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Residential moorings in London - now up for auction


Dekazer

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Hallo all,

 

I'm a little unsure about something. BW have opened auctions on some available berths at a residential marina in West London. On the first advert is says 'this is the first of three vacancies available at this site', but there are at least 10 empty berths at the moment.

 

Might this not affect potential bidders' perception of supply, and therefore the amount they are willing to bid to win one? Any thoughts?

 

I'll be interested to see what they go for, as the current mooring prices paid by people living there range from £5500 to £9250 a year.

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Hallo all,

 

I'm a little unsure about something. BW have opened auctions on some available berths at a residential marina in West London. On the first advert is says 'this is the first of three vacancies available at this site', but there are at least 10 empty berths at the moment.

 

Might this not affect potential bidders' perception of supply, and therefore the amount they are willing to bid to win one? Any thoughts?

 

I'll be interested to see what they go for, as the current mooring prices paid by people living there range from £5500 to £9250 a year.

BW need to lease their moorings for the maximum income possible, of course.

They may well have determined (whether they are right or wrong is another issue) that auctioning them off in small blocks will help them maximise their income

 

OR: (for example) - they may be 'testing the market' to see what price these three achieve before they decide what guide price (or minimum price) they will levy upon the remaining moorings . .

 

Either way, there is nothing you have mentioned that would suggest that BW are flouting the rules of advertising . . . .

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Hallo all,

 

I'm a little unsure about something. BW have opened auctions on some available berths at a residential marina in West London. On the first advert is says 'this is the first of three vacancies available at this site', but there are at least 10 empty berths at the moment.

 

Might this not affect potential bidders' perception of supply, and therefore the amount they are willing to bid to win one? Any thoughts?

 

I'll be interested to see what they go for, as the current mooring prices paid by people living there range from £5500 to £9250 a year.

 

So will I, my friends used to moor at that site but there is no parking for boaters, and not great public transport, (miles to tube/train), so they moved. It's alot to pay if you can't park your car.

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That modern one with the little basin and the flats surrounding it - if you're coming from London, it is on the offside, just before the park that is before Willowtree. I agree about the spaces - we have plenty up here on the Lee as well, but some are being taken by boats from Hazelmere (Before Waltham Town Lock), because it is closing. Being infilled and redeveloped, apparently.

Edited by Lady Muck
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Which Marina are we talking about here? I know there are a few of empty slots at Brentford Island (above the Gauging Locks).

 

I assume that it is engineers wharf, agree with Lady Muck, by London standards they are in the middle of nowhere.

 

http://www.waterscape.com/media/documents/37

 

Tim

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I assume that it is engineers wharf, agree with Lady Muck, by London standards they are in the middle of nowhere.

 

http://www.waterscape.com/media/documents/37

 

Tim

 

It's actually where we live at the moment, and it is a tad remote :lol: 20 min walk to tube (zone 5) and train, although it's then easy into central. And there is a night bus, without which I wouldn't have even considered moving there!

 

As for parking, it's on street, and we always manage to park our 2 bikes and 2 cars, although there are plans to introduce double yellow lines and parking restructions all over the place, so it may reduce.

 

It's extremely friendly, but like a ghost town at the moment - loads of moorers have left over the last few months. One for family reasons (selling boat), 2 for cost, several for relocation around the country or out towards the countryside, another couple found alternative moorings in East London. I can recommend it as a place to live, for the friendliness and supportive neighbours - a good place for newbies. :lol:

 

I don't think I thought BW were breaking any rules - although it seems a bit odd. There have been spaces for so long BW must have lost an awful lot of predicted revenue from the site.

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I'll be interested to see what they go for, as the current mooring prices paid by people living there range from £5500 to £9250 a year.

 

 

The bidding system seems like an "f*%$ing " joke to me. Thats twice as much! Surely this system does not work for BW or their customers???

 

Why at least is the bidding system not more open like an ebay style???

 

I see these moorings a bit like council properties, they are in limited suply and they are part of our common wealth... These should not be auctioned off to the wealthiest bidder, BW aint Barrat homes or something.

 

There is plenty of private marinas however if people want that kinda service.

 

I think an allocation system based on points built up over the period you have been waiting is the best bet and then they relase the moorings every two weeks on a website.

 

The person with the higest points and is willing to pay the price gets the moorings.

 

If a moorigdot go on the first round of bidding, they drop the price by 15% and then place it back for bidding in the next two weeks.

