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I have just read about this new battery gauge. I think this may open up a debate. It operates on voltage only 2 wire connections and is supposed to give as much information as the current operated types. Reading the sales Blurb it sounds the bee's knees (tongue in cheek) lets see what you all think?

 

 

 

 

http://www.smartgauge.co.uk

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snip

lets see what you all think?

http://www.smartgauge.co.uk

 

 

It’s difficult, this one. The man behind this, Chris Gibbons, is a regular poster on the canal newsgroup, and is, I think, well respected in matters electric.

 

My problem is I can’t see that the gizmo can do what is claimed down two wires, no shunt or anything else. In my limited knowledge of these matters it seem to me the gismo can only be measuring voltage, albeit integrated with/against time, and it does have the smarts, it can “learn” but I cant get my head round the algorithm used here. That’s down to my lack of knowledge/understanding, nothing to do with the gauge. :lol:

 

My reaction to the blurb should be “horse-s***” but I have to respect Mr Gibbons engineering credentials, a dilemma. :lol:

 

Chris Gibbons (Gibbo) has posted on this forum and it would be nice if he was to appear here with all the details, but I suspect they are a closely guarded commercial secret. :o

 

All that aside, I believe what he says about ‘traditional’ battery meters to be true, they can only be of value if one understands exactly what they are telling one.

 

 

I will ask in the (real) pub this evening, should get it sorted :)

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It is true that a lot can be told about batteries by a voltmeter, but I still feel that an ammeter with shunt will tell more about what is going in and out of batteries. Things change though, and if any new electrickery gadgets can tell us more then fair enough. I am an ammeter, voltmeter person myself. Its that KISS thing again.

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The 'Gauge' can be little more than a decent voltmeter though there is a possibility that it could incorporate a proximity type ammeter but even at best they give very poor accuracy, they can tell you little more than that current is flowing. As Catty says you really need a proper shunt type ammeter and a voltmeter.

 

Why not buy a nice pair of matched analogue ones, make a feature of them.

 

And of course there is the hand held 'Hall effect' type.

 

Clamp mater: http://tinyurl.com/5d85o

home page:

http://www.rapidelectronics.co.uk

 

Code; 85-0709 £64 -61 Model M9912

Edited by John Orentas
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Just remember ALL gauges are voltmeters, despite what it says on the dial ...... even your fuel gauge.

 

It's how accurate they are calibrated, and how much current they are designed to measure that is important.

It is a fair point that a guage is a guage is a guage (if i remember -and i usually dont-aren't they all correctly called galvanometers?). It is how we utilise and connect it though that makes it an ammeter, a fuel gauge etc. I vote for the ammeter personally, connected across a shunt so it measures the tiny potential difference, and tells you the true current in and out. With a voltmeter also present you are in a good position to see what is happening. As you say they need to be accurate.

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As the Smart Gauge doesnt require the application of Peukerts Law, its got to be easier/quicker to fit.

If it does what it says on the tin, then its got to be a move in the right direction.

The article says nothing about the algorithms that it uses, so its impossible to judge how good it is.

Presumerably and understandably, this is because they are part of their IPR.

 

I suggest we hold fire until somebody has one on a boat that we know of so we can get some feedback.

 

Many new ideas start like this - they then either get bought up by the big boys out there and become the de facto standard for that type of equipment or they bomb, never to be seen again.

 

Mark

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Two wires are wonderfull things, stick them on a battery charger and what they can do is wonderous, or stick them on a battery and the worlds your oyster, well it is according to the adverts.

Back to being serious, I have always used a hydrometer to check the condition of batteries, I can do this as I only use Lead acid batteries, it doesn't work on sealed or gell batteries.

Oh yes one last thing, make sure that if you are testing Marine batteries you get a Marine hydrometer,

What is the difference I hear you ask, they cost twice as much

Edited by jollyroger
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The 'Gauge' can be little more than a decent voltmeter though there is a possibility that it could incorporate a proximity type ammeter but even at best they give very poor accuracy, they can tell you little more than that current is flowing. As Catty says you really need a proper shunt type ammeter and a voltmeter.

 

Why not buy a nice pair of matched analogue ones, make a feature of them.

 

And of course there is the hand held 'Hall effect' type.

 

Clamp mater: http://tinyurl.com/5d85o

home page:

http://www.rapidelectronics.co.uk

 

Code; 85-0709 £64 -61 Model M9912

 

I hope your on commission by now John !

 

Wonder if Santa can get me one in time for Christmas?!? :lol:

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  • 4 months later...

Ok. As requested I'm here :-)

 

What specific questions do people have?

 

I'd like to make a few statements firstly though.

 

Obviously I'm not about to disclose how SmartGauge works. Anyone who asks me to is being rather unreasonable. 3 years research and a huge amount of money went into the design. I'm not about to give that away.

 

To state that 2 wires can only measure voltage is completely incorrect. To the layman voltage possibly is the only measurment that can be made. To an engineer there are a whole host of other measurements to be got down 2 wires.

 

SmartGauge does not measure battery current. Whilst battery current (in and out) can be an extremely useful piece of information it does not show the state of charge of the batteries. Attempts to calculate the state of charge of the batteries by integrating battery current over time have been made. This is what amp hours counters do. For most people amp hours counters do not work. This isn't speculation. It is a fact.

 

Some people can use amp hours counters very successfully. SmartGauge isn't aimed at those people. It is aimed at people who either cannot use one or cannot be bothered using one. The fact is that amp hours counters can and do run out of synchronisation with the batteries. Once this has happened, they are effectively useless.

 

SmartGauge *does* utilise Peukert's Law. It is a rather large part of the algorithm. But it calculates the required parameters itself. This allows the figures to be automatically adjusted as the batteries age. This does not happen with amp hours counters.

 

SmartGauge incorporates a voltmeter. But it is not *just* a voltmeter. It is far more.

 

I will be more than happy to answer any questions. Except "how does it work" !

 

Gibbo

 

PS Just to be pedantic...... In actual fact *most* electrical gauges actually measure current!

PPS The name is Gibson :-)

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what took you so long?

and my boat batteries start the boat,when they dont start the boat will this device get me going?

asked by someone who knows zilch about boat electrics

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