why are there so few moorings

[Trix]

as it says why are there so few moorings a friend of mine liked the idea of getting a boat and asked at marinas down the lee only to be told no forget it surely they need to build some more.

[spacecactus]

as it says why are there so few moorings a friend of mine liked the idea of getting a boat and asked at marinas down the lee only to be told no forget it surely they need to build some more.

 

 

Because there is a small group of boaters who want to keep the canals as an exclusive club and like to moan when they see more than 5 boats parked along the towpath in london becuase its suddenly 'so' over crowded.

 

When in fact the canal is the only place in London that aint over crowded.

 

I cant speak of any other places as I hate leaving the city and mixing with the country folk. (Watch out for me in a few years time when I get my boat and an jetting between Victoria park and Kensal Green waving and the moaning old brass polishers.)

 

 

From what I understand, aint the whole boating thing going through a bit of a popular increase at the mo which has placed more pressure on an already pressurised situation as far as moorigs go.

 

I cant beleive BW have this policy of removing online moorings when marina ones are built. It seems like madness to me.

Edited August 10, 2010 by spacecactus

[Trix]

seems that there are lots of boats moored on the banks but not many marinas just seems daft that he was told at one there is a 5 year at least waiting list that just says to me build another as it will fill easily.

[spacecactus]

seems that there are lots of boats moored on the banks but not many marinas just seems daft that he was told at one there is a 5 year at least waiting list that just says to me build another as it will fill easily.

 

 

There is a new marina up in the Roydon area of the lee, or maybe it comes under the stort... Cat remember what it is called maybe roydon mill marina.

I know they had space early this year coz I was up that way.

Edited August 10, 2010 by spacecactus

[Dekazer]

There are spaces at BW marina Engineers Wharf in West London, but I don't know when they are planning on putting them on the auction... Bit of a mystery

[spacecactus]

I seem to remember seeing some moorings at Blackwall east london on the BW auction thingy the other day.

[journeyperson]

I cant speak of any other places as I hate leaving the city and mixing with the country folk. (Watch out for me in a few years time when I get my boat and an jetting between Victoria park and Kensal Green waving and the moaning old brass polishers.)

 

Phew! Mind you in a few years time there may be a ribbon of developments along the whole system and you might get to Cheshire..

[LoneEcho]

There is indeed a new Marina at Roydon Mill on the Stort (only a couple of locks up from the Lea at Dobbs Weir. After a long time getting underway construction is finally underway, and there are plenty of vacancies (leisure only), but expect to pay anything from £55 per foot.

 

Laurie, currently waiting for a boat to be finished in Poland and a marina to be finished in Essex.

[Lady Muck]

Because there is a small group of boaters who want to keep the canals as an exclusive club and like to moan when they see more than 5 boats parked along the towpath in london becuase its suddenly 'so' over crowded.

 

Absolute B8ll*cks.....

 

If you'd seen how the explosion in liveaboards has happened in London, you'd understand why some boaters are concerned. (Those boaters include plenty of London boaters without permanent moorings BTW).

 

I was pretty amazed at the number of boats I saw last week. Go and speak to some of these boaters who have been on the river a bit and ask them what they think - they'll tell you the same thing. If it's possible to moor a boat there, then there is a boat moored there.

 

And BW has no money and we worry what might happen next. We don't want it to end up like the Thames (where I am now) where it's £6 a night to moor up. It could do if those who shout the loudest (Mr Stott?) got their way. I've just found out from my warden that they are going to charge to moor towpath side in Stonebridge (where I am) next winter. So the charges are already creeping in. It's the good ole capitalist way of managing scarce resources - charge for them. Just like the congestion charge it looks like it could be a London thing.

 

Watch out for me in a few years time when I get my boat and an jetting between Victoria park and Kensal Green

Good luck finding a space - by then there could be another 200 boats at least (I'm told that it's two more cc boats every week in London).

 

 

I cant beleive BW have this policy of removing online moorings when marina ones are built. It seems like madness to me.

 

 

BW acknowledge the need for more residential moorings in London, (read their press releases) but the local authorities don't agree. Any planning applications for residential berths usually get turned down. There have been some great proposals for marinas and moorings, but more often than not they don't happen. In London it is always going to be more lucrative to develop banksides into luxury apartments rather than moorings.

