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Can you hand pump waste??


Happy Guy

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SPOs already pay by purchasing a license, the same as casette users do, except casette users dont have to pay twice, once for the license and once to empty the loo.

 

Im playing devils advocate and find the dogmatic stance of the holier than thou casette users rather disapointing

 

But buying a boat with a PO I make a choice.. pay someone to do it or faff about and get shit all over my shoes and the dock side and save a few quid.

 

Sorry but if things are this tight you need to consider whether you can afford to be a boater.

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SPOs already pay by purchasing a license, the same as casette users do, except casette users dont have to pay twice, once for the license and once to empty the loo.

 

Nobody HAS to pay twice.

 

Everybody has the option of using the system that free to use facilities are provided for.

 

If you choose not to use that system, you have to pay.

 

 

A self pump out kit is much lighter to cope with and to answer another post, with a self pumpout kit costing £100 + It isn't about getting something for free.

Sue

 

Well, yes it is.

 

If you just bought a cheapo ex-hire boat with a PO fitted, buying a SPO kit is the cheapest option, compared with taking the PO loo out and fitting a cassette.

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What if there was no petrol, only diesel on the forecourts, how handy would that be?

Do you mean a boatyard forecourt? :lol:

 

When I had a petrol outboard engine I used to arrive at my boat with a full petrol can and an empty portapotti.

 

I left with an empty petrol can and a full portapotti.

 

Not too inconvenient.

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But buying a boat with a PO I make a choice.. pay someone to do it or faff about and get shit all over my shoes and the dock side and save a few quid.

 

Sorry but if things are this tight you need to consider whether you can afford to be a boater.

You are definitely talking about a cassette then. :lol: I have never got shit over my shoes or dockside.

Sue

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SPOs already pay by purchasing a license, the same as casette users do, except casette users dont have to pay twice, once for the license and once to empty the loo.

 

Im playing devils advocate and find the dogmatic stance of the holier than thou casette users rather disapointing

 

 

What is dogmatic about playing by the rules? The rules are that you can not use the Elsan for SPO, and when you pay for your licence you indicate that you understand, and will abide by those rules. But heho, suddenly, because it is convinient, and cheapo, certain rules are to be ignored, and those pointing this out, are dogmatic?

 

Just because I have payed my roadtax, does not give me free access to a toll road.

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I have been self pumping for over 20yrs. Well before the new fangled machines BW now provide. In those dim and distant days you could pump out at most elsan disposal points because they were regularly emptied.

So, with 20 years experience of self-PO, can we have an honest assessment of the situation as you see it now, Sue ?

 

What percentage of facilities do you believe BW actually now allow it at ?

 

Are you able to meet most of your self-PO needs by a good knowledge of those places where it is allowed ?

 

Would you now actively encourage all PO users who were prepared to to equip themselves up for self-PO, so it was being done by a large slice of PO users, not just a very small minority ?

 

How do you think such facilities as currently allow it would then cope, and how do you think BW would react to such a change in patterns of use ?

 

I maintain it is only sustainable at all because, frankly, (and thankfully!), only a very small percentage of PO users are actually equipped for self-PO.

 

Also do you accept that people do do it at places where they are told not to ?

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What is dogmatic about playing by the rules? The rules are that you can not use the Elsan for SPO, and when you pay for your licence you indicate that you understand, and will abide by those rules. But heho, suddenly, because it is convinient, and cheapo, certain rules are to be ignored, and those pointing this out, are dogmatic?

 

Just because I have payed my roadtax, does not give me free access to a toll road.

 

Im refering to the eletist and biggoted attitude by the casette users over the pumpouts who they see as being tightwads and inferior.

 

Why is there always such division within social minority groups? What makes you think your all right and other are wrong?

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Im refering to the eletist and biggoted attitude by the casette users over the pumpouts who they see as being tightwads and inferior.

 

Why is there always such division within social minority groups? What makes you think your all right and other are wrong?

Blimey you are taking this seriously aren't you?

 

Where has anyone said any such thing, against people who have pump-out toilets.

 

Some of my best friends have pump-outs so how can I be a bigot?

 

I object to self-pumpouts at Elsan points not designed to take such large volumes in one go. BW are aware of the problem and many Elsan points display signs which prohibit self-pumpouts. These signs are frequently ignored.

 

If you want to pay for a pumpout or use stations designed for self-pumpout then fine, that is your choice.

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Im refering to the eletist and biggoted attitude by the casette users over the pumpouts who they see as being tightwads and inferior.

 

Why is there always such division within social minority groups? What makes you think your all right and other are wrong?

