Composting Lavatoirs

[Ex- Member]

I realise that some of you will ignore what I write since I import and sell both Air Head and Separett composting toilets, but for those of you who are interested I will try to be honest and frank about these toilets as possible as there has been an aweful lot of balderdash on here and I do have over 20 years experience selling (and using) them.

 

Using any other sort of toilet creates undesirable waste products which have to be treated by even more harmful chemicals to make them safe. They also have a tendency to smell, either of waste or of the toilet fluid added. Composting toilets create useful products from human waste without unpleasant smells. OK, one person using a composting toilet isn't going to save the planet, but every little helps. Most people switching to a composting toilet do so either because they have a problem with their existing toilet or because they consider it will save them money. Environmental concerns tend to be lower down the priorities.

 

Purchase price and size have been the two main negative points with these toilets, but in recent years the advent of the Air Head and Separett toilets have enabled both of these to be reduced. I am now selling more than one a week and have had glowing reports from users, many of whom had previously despaired of finding a toilet they were happy with.

 

No toilet is perfect, but I consider that these toilets offer a lot more benefits than disadvantages. Rather than say any more about them here I will just say that if anyone is interested in learning more about them they can PM me or see me at the Crick Boat Show.

 

but for those of you who are interested I will try to be honest and frank about these toilets as possible as there has been an aweful lot of balderdash on here

 

 

 

Have to agree, we've been using one for over 6 years and the toilet has been the very least of our boaty problems over that time. Although we don't use your particular system, having looked it up on the net, It seems a very reasonable and sensible solution to me, in fact if your system was available when we purchased our Sun-Mar We might well have gone for it based on cost alone, but the smaller size would have been a big selling point plus as well.

 

I recall it cost us over a grand, but never having to spend a single penny on pump out costs, I wonder how much that would have cost over 6 years, let alone the cost of chemicals to overcome smells from certain other toilet systems and repairs to many of those systems that seem to break down quite regularly going by the amount of posts that arise on this forum alone regarding toilet waste problems, seals pumps leaks etc.

 

Compost toilets are a viable solution for a boat, no doubt about it.

[Nose Miner]

Rather than spending £1000 on a fancy compost loo that eats electricity as well as poo, why not buy something cheap and basic like an Elsan Bristol, which is cheap and cheerful and consists of a sealable bucket in a casing. Use in the normal manner, but instead of water and chemicals you add a handful of sawdust with every dump! When full, you empty contents into a compost bin.

 

Alternatively you can use compost worms, which eat half their body weight in poo every day. A kilo of worms will pretty much eat everything that two people can feed them. Worms will process the poo in half the time of traditional composting toilets.

 

I'm tempted to put a sign up in the window saying "Worms Eat My Poo" - that should start some interesting bankside conversations!

[Ex- Member]

Rather than spending £1000 on a fancy compost loo that eats electricity as well as poo, why not buy something cheap and basic like an Elsan Bristol, which is cheap and cheerful and consists of a sealable bucket in a casing. Use in the normal manner, but instead of water and chemicals you add a handful of sawdust with every dump! When full, you empty contents into a compost bin.

 

Alternatively you can use compost worms, which eat half their body weight in poo every day. A kilo of worms will pretty much eat everything that two people can feed them. Worms will process the poo in half the time of traditional composting toilets.

 

I'm tempted to put a sign up in the window saying "Worms Eat My Poo" - that should start some interesting bankside conversations!

 

Rather than spending £1000 on a fancy compost loo that eats electricity

 

 

Not all composting loo's eat electricity, some have an option to do so which speeds up the composting process, ours is Non Electric NE although I have a fitted a 4 inch comp fan 0.1 amp to help increase air flow and evaporate liquids.

 

The worm toilets are interesting though, and I've heard they can consume a lot of waste, do you have a worm toilet on a boat???

Also the Bristol toilet, it's not easy to find compost bins on the canal, or do you have compost bins somewhere on the boat?

[Nose Miner]

Mine is made from the bucket out of an old Elsan Bristol, around which I have built a tasteful oak cabinet, with oak toilet seat on top. There is a small chimney from the cabinet, which draws a fair bit of air through the cabinet, keeping moisture levels down. The worms I use are tiger worms from an angling outlet.

