New engine for boat

[Ray T]

We are thinking of replacing our rattly aging Lister Petter LPWS3 for a Beta 38

 

Has anyone any experience with a Beta 38 please.

[bag 'o' bones]

We are thinking of replacing our rattly aging Lister Petter LPWS3 for a Beta 38

 

Has anyone any experience with a Beta 38 please.

 

It starts, it stops. Typical Japanese industrail engine - very efficient but pretty bland compared with the older style engines. My only gripe is the oil filter is very close to one of the water pipes which makes getting the filter wrench in a bit awkward.

[mrsmelly]

We are thinking of replacing our rattly aging Lister Petter LPWS3 for a Beta 38

 

Has anyone any experience with a Beta 38 please.

 

 

Had a new beta 38 on a new boat I had a few years ago they do what they say on the tin which is push and stop the boat very quietly, use no oil and are brill. I have a beta 43 on my present boat, again uses no oil, starts first time is quiet and economical if that comes into it ? In short BUY ONE

[blodger]

Just interested to know how aged and rattling since I think the LPWS3's are pretty good & economical as the owner of one though I would have preferred the 4 cyl (57' boat). Mine's about 1990 vintage and at just above tickover people do not hear me approaching!

Is there no point in having it recond?

[Rojo]

Just interested to know how aged and rattling since I think the LPWS3's are pretty good & economical as the owner of one though I would have preferred the 4 cyl (57' boat). Mine's about 1990 vintage and at just above tickover people do not hear me approaching!

Is there no point in having it recond?

We too have a LPWS3, and are very pleased with it. If the OP changes to a Beta will this also require a gearbox change?

[Ray T]

The engine and gearbox were not particularly well looked after by previous owners.

 

The engine is 1997 vintage and has run approx 2000 hours.

 

I changed the gearbox oil a month ago and it smelt bitter and had a slimy feel to it.

 

Whether we change the engine or not I think we will need a new gear box. The current 'box is a PRM Delta, its direct replacement is a PRM 150.

 

When in forward gear there is a speed related cyclical drumming which does not happen in reverse.

 

Noise can be heard here for those interested!

 

 

I know that being a 3 cylinder engine the LPWS3 will never be the smoothest of engines but it vibrates quite annoyingly at just above tick over until to about 2mph.

 

The engine mounts were changed two weeks ago.

 

Thank you for replies so far.

Edited August 30, 2010 by Ray T

[OldGoat]

The engine and gearbox were not particularly well looked after by previous owners.

 

The engine is 1997 vintage and has run approx 2000 hours.

 

I changed the gearbox oil a month ago and it smelt bitter and had a slimy feel to it.

 

Whether we change the engine or not I think we will need a new gear box. The current 'box is a PRM Delta, its direct replacement is a PRM 150.

 

When in forward gear there is a speed related cyclical drumming which does not happen in reverse.

 

Noise can be heard here for those interested!

 

 

I know that being a 3 cylinder engine the LPWS3 will never be the smoothest of engines but it vibrates quite annoyingly at just above tick over until to about 2mph.

 

The engine mounts were changed two weeks ago.

 

Thank you for replies so far.

I've never been fond of later Listers - seemed to be a bit smokey for me.

However, 2000 hours is (should be) nothing for an industrial engine (which is what it is).

The PRM gearbox is good, and unless it is failing should last "forever" - especially as it is not over stressed in canal use.

Change them both if it worries you. Beta four cylinder engines are lovely and said to be good for 10-15,000 hours PROVIDED that you are kind to them, that means changing the oil and ALL filters at least once a year or 250 hours if you boat a lot.

The reason is the oil gets contaminated and the additives degrade with use.

The Betas have PRM boxes pretty well as standard - just tell them when ordering.

BTW engine mounts may be different if you change the engine, but no problem - tell Beta what's being replaced and they'll supply the correct rails etc. They'll also move components around (oil filter etc) if you specify what you want.

 

Sorted!

Edited August 31, 2010 by OldGoat

[Alan Saunders]

When in forward gear there is a speed related cyclical drumming which does not happen in reverse. Noise can be heard here for those interested!

 

I had a 'cyclical drumming' but it was not 'clattery' like your sound track. The shaft was loose in the attachment to the flexible drive, the key was worn to half its original width. A new piece of key-steel, a shim cut from a tin can and three new set-screws fixed that problem. I have about ten feet of solid shaft supported by two intermediate bearings. Straightening the shaft between the bearings and re-setting the bearimgs removed the minor remaining NVH.

 

Alan

[n.b.Goldie]

We are thinking of replacing our rattly aging Lister Petter LPWS3 for a Beta 38

 

Has anyone any experience with a Beta 38 please.

 

 

In my previous boat I replaced a clapped out BMC1500 with a new Beta 38+ PRM150 'box. I ran the Beta for about 5 years and put over 2000 hours on it and it never missed a beat. I can wholeheartedly recommend them.