 

I have a p/o bog and have never considered it an option to self pump, as far as I know the infrastructure is not there and I don't wan't to mess about. If I did wan't to use an elsan then I would get a casette loo. Infact If we get a boat again then that is what we'll have. As Dave says, it's down to planning, we know that we have to spend a tenner every 3 weeks to a month and factor it in as we do for coal in the winter and leccy. I don't think anybody is being biggoted or eletist, Just saying it how it is. That said, if somebody uses a SPO that doesn't block the elsan and they keep things clean then I have no problem with it, going on what others have said I don't think thats the case.

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We have a pump out and a portapotti. We never poo in the portapotti because we have both agreed that we never want to see our poo again once it's been discharged. We were frozen in for six weeks during the winter, during which time the pump out filled up rather quickly. We found land based facilities rather than poo in the portapotti - the agreement is that whoever deposits it empties it and neither of us are prepared to. For that reason we would never even think of buying self pump out equipment - the worst of both worlds IMO.

 

Am I making sense or did I just talk shite :lol:

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You are definitely talking about a cassette then. :lol: I have never got shit over my shoes or dockside.

Sue

 

The only time I got S**t over my shoes was when I used the Elsan just after a self pumpout had managed to spill most of it over the floor.

 

 

Im refering to the eletist and biggoted attitude by the casette users over the pumpouts who they see as being tightwads and inferior.

 

Why is there always such division within social minority groups? What makes you think your all right and other are wrong?

 

Never seen myself as elitist wow.... yes I do see self pumpouts as tightwads but more as people who buy a boat with a system that requires extra cocts and are then not prepared to pay the cost.

 

As an aside where do northerners put their rubbish? We can't find any rubbish disposal points.

Sue

 

Presume you are North of Watford Gap!!

 

 

I don't see why P/O users should be treated any different to cassette users. If free P/O points can't be supplied why should free Elsan points be any different? Why not have a card system same as P/Os? They could be set to provide usage for, say, £1 to equal a P/O. That way P/O users aren't subsidising cassette users, seems quite fair to me.

 

Don't see how pumpout users are subsidising us casette users same as I don't feel I am subsidising those selfish people that travel as a couple or even worse take a family on a boat requiring more water than me and generating more rubish and even worse generating more s**t meaning they use the elsan more than I do.

 

 

As I said in my earlier post we always stop, clean the sluice down and let anyone who is waiting to empty a cassette do so.....Although Anderton has a self op pump out machine like all the other BW owned self pumpouts it never seems to work....

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

 

If it does not work there is pumpout facility in marina opposite but hey they charge......

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Never seen myself as elitist wow.... yes I do see self pumpouts as tightwads but more as people who buy a boat with a system that requires extra cocts and are then not prepared to pay the cost.

 

My SPO system is costing me around £300 to install. It would take around 3-4 years of PO's to recoup the money back if I use it every time. So not the cheapest option, but gives me the most options as I prefer a PO system over cassette.

 

People don't choose a boat for the loo when buying a used boat!

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My SPO system is costing me around £300 to install. It would take around 3-4 years of PO's to recoup the money back if I use it every time. So not the cheapest option, but gives me the most options as I prefer a PO system over cassette.

 

People don't choose a boat for the loo when buying a used boat!

 

Still don't understand having made the choice to go for pumpout you don't just use the pumpout facilities?

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Still don't understand having made the choice to go for pumpout you don't just use the pumpout facilities?

 

I do use the pump out facilities, but the local one isn't brilliant and as I'm refitting the boat adding a pump to do a SPO makes sense.

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People don't choose a boat for the loo when buying a used boat!

I disagree.

 

I would never buy a boat which had a pumpout system. The hassle and expense of having it removed instantly disqualifies it.

 

I am also too tight to pay for a pumpout and would never consider inconveniencing other people by using a self pumpout system.

Edited by carlt
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I disagree.

 

I would never buy a boat which had a pumpout system. The hassle and expense of having it removed instantly disqualifies it.

 

I am also too tight to pay for a pumpout and would never consider inconveniencing other people by using a self pumpout system.

 

So if it was the perfect boat apart from the toilet system you would dismiss just on that? That just seems odd unless there's a bundle of boats in your price range.

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So if it was the perfect boat apart from the toilet system you would dismiss just on that? That just seems odd unless there's a bundle of boats in your price range.

Yes I would dismiss it and, yes, there are a bundle of boats in my (theoretical) price range.

 

If there was only one boat, in my price range, and it had a PO then I would have to buy it, and remove the PO, or wait until a better boat came along.

 

Space is a major consideration and I can think of hundreds of better uses for it than to store loads of poo.

Edited by carlt
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I shall wade in if I may

 

Elsan is much the older system, and is not just used by boaters, caravans use it, many of those portable loos at festivals are a variant on it, I even found the coach from Alice Springs to Darwin has a Thetford Porta Potti!