 

I have three buckets, which I use in rotation, and each takes about a month to fill. So, as the oldest one is emptied in a suitable bit of hedgerow it becomes the next one to be filled. If you are going to use worms, you do have to look after their interests - "no worms are harmed in the disposal of this poo!" They need fairly stable temperatures, dark and moist, but not wet, conditions - so I'm afraid you would have to wee somewhere else. I have no problem with this, but ladies tell me they can't do one without the other. I say, work on your pelvic floor exercises!

 

Worms are fussy about what else you put in too. I find that they are fine with softwood shavings, but oak shavings does them no good at all. They do like a layer of damp newspaper every so often as they like to sleep there.

 

The slightly yucky factor with worms is that it makes no sense to keep buying new worms, so you have to recover your worms from the compost before you chuck it.

[saltysplash]

Mine is made from the bucket out of an old Elsan Bristol, around which I have built a tasteful oak cabinet, with oak toilet seat on top. There is a small chimney from the cabinet, which draws a fair bit of air through the cabinet, keeping moisture levels down. The worms I use are tiger worms from an angling outlet.

 

I have three buckets, which I use in rotation, and each takes about a month to fill. So, as the oldest one is emptied in a suitable bit of hedgerow it becomes the next one to be filled. If you are going to use worms, you do have to look after their interests - "no worms are harmed in the disposal of this poo!" They need fairly stable temperatures, dark and moist, but not wet, conditions - so I'm afraid you would have to wee somewhere else. I have no problem with this, but ladies tell me they can't do one without the other. I say, work on your pelvic floor exercises!

 

Worms are fussy about what else you put in too. I find that they are fine with softwood shavings, but oak shavings does them no good at all. They do like a layer of damp newspaper every so often as they like to sleep there.

 

The slightly yucky factor with worms is that it makes no sense to keep buying new worms, so you have to recover your worms from the compost before you chuck it.

 

 

A fascinating read but you have just convinced me to stick with my thetford cassette

[mrsmelly]

On 1/4/2006 at 23:13, Moley said:

So you carry around a bucket of sh*t for 12 months and have a second chimney wafting the aroma of urine wherever you go, or am I missing something?

 

If you 'bucket and chuckit', don't Severn Trent or whoever do all this for you?

 

Well I ain't coming anywhere near your boat, whatever malt whiskies you've got onboard!

 

Also, what's the problem with peat? Surely it's about as organic as you can get, and has been dug for millennia.

 

I'm all for recycling, and do my bit, but what's this all about? Please enlighten us.

Here ya go folks its 2017..................just thought I would ressurect this old thread from ELEVEN years ago............when will they ever learn..........still trying to sell the damn things to us boaters................THEY DONT BLOOMIN MAKE SENSE .......................Jeeesus  oh and  dont forget incinerating  bogs ...........

[Guest]

Light the bloo touch paper and stand back ................... 

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, Meanderingviking said:

Light the bloo touch paper and stand back ................... 

True though innitt

[peterboat]

Tim I could never go back to cassette or pump out loos tried em both and they are poo

[tomsk]

I think it is important to remember that 'composting' toilets have no place on a 'continuously cruising' craft. They are quite literally crap and will require you to cart around boxes and boxes of 'composting' defecate prior to dumping the contents in the cut or under a hedge in desperation. Don't do it.

 

[mrsmelly]

29 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Tim I could never go back to cassette or pump out loos tried em both and they are poo

So you like storing your Poo now then Peter 

[peterboat]

Yes 6 years of it now the bathtub will have one as well, I have ripped out the pumpout as they are so crap and wouldnt entertain a cassette, I mean  fancy having to carry around all that liquid shit until you find somewhere to dump it [for some a hedge bottom]

At least the composting loo can do up to 3 months so it just goes in my mates composter when I get back where the worms make short work of it

[tomsk]

2 hours ago, peterboat said:

Yes 6 years of it now the bathtub will have one as well, I have ripped out the pumpout as they are so crap and wouldnt entertain a cassette, I mean  fancy having to carry around all that liquid shit until you find somewhere to dump it [for some a hedge bottom]

At least the composting loo can do up to 3 months so it just goes in my mates composter when I get back where the worms make short work of it

I think that if you have access to 'proper' bankside composting facilities then a composting toilet is just a matter of personal choice. No more no less.