 

My present little ship has a Lister LPWS3 with just over 3500 hours and it has begun to chuck oil out with a vengeance. I agree about the vibration, mine is similar and I too have a PRM Delta 'box. At the risk of offending Mr.Baldock I have to say that IMHO the Beta is a superior product.

 

However, you say your motor has 2000 hours on it. This seems not very much to qualify as 'clapped out'. Lister say a rebuild is required at 6000 hours and Martyn Pitman (forum member) of Marine Power Services has told me that he has rebuilt a few at 4000 hours so I would have thought you should get a bit more out of it yet. Does yours start easily, lose oil or smoke much, other than at startup? If not then there is not much wrong with it.

 

Having listened to your video it sounds to me like the source of the noise might be the gearbox, driveplate or stern tube rather than the engine i.e. transmission noise not motor noise. Do you have a 'plummer block' bearing, these can fail and if you have one 'on the way out' it might be your sound source. I think I would want to be sure before I dumped a 'sound motor'. I would hate for you to put in a new Beta and still have the noise!

 

You know your wallet better than me and whilst I concur that the Beta would be good it will be expensive. I recently asked Martyn how much for a complete rebuild for my LPWS3 and he said about £1200 which is considerably cheaper than a new Beta especially when the engine mountings and transmission couplings will have to be changed. If you have your motor rebuilt and change your Delta 'box for a 150 at about £800 you will still be well under half the price of a Beta 38+'box.

 

Hard choice I know but in the final analysis if I had the readies I would 'go Beta+PRM150' and have it all renewed inc. stern tube and shaft then it'll probably outlast you.

 

Ho Hum

 

Good Luck

 

Ditchdabbler

[Ray T]

Thank you for the suggestions.

 

The drive plate was changed October last year so I know that is not the cause of the noise.

 

The engine does not use excessive oil, yet!!

 

When the mechanic changed the engine mounts he disconnected the prop shaft at the rubbery dough-nut "thing" and said there was some but not excessive play in the plummer block.

 

Also as mentioned before the noise is not apparent in reverse.

 

The vibration is also absent when the engine is reved in neutral.

 

The boat actually sat "for sale" for approx 4 years at the brokerage before we bought her, so this may not have helped.

 

We have already priced a Beta38 + a PRM 150 and it is within the price we are willing to spend but I don't want to dump the Lister if there is still life in it.

 

Ditchdabbler, we looked at Goldie when she was for sale at Whilton when we were looking for a boat and were quite impressed by her.

 

We did not have the money at the time however to buy her.

 

As they say the rest is history.

[n.b.Goldie]

Thank you for the suggestions.

 

The drive plate was changed October last year so I know that is not the cause of the noise.

 

The engine does not use excessive oil, yet!!

 

When the mechanic changed the engine mounts he disconnected the prop shaft at the rubbery dough-nut "thing" and said there was some but not excessive play in the plummer block.

 

Also as mentioned before the noise is not apparent in reverse.

 

The vibration is also absent when the engine is reved in neutral.

The boat actually sat "for sale" for approx 4 years at the brokerage before we bought her, so this may not have helped.

 

We have already priced a Beta38 + a PRM 150 and it is within the price we are willing to spend but I don't want to dump the Lister if there is still life in it.

 

Ditchdabbler, we looked at Goldie when she was for sale at Whilton when we were looking for a boat and were quite impressed by her.

 

We did not have the money at the time however to buy her.

 

As they say the rest is history.

 

 

Gearbox.............IMHO

[martyn 1]

Thank you for the suggestions.

 

The drive plate was changed October last year so I know that is not the cause of the noise.

 

The engine does not use excessive oil, yet!!

 

When the mechanic changed the engine mounts he disconnected the prop shaft at the rubbery dough-nut "thing" and said there was some but not excessive play in the plummer block.

 

Also as mentioned before the noise is not apparent in reverse.

 

The vibration is also absent when the engine is reved in neutral.

 

The boat actually sat "for sale" for approx 4 years at the brokerage before we bought her, so this may not have helped.

 

We have already priced a Beta38 + a PRM 150 and it is within the price we are willing to spend but I don't want to dump the Lister if there is still life in it.

 

Ditchdabbler, we looked at Goldie when she was for sale at Whilton when we were looking for a boat and were quite impressed by her.

 

We did not have the money at the time however to buy her.

 

As they say the rest is history.

 

 

IMO and im biased as I would fit a lister/british engine over anything else if I had the choice. also after working on many LPW and LPWS's, at 2000 hrs your engine will be far from in need of replacement even if it has been stood/poorly maintained. Also it would be cheaper to have the engine rebuilt than go to the expense of a new beta, by the time you have factored in changing prop shaft arrangement, possibly prop, engine mounts, pipework etc etc to fit the new engine.

 

If your not getting the vibration in neutral then its gearbox or drive train through to the prop not the engine at fault. I would be looking at play in the propshaft bearings and the internals of the gearbox.