 

1 point per month you are waiting

BW workers get an aditional 20 points automatically

People who work close to the mooring get 10 extra points

Disabled people get an extra 30 points as they are in greater need of a permament base etc

 

 

Or something like that

Edited by spacecactus
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The bidding system seems like an "f*%$ing " joke to me.

 

It is. If anything it's worse, but some boaters managed to figure out what is going on and play it and win, getting the mooring at reserve.

 

It's the delay in moorings being advertised - we've had ones available for six months, but the old moorers left an absolute tip behind, they've only just been cleared for reletting. BW seems very short staffed to me, getting anything done (like reletting a berth) seems to take ages.

 

ETA moorings are NOT like council houses, BW are obliged to charge the going rate. If there is a private mooring nearby, they have to charge same or similar. I think you'll find that the private moorings nearby go for about the same rate. Ditto where we are, our moorings are pegged with Springfield marinas rate. There is a moorings pricing document that comes out every year which explains how the prices are set.

Edited by Lady Muck
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It's common place for BW to auction off only certain moorings at spots where there are several/more vacancies - you often see

 

'this is the first of x mooring spaces to be auctioned at this site' in the auction description.

 

I go with the market testing theory - seems the most logical.

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It's the delay in moorings being advertised - we've had ones available for six months, but the old moorers left an absolute tip behind, they've only just been cleared for reletting. BW seems very short staffed to me, getting anything done (like reletting a berth) seems to take ages.

 

 

Are you on the river lee? Ive never seen one advertised on the Lee, stort or Regent...

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As a previous bwml tennant i think there is more cause for concern re their price increase policy / justification on moorings one your in..

 

But to balance the picture - we would all be equally up in arms in BW ( bwml) didnt try and get the "market" price for their facilities.

 

As that would mean that either they raise the licence fees further to cover their overall running costs or they claim more in a grant from the government.

 

I'm sure that tax payers dont in general principal want to subsidise some else -

 

and the current governments policy of cuts of 25-40% we will more than likely see the grant reduce go - leaving a bigger issue on funding the system and its repairs/upkeep.

 

Any one that thinks boating and livaboard is a cheap option is probably misguided - it can be a bit cheaper than mortage and renting just, but not by much..

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It's actually where we live at the moment, and it is a tad remote :lol: 20 min walk to tube (zone 5) and train,

 

Making it about 10 on a push bike I would guess....

 

Buy a folder and you're made I would say.

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I think an allocation system based on points built up over the period you have been waiting is the best bet and then they release the moorings every two weeks on a website.

 

Well that worked well didn't it!

A guy I work with was on the London waiting list for 17 years and got to within two of the top then BW scrapped it and went to auctions

The reason he was on for so long is that the system was open to abuse, mates of mates got pushed up the list.......

I will say no more

Edited by idleness
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Are you on the river lee? Ive never seen one advertised on the Lee, stort or Regent...

 

Yes. Quite. Plenty of spaces though. But many berths are not advertised. If you have some involvement in the waterways then you might get to hear about moorings, like my mate (Hedgepig on here but doesn't post much), she's a Pirate Club volunteer, canoe instructor, does the narrowboats as well. When she bought her boat she found a mooring within six weeks, in Islington. From doing community boating we know lots of people as well, from having our own boat, even more. My mate has just taken over a drydock, now we know even more. It's like anything else, it's not what you know, it's who you know.

 

Well that worked well didnt it!

A guy here was on the london waiting list for 17 years and got to within two of the top then BW scrapped it and went to auctions

The reason he was on for so long is that the system was open to abuse, mates of mates got pushed up the list.......

I will say no more

 

The system is still being fiddled as much as it was before and not all free moorings come up for auction. I think when you're talking a scarce resource, unless you have loads of staff and money to check things out, then it's impossible to police.

Edited by Lady Muck
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It's common place for BW to auction off only certain moorings at spots where there are several/more vacancies - you often see

 

'this is the first of x mooring spaces to be auctioned at this site' in the auction description.

 

I go with the market testing theory - seems the most logical.

 

Precisely my point though - they've put on it 'This is the first of three available', but there are actually about 10 available and empty. Some have been empty for more than six months, which must represent a significant loss of revenue.

 

The advertised marina is BW, not BWML. Nearby Packet Boat is BWML and slightly more expensive, but with very few residential berths.

 

Making it about 10 on a push bike I would guess....

 

Buy a folder and you're made I would say.

 

I'm a lazy scrote - 2 wheels and an engine and my commute to work's a joy :lol:

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The bidding system seems like an "f*%$ing " joke to me. Thats twice as much! Surely this system does not work for BW or their customers???