Composting toilets are in no way suitable for Continuously Cruising craft under any circumstances however.

 

[peterboat]

4 minutes ago, tomsk said:

I think that if you have access to 'proper' bankside composting facilities then a composting toilet is just a matter of personal choice. No more no less.

Composting toilets are in no way suitable for Continuously Cruising craft under any circumstances however.

 

Thats only your thoughts plenty of people do it I have buried in a farmers field in the past he was ok about it just called it crop food he wouldtn have taken it if was a cassette however because of the blue

Edited July 12, 2017 by peterboat

[tomsk]

1 minute ago, peterboat said:

Thats only your thoughts plenty of people do it I have buried in a farmers field in the past he was ok about it just called it crop food

That is not composting Peter, that is properly called 'burying shit'.

[peterboat]

3 minutes ago, tomsk said:

That is not composting Peter, that is properly called 'burying shit'.

Have you ever seen one never mind used one? I use sawdust and some bio powder which starts the process [it could be a con but it says it aids the breaking down process] Also I have left one of Taffs shits and after 3 months it had gone broken down so something must happen

[tomsk]

19 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Have you ever seen one never mind used one? I use sawdust and some bio powder which starts the process [it could be a con but it says it aids the breaking down process] Also I have left one of Taffs shits and after 3 months it had gone broken down so something must happen

Yes Peter, I have done both and am a strong supporter of properly managed composting toilets.

Digging a hole and burying shit is just that, it is emphatically NOT composting.

A Continuous Cruising boat is unable to afford the space for the time required to properly compost their 'Doings' in my view.

If you are not able to properly compost your bum-nuggets then why would you deploy a composting bog?

Might as well throw them down an Elsan, which I strongly suspect many do.

 

[mross]

Rapid, hot composting can be complete in three weeks but not if you are continually topping up.  I suppose you could have a duplex arrangement and change 'seats' every three weeks?

[tomsk]

2 hours ago, mross said:

Rapid, hot composting can be complete in three weeks but not if you are continually topping up.  I suppose you could have a duplex arrangement and change 'seats' every three weeks?

What a silly idea.

[Bargebuilder]

I'm new to this forum lark, but you guys seem to be having so much fun with this topic, I thought that I might dare to join in.

For background, I am a long term live-aboard together with my wife and until last year we struggled to live with a macerator toilet. We 'splashed out' on the very pricey Tecma Silence as fitted to many of the world's super-yachts, simply because it was one area where only the best will do and we definitely didn't want problems. Tecma boast an unblockable system which it certainly isn't and despite using the very best butyl lined flexible hose and impervious solvent-weld fixed pipework, after 4 years of daily use, it stinks! We clean it thoroughly almost every day, flushing it with warm soapy water, but it doesn't resolve the odour problem. This model of toilet also has a tiny air bleed pipe near the macerator chamber so that once evacuated by the pump it then re-fills with clean 'flush' water so that the pump is primed for next time. You guessed it, this little tube gets blocked regularly with 'you know what', the chamber doesn't  re-fill, the pump/macerator doesn't prime and the toilet bowl refuses to evacuate. One has to empty the bowl manually (use your imagination), unbolt the toilet, tip it on its side, remove the hoses, unblock the mess and re-assemble; nice! 

Even if you have found a toilet that never blocks (and I doubt it), I refuse to believe that your toilet/hoses/pipework don't smell at all and if they don't now, they surely will at some point. In addition, we carried around large volumes of liquidised sewage and obviously that 'black' tank needs a vent to stop it exploding and you don't want to get near that vent; believe me!

What about the costs: the best part of £1000 for the toilet, several hundred for the custom built 'black' tank, various pipes, hoses, electric cabling, skin fittings etc, totalling north of £1500, then factoring in the cost of pump-out, repairs, spare macerator pump, it is not a cheap system. If it was reliable and pleasant it would be a price worth paying, but for so many reasons it wasn't.

Then, a good live-aboard friend of mine introduced me to his 'dessicating toilet' This is not a new product, but simply a composting toilet that doesn't compost fully, and for him, over four years of continuous use, it works faultlessly and is totally without odour. I have been in his bathroom and I can confirm that his 'little room' is fragrant, whereas mine is most definitely not. 