 

BW have tried to get rid of some online moorings but have not always been successful - eg. Audlem.

 

a friend of mine liked the idea of getting a boat and asked at marinas down the lee only to be told no forget it.

 

There are alot of 'tyre kickers' about, until they think you are serious then this is the kind of response you'll get (had it from marinas myself).

 

ETA If you are really serious about getting a London mooring you CAN get one (everyone with a mooring in London managed to get one, anyway), but you will have to be creative and put some effort in. Some of the marinas and moorings in London have transferrable berths, so it might be easier to buy a boat on its moorings (which is what we did), it's one of the reasons the waiting lists for the marinas your friend looked at might be so long.

 

Sites that advertise boats with moorings in London:

 

Apollo Duck http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/

Boat Shop http://www.boatshopuk.co.uk/index.php/page/sale-moor (we bought our boat via this site)

Virginia Currer Marine. http://www.vcmarine.co.uk/fsres.html

 

(NB get it IN WRITING from the marina /moorings warden that they will transfer the berth to your name BEFORE you hand over any money for a boat).

 

And be prepared to keep looking. I started looking in September 2005 (on the internet or phone every night) and found the boat & mooring in April 2006.

 

Alot of the vacant British Waterways Lee moorings near us are in the process of being tidied up before they are released for let - at last!

 

Two are being auctioned at my mooring site soon - I think it's about £2500 p.a for an up to 45 foot boat. Which is not bad for fully serviced berth in London. You need to get registered on the www.waterscape.com site

Edited August 10, 2010 by Lady Muck

[alan_fincher]

as it says why are there so few moorings a friend of mine liked the idea of getting a boat and asked at marinas down the lee only to be told no forget it surely they need to build some more.

I assume what you really mean is "why are there so few moorings near the place I have decided I want to locate myself ?"

 

I have been studying moorings that BW let through their auction system throughout the whole of the Grand Union canal, the lion's share of which are on-line tow-path moorings.

 

A very significant number are failing to let, even at the reserve price, which is typically just 75% of the price paid at the same site by existing moorers, (a very different situation from a few years ago).

 

If you are happy to take a mooring in say Leighton Buzzard, Fenny Stratford, etc, you should have little trouble getting one quickly.

 

Of course if you want one near central London, it's rather different.

 

With so many existing moorings not being taken up, it's not totally surprising that nobody is going to great lengths to build new all singing, all dancing marinas in the areas where there is already spare capacity.

 

Marinas cost a fortune to develop, and it is many years in a lot of cases before those building them will recoup their costs, and start to show a profit. Not necessarily a good time with the future of the waterways perhaps less certain than it has been for very many years.

[Trix]

actually I have a mooring I will need a bigger one at some point though

 

but I had to buy the boat to get one and I am talking London which seemed impossible but have had some good advise that I am following up

Edited August 10, 2010 by Trix

[RLWP]

I assume what you really mean is "why are there so few moorings near the place I have decided I want to locate myself ?"

 

I have been studying moorings that BW let through their auction system throughout the whole of the Grand Union canal, the lion's share of which are on-line tow-path moorings.

 

A very significant number are failing to let, even at the reserve price, which is typically just 75% of the price paid at the same site by existing moorers, (a very different situation from a few years ago).

 

If you are happy to take a mooring in say Leighton Buzzard, Fenny Stratford, etc, you should have little trouble getting one quickly.

 

Of course if you want one near central London, it's rather different.

 

With so many existing moorings not being taken up, it's not totally surprising that nobody is going to great lengths to build new all singing, all dancing marinas in the areas where there is already spare capacity.

 

Marinas cost a fortune to develop, and it is many years in a lot of cases before those building them will recoup their costs, and start to show a profit. Not necessarily a good time with the future of the waterways perhaps less certain than it has been for very many years.

 

I'm not sure what is going on at the top of Hatton, but last time I was there, there were only three boats on the long term moorings. I know one has been sold, one moved away and another for sale.

 

So, our moorings experience is that there are more moorings available than in 2003

 

Richard

Edited August 10, 2010 by RLWP

[Lady Muck]

I'm not sure what is going on at the top of Hatton, but last time I was there, there were only three boats on the long term moorings. I know one has been sold, one moved away and another for sale.