 

Why at least is the bidding system not more open like an ebay style???

 

I see these moorings a bit like council properties, they are in limited suply and they are part of our common wealth... These should not be auctioned off to the wealthiest bidder, BW aint Barrat homes or something.

 

There is plenty of private marinas however if people want that kinda service.

 

I think an allocation system based on points built up over the period you have been waiting is the best bet and then they relase the moorings every two weeks on a website.

 

The person with the higest points and is willing to pay the price gets the moorings.

 

If a moorigdot go on the first round of bidding, they drop the price by 15% and then place it back for bidding in the next two weeks.

 

1 point per month you are waiting

BW workers get an aditional 20 points automatically

People who work close to the mooring get 10 extra points

Disabled people get an extra 30 points as they are in greater need of a permament base etc

 

 

Or something like that

 

The allocation of social housing is based on such a system for a very specific reason.

 

The whole purpose of social housing is to ensure that those in greatest need get housing.

 

A mooring for a boat is not the same thing. Having a boat is either a luxury or a lifestyle choice. Society at large has no duty to ensure that people can use boats. It does have a duty to ensure that people are housed.

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The allocation of social housing is based on such a system for a very specific reason.

 

The whole purpose of social housing is to ensure that those in greatest need get housing.

 

A mooring for a boat is not the same thing. Having a boat is either a luxury or a lifestyle choice. Society at large has no duty to ensure that people can use boats. It does have a duty to ensure that people are housed.

 

 

Well obviously society has no duty to ensure people can have or use a boat, however society does have a duty when resources are few and far between to ensure they are fairly distributed.

 

The canals are a national treasure, not the preserve of an elite and fortunate few.

 

 

Yes. Quite. Plenty of spaces though. But many berths are not advertised. If you have some involvement in the waterways then you might get to hear about moorings, like my mate (Hedgepig on here but doesn't post much), she's a Pirate Club volunteer, canoe instructor, does the narrowboats as well. When she bought her boat she found a mooring within six weeks, in Islington. From doing community boating we know lots of people as well, from having our own boat, even more. My mate has just taken over a drydock, now we know even more. It's like anything else, it's not what you know, it's who you know.

 

 

 

It seems a bit like moorings getting passed onto people who are mates and or have done favours. I understand if someeone has made a great contribution to the comunity they should get somewhere...

Edited by spacecactus
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Well obviously society has no duty to ensure people can have or use a boat, however society does have a duty when resources are few and far between to ensure they are fairly distributed.

 

The canals are a national treasure, not the preserve of an elite and fortunate few.

 

Really?! Like cash, or mansions, or diamonds?! Sounds like a communist utopia to me :lol:

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Well obviously society has no duty to ensure people can have or use a boat, however society does have a duty when resources are few and far between to ensure they are fairly distributed.

 

The canals are a national treasure, not the preserve of an elite and fortunate few.

 

Are points systems intrinsically fairer then?

 

There are residential moorings to be had around the system. If people want a mooring, they can either move or pay a premium for a mooring exactly where they want one.

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Well that worked well didn't it!

A guy I work with was on the London waiting list for 17 years and got to within two of the top then BW scrapped it and went to auctions

The reason he was on for so long is that the system was open to abuse, mates of mates got pushed up the list.......

I will say no more

 

 

I was on the waiting list for about 6 years before the system changed!

 

Are points systems intrinsically fairer then?

 

There are residential moorings to be had around the system. If people want a mooring, they can either move or pay a premium for a mooring exactly where they want one.

 

 

Well I think it is wrong that BW moorings should go to the highest bidder, leading to an example earlier where one person is fortunate to pay 5,000 and then another who is lucky enought to be able to afford (or not) 9,000 in the same marina.

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Are points systems intrinsically fairer then?

 

There are residential moorings to be had around the system. If people want a mooring, they can either move or pay a premium for a mooring exactly where they want one.

part of the problem is that even if you can afford the premium (i cant) you still are unlikely to get a mooring where you want it if you are looking around London as in most cases supply and demand are a long way apart

 

just for the record went to Roydon Marina yesterday and they are expecting to be able to take boats at the beginning of November at around £55 per ft

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part of the problem is that even if you can afford the premium (i cant) you still are unlikely to get a mooring where you want it if you are looking around London as in most cases supply and demand are a long way apart

 

just for the record went to Roydon Marina yesterday and they are expecting to be able to take boats at the beginning of November at around £55 per ft

 

 

Do the moorings come with an electricity supply????

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