Like me, for many years he tolerated the blockages and smells of his Vetus macerator toilet, so out of desperation, he went over to composting and hasn't looked back.

The secret, as many have said before, is to separate the liquids from the solids, by the use of a urine separator, the solids being collected to decompose and dry out in a plastic bucket. This process reduces the volume and weight of the solids to around 10-15% of its original. For the sceptics, I invite you to think about those little dessicated turds that one used to find on pavements before the time when dog owners carried their dogs bowel movements with them like little designer handbags. Those dried out, biscuit dry droppings had no smell whatever and could be kicked without the risk of messing ones shoes into the gutter: You get the idea? 

Although not truly compost, because he adds no sawdust, peat or activator and he doesn't allow the bucket to stand for another 3 months, the contents of the bucket are dessicated and not unpleasant and can be disposed of in many ways that have already been discussed. 

I should add that, although possibly distasteful, it is perfectly legal to dispose of human waste with household rubbish. I'm not suggesting that I do or that anyone should, but if there were to be no better option, you most certainly are permitted to. I quote from the directive of a local borough council: 

“These changes have been made to bring the collection of these waste types in line with similar wastes such as nappies that have always been collected via the residential waste stream. It is considered safe for householders to dispose of their own hygiene waste, such as nappies, incontinence pads and dressings via their residential waste collection service" 

This extract was to confirm that soiled nappies and soiled pads of adults who suffer double incontinence should placed in ones domestic wheelie bin. The dessicated, crumbly material of which I am talking would be much more pleasant than this raw faecal matter. Any such material should, of course, be double wrapped.

As I said though, there are many other ways to hygienically dispose of your waste without resorting to binning it.

The liquid element can be collected in a large bottle, or if you are in a permitted area, simply drained overboard. My friend has his drain into his grey water reception tank where it is mixed with water from his shower, sink, hand basin and washing machine before it is pumped overboard quite legally. He needs to empty his bucket every 10 to 12 weeks and this he returns to 'nature'.

The loo itself is inexpensive to make: Less than £100 for the separator, bucket, toilet seat, tubing, computer fan with ducting and an airtight box into which everything goes. The whole thing needn't be much larger than the toilet seat or the bucket, whichever is larger. The box can a simple painted plywood affair, or maybe tongue and groove pine or even very posh varnished oak, depending on your taste and budget. I won't go into the construction details because they do it so well at Littlehouse.co.uk.

I now use the above system and it certainly doesn't smell and it simply can't block or jam. There is no maintenance apart from giving the bucket a quarter turn once a month to even things out a little and giving the separator a wipe round with a disinfectant wipe when it needs it. I line the bucket with two bin liners before use so that the contents can be safely lifted out and securely sealed before carrying off the boat. 

When I think of the smells and disgusting maintenance associated with my old Tecma and my friends Vetus and think about the money wasted on setup, maintenance and pump-out, I really wish that I had considered the composting route when I first commissioned the boat.

I can't understand how those who dismiss separator toilets as rubbish can have actually lived with one: They are a simple diy project to make and foolproof to operate. They are pleasant and odour free to use and almost zero maintenance. It is a shame that such negative comments might be putting people off from taking the plunge and freeing themselves of the undoubted problems associated with macerator toilets, the process of pumping out, or the chore of lugging heavy cassettes of sewage around every few days. 

Those with 'green' concerns might consider that dessicated poo is safe and hygienic to bury or further compost and urine is almost sterile wherever you pour it. Cassette sewage often has 'blue' chemicals added to it making it toxic to the environment and the sewage storage tanks into which pump outs often go are taken away by polluting diesel sewage tankers. 

Where our live-aboards are moored, to start with all 11 boats had either macerator or cassette toilets. First one went over to composting and now there are four of us as the good feedback is spreading: Perhaps this trend will continue.