 

Martyn

[n.b.Goldie]

If you do decide to dump your Lister, I would be interested in buying it for a spare. Let me know by PM or email how much you would want for it.

 

Ditchdabbler

[nb Innisfree]

Probably a bit obvious but have you done an oil change? These engines have hydraulic cam followers and need an oil change every 100 hours, maybe the oil has gone a bit iffy having stood for so long. Change it when engine is hot.

[Ray T]

Probably a bit obvious but have you done an oil change? These engines have hydraulic cam followers and need an oil change every 100 hours, maybe the oil has gone a bit iffy having stood for so long. Change it when engine is hot.

Thanks for the advice. I have been changing the oil every 200 hours to date so I will now do it every 100 hours. At the last oil change the oil wasn't black.

[Chris-B]

We are thinking of replacing our rattly aging Lister Petter LPWS3 for a Beta 38

 

Has anyone any experience with a Beta 38 please.

 

WHY ?

Talk to me about a core engine package with a full 5 year warranty !

Chris

[churchward]

We are thinking of replacing our rattly aging Lister Petter LPWS3 for a Beta 38

 

Has anyone any experience with a Beta 38 please.

In my experience the Beta is a good example of the modern kind of engines in use in narrowboats. Our boat has one and is 15 years old it was called a BV1505 at the time but is essentially the same. It runs well, is reasonably quiet and service intervals are 250 hours for oil and 750 for fuel filters. I have only owned the boat the last 3 years so I can't say how many hours it has done in total but I suspect not a huge amount but it has been well looked after.

 

Nothing much wrong with LPWS3's either and it may be cheaper to find a cure for it. Mind you I am not keen on oil servicing intervals of 100 hours.

[Chris-B]

In my experience the Beta is a good example of the modern kind of engines in use in narrowboats. Our boat has one and is 15 years old it was called a BV1505 at the time but is essentially the same. It runs well, is reasonably quiet and service intervals are 250 hours for oil and 750 for fuel filters. I have only owned the boat the last 3 years so I can't say how many hours it has done in total but I suspect not a huge amount but it has been well looked after.

 

Nothing much wrong with LPWS3's either and it may be cheaper to find a cure for it. Mind you I am not keen on oil servicing intervals of 100 hours.

 

 

The current versions have a 250 hour service interval as standard !

 

Chris

 

 

[churchward]

The current versions have a 250 hour service interval as standard !

 

Chris

Ah that's good to know, folk have always said to me that it is 100 hours.

[Chris-B]

Ah that's good to know, folk have always said to me that it is 100 hours.

 

The 400 series which has been in production for a while has a 250 hour service interval, and is probably now the cheapest engine in its class to service with genuine parts

we also offer a 20% discount on bulk filters and oil with all new engine to further reduce the running cost during the 5 year warranty period

 

As with most things it is best to talk to an expert rather than relying on old or out of date information

regards

Chris

[n.b.Goldie]

The 400 series which has been in production for a while has a 250 hour service interval, and is probably now the cheapest engine in its class to service with genuine parts

we also offer a 20% discount on bulk filters and oil with all new engine to further reduce the running cost during the 5 year warranty period

 

As with most things it is best to talk to an expert rather than relying on old or out of date information

regards

Chris

 

Is my motor a 400 series? Its serial no. is 4600065LPWS3A047. A 250 hour service interval sounds great to me. How do the 400 series motors differ from the previous type?

[Keith Mason]

Hi, if you haven't done anything yet give John a ring at Sleeman and Hawken 01626 778266,or send an email, keith@sleeman-hawken.co.uk and I will see he gets it, he will be able to advise whether to buy new or repair.

Keith Mason

[Chris-B]

There you go .. you have a choice of Two Lister distributors to choose from..

One can proudly say that all the directors and employees own canal boats !

 

Chris

 

( Nice to see you on here Keith )

 

Is my motor a 400 series? Its serial no. is 4600065LPWS3A047. A 250 hour service interval sounds great to me. How do the 400 series motors differ from the previous type?

Yours is a 1996 year build 47, definitely not a 400 series....

there have been some major improvements made to the Alpha range since this time

and with the 3 cylinder range we can also offer a rail mounting system to help reduce any vibration

Chris

Edited September 28, 2010 by Baldock

[Athy]

Baldock, I just had a look at the Lister Petter site and found the "PH2 Classic". This looks very much like the old Petter PH2 which I had in my first boat. When did Lister reintroduce this model? Does it come in a marinised variant?

[Chris-B]

Baldock, I just had a look at the Lister Petter site and found the "PH2 Classic". This looks very much like the old Petter PH2 which I had in my first boat. When did Lister reintroduce this model? Does it come in a marinised variant?

 

We have not investigated the PH2 Classic as a marinised engine yet Athy, at present the Alpha/Canalstar and TR range keep us busy enough

Chris