 

So, our moorings experience is that there are more moorings available than in 2003

 

Richard

 

Same here.

[alan_fincher]

I'm aware of quite a few boats locally that seem to have quit permanent moorings and joined the local "continuous cruisers".

 

Also aware of some that have been sold by local brokerage, which are also out "continuously cruising" locally, whereas previously in a marina.

 

When we bought our boat on a mooring in a local marina it was full, and for a long while it seemed to only very rarely have a spare berth or two. For some time now they have advertised moorings available, (though this situation has not stopped them increasing the price year on year).

 

The following gives a good guide to what has happened to BW moorings auctioned on the Grand Union since they switched from the sealed bids tendering system.....

 

This may not be spot on, (I could have missed a few), but is pretty close.....

 

 

No bids - did not let 25

Let only at reserve 75% of guide 17

More than 75% but less than guide 11

Let a guide price 2

Let at more than guide price 16

 

TOTAL COMPLETED AUCTIONS 71

 

(A further 4 are currently under offer, only one of which has so far attracted a minimum bid)

 

With only about 1/4 making guide price or better, and 3/4 either not letting or going for less than under the old system, this really does look like a bit of a British waterways own goal, doesn't it ?

 

So there are moorings available, including 25 cases above where someone could have had one at 75% of what existing moorers pay.

 

(Always brings me back to the "why didn't existing moorers bid, and get it cheaper ?" question, though. )

[Lady Muck]

So is it 'slow handclap time' for Sally Ash and her moorings auctions, then?

[PhilR]

So is it 'slow handclap time' for Sally Ash and her moorings auctions, then?

 

Probably time to negotiate my EOG mooring, there seems to be plenty of evidence now of demand being less than supply

[blackrose]

actually I have a mooring I will need a bigger one at some point though

 

but I had to buy the boat to get one and I am talking London which seemed impossible but have had some good advise that I am following up

 

Is that the case? Is it necessary for one to first have a boat to get a mooring?

 

When I left my mooring at Brentford there were plenty of available berths (expensive though).

Edited August 11, 2010 by blackrose

[magpie patrick]

to turn the original question into a similar question for a different mode of travel

 

I'd like a caravan, but I haven't got a driveway to put it on, and I'm not allowed to keep one on the road. So I need somewhere to put it, the local caravan sites are for tourers so I need caravan storage, but the nearest ones in Salisbury. I don't want to have to drive forty miles to get it, and anyway I can't afford that. I can't afford a house with a drive either. Why doesn't someone build cheap houses with drives or build more caravan storage closer to me and cheaper...

 

or to put it another way, why do you think I've just bought a 23 foot trailable boat (on a mooring) and am flogging my 62 foot narrow boat. Cost and availability of moorings perhaps? Plus my trailable is "stored" afloat on a mooring

[RLWP]

I knew this would happen. As soon as he's bought a trailable boat Patrick starts talking about caravans...

 

Richard

 

[Dekazer]

BW acknowledge the need for more residential moorings in London, (read their press releases) but the local authorities don't agree. Any planning applications for residential berths usually get turned down. There have been some great proposals for marinas and moorings, but more often than not they don't happen. In London it is always going to be more lucrative to develop banksides into luxury apartments rather than moorings.

 

ETA If you are really serious about getting a London mooring you CAN get one (everyone with a mooring in London managed to get one, anyway), but you will have to be creative and put some effort in. Some of the marinas and moorings in London have transferrable berths, so it might be easier to buy a boat on its moorings (which is what we did), it's one of the reasons the waiting lists for the marinas your friend looked at might be so long.

 

And be prepared to keep looking. I started looking in September 2005 (on the internet or phone every night) and found the boat & mooring in April 2006.

 

Alot of the vacant British Waterways Lee moorings near us are in the process of being tidied up before they are released for let - at last!

 

Two are being auctioned at my mooring site soon - I think it's about £2500 p.a for an up to 45 foot boat. Which is not bad for fully serviced berth in London. You need to get registered on the www.waterscape.com site

 

I just heard from BW that they are preparing to put a number of residential (marina) moorings up for auction at Engineers Wharf in Northolt. Now's the time to sign up for the auction alerts so you receive an email each time a new berth becomes available.

 

Edit to say: When I say 'a number', I mean about 10...

Edited August 11, 2010 by Dekazer