Composting/dessicating toilets won't be for everyone, but for some they are a revelation, making life on board more pleasant. I say give it a try: It won't cost much to set up and you may be glad you didn't listen to the doubters.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mrsmelly]

Well Bargebuilder I actualy read your essay because as you took the time to type it I thought I would bother to read it which I don't normaly do for posts that long. A sensible if long post that actualy makes sense. Now I know why its called " dessicated coconut " lol. Fair play to you but I remain totally unconvinced. These toilets have been around for donkeys years and are still a minute percentage of fitments for a good reason, whatever that may be. I have a sani macerator, its all now ten years old and there is absolutely no kind of smell ever anywhere in the boat  including at the holding tank or pipes. It only ever gets miffed if the wrong stuff is put into it but has not yet jammed and always pumps out easily. There is a big stink when being emptied for two minutes outside the boat as with nearly all other pumpout systems. My preference is cassette or porta bog actualy. Nowt to go wrong realy and quick and easy. One problem is the occasional visitors especialy my daughters would be aghast lol as my macerator flushes and looks like a proper domestic household bog heaven knows how ( especialy the blonde one ) would react!!

[haggis]

Interesting article but like MRSMELLY we have never had a smelly loo on a boat. We did once moor along side a boat with a composting loo though and the smell from the loo vent was absolutely vile.

I note that the extract from the local authority guideline doesn't actually mention bagged s*** .  And I still don't think it is a very considerate to your fellow human beings to put bagged s*** in a wheelie bin. What if the bag bursts when something heavy lands on top of it? what if it spills out on top of the operative who is emptying the bin? 

One thing you don't mention is what you do with used loo paper? Does it go in with the s*** or do you, as they do in Greece, put it in a container in the loo? Another disgusting habit.

I'll stick with our pump out loo and cassette. Each to his own but  I hope I never have to use a wheelie bin which is being used for s*** by several boaters. 

haggis

[Bargebuilder]

Hi Mr. Smelly and Haggis,

I know why composting isn't popular, it's the thought of what is in the bucket beneath you, but you very soon forget that. The ladies are usually difficult to convince, but those that I know that have tried it are now converted.

I certainly concede that guests are very reluctant to use it: We keep a cassette toilet on board for visitors, but haven't had to deploy it yet. 

Like you, I don't like the idea of putting the 'compost' into a bin, but the article was from a local authority who was insisting that bagged raw faeces should be put into domestic bins, it having withdrawn the special collection service that it used to provide before the 'cuts'. They were, in fact, insisting that this should be done. There are many more pleasant ways of disposing of your dessicated poo without having to annoy the bin men. I should state though, that there is a world of difference between the gooey stinking mess in a soiled nappy and a bag of crumbly dessicated poo.

The loo paper goes into a tiny flip-top bin that is lined with a scented nappy sac. These are a fraction of a penny each and can be tied off and binned daily and contribute no nasty niffs to the room at all.

Disgust and revoltion are emotions not always based on fact or reality. You and I might be revolted by eating sheep's eyes, but some may relish them as a delicacy. Our views on keeping poo on board dry and crumbly in a bucket or as a liquidised sewage soup might be different, but that is fine. 

Your 'domestic' type loo is more socially acceptable. We both have loos that we are convinced don't smell. Your macerator loo with associated equipment costs vastly more than a diy composting toilet. There are maintenance costs and pump-out costs associated with macerator toilets and virtually none with a composter. You don't like the idea of composting, but I don't find it in the least disgusting, no worse than spreading horse manure on the veg patch.

 

 

 

 

[peterboat]

Another person converted to the world of composting loos. As I have said before my new boat will have one and I have ripped out the pump out to do it. After 6 years of composting I could not face going back to pump out or cassette

Edited July 31, 2017 by peterboat

[blackrose]

I will never cease to be amazed by the way in which some people on this forum pontificate and tell others what sort of toilet they should or shouldn't have! It's different strokes for different folks and different types of boat toilet will suit different people's circumstances better than other types.

JUST LIKE BOATS THEMSELVES, ALL BOAT TOILETS ARE A COMPROMISE!

If one doesn't understand that concept then perhaps one doesn't know as much about boats as one thinks! 

As for myself, I bought a composting loo and found that the build quality just wasn't good enough to install on my boat so I sent it back for a refund. After 12 years I've completely overhauled my Vacuflush cassette toilet, bought 2 new cassettes and it's now working perfectly. It's not a perfect system but it doesn't smell and I haven't found anything better (for me).