 

Porta Pottis and their like need emptying very frequently, and when emptied contain no more than twenty litres, however, some years ago the hire industry switched to pump out, partly as a concern about hirers handling elsan blue etc. Familiar story, when a few hardy souls who took the rough and tumble for granted there wasn't a problem, as the appeal of boating increased, so did the number of customers with more money and more sensitivities.

 

Pump outs need emptying much less frequently. Ripple has two loos (lautrec?) and is intended for a crew of eight to go all week without needing a pump out, so the boatyard do it when the boat is handed back (Ripple is ex-hire). as a result the volume of sewage discharged in one go is much greater, as others have commented, it is also a system that overall generates a greater volume. partly because it uses more water in the flush and partly because, freed form the constraints of acrrying a porta potti to the elsan users, especially hirers, get more blase.

 

Because of the greater volume, both in one go and in total, pump outs can overwhelm elsan points. It isn't just, as Sueb alleges, less frequent emptying, the number of boats on the system has doubled in 20 years with a consequent increase in demand. If the Elsan point has a sceptic tank, rather than storage tank, a single pump out can render the tank incapable of digesting any more sewage.

 

Pump out equipment is a hell of a lot more expensive to install and maintain than elsan points, somehow this has to be paid for. Why should you pay more for pump out? because it costs more to provide the service perhaps?

 

There isn't a shortage of places you can pump out given the huge capacity available. On the G and S, hardly the centre of the universe for canals, there is Saul Marina and Slimbridge Boat Station. Up river there are Tewkesbury and Upton Marinas, if you cruise the avon ring you pass ten boatyards offering pump out, given this route can be done in a week this equates to you never being more than a days cruise away from one

 

And finally, it is obvious that Sueb knows what she is doing with self pump out with her own equipment, therefore she is the sort of person that can be trusted with it, but can everyone? the anecdotes of elsan station covered in raw sewage suggest not.

 

If you buy a boat with pump out, you know you are taking on the advantage of increased capacity and the disadvantage of cost. Live with it.

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Well, thanks again everyone for your responses.

 

I must say though, I am surprised by the tone of many of the posts. I asked the original question in all innocence on a 'newbie' section of the post, but I have had to put up with a fair amount of abuse.

 

I love the forum, and I really value the advice, but I think that the more experienced members should bear in mind that we all have to start somewhere, and a simple statement of opinion or gentle nod in the right direction is sufficient and desireable.

 

I think I explained in my OP that I hoped to dispose of the contents down my own inspection chamber, so I think that your concerns about me causing delays and splattering facilities are unnecessary.

 

As I said before, it was only an idea... but I think I've got the gist.

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Well, thanks again everyone for your responses.

 

I must say though, I am surprised by the tone of many of the posts. I asked the original question in all innocence on a 'newbie' section of the post, but I have had to put up with a fair amount of abuse.

 

I love the forum, and I really value the advice, but I think that the more experienced members should bear in mind that we all have to start somewhere, and a simple statement of opinion or gentle nod in the right direction is sufficient and desireable.

 

I think I explained in my OP that I hoped to dispose of the contents down my own inspection chamber, so I think that your concerns about me causing delays and splattering facilities are unnecessary.

 

As I said before, it was only an idea... but I think I've got the gist.

 

 

Happy Guy, errrm, yes, threads take on a life of their own, and I at least wasn't responding to your post but to the numerous "why isn't it free, why can't we just use an elsan point". I think most of the points made in that direction were not aimed at you.

 

It's a bit like starting a conversation in a pub, where some asks whether Norwich City will be relegated next season and before you know it you're into the merits or otherwise of grid iron football

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It's a bit like starting a conversation in a pub, where some asks whether Norwich City will be relegated next season and before you know it you're into the merits or otherwise of grid iron football

 

Except talking about boating bogs gets (for some reason I still don't fully understand) even more emotive -

 

 

I think I explained in my OP that I hoped to dispose of the contents down my own inspection chamber,

 

But the real hazard for me in that method is transporting the poo - human effluent is a serious health risk and if you were serious about transporting it home to empty it I would think again.

 

If you are let us know when and where you are on the road and I for one will be giving you a wide berth - the consequences of even a minor RTC with several tanks of poo in your car are to me not worth thinking about.

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Pump out equipment is a hell of a lot more expensive to install and maintain than elsan points, somehow this has to be paid for. Why should you pay more for pump out? because it costs more to provide the service perhaps?

 

I agree, pump out equipment is expensive to install and maintain and should be paid for by the user. However if I'm using my own equipment which I paid for, I don't see why I shouldn't use a elsan if it's capable of handling self pump outs (It would be nice if the places had a connection for self pump outs so you could just connect up and use your own pump).

 

I realise that this is getting pretty close to having a chemical toilet... so perhaps I should just replace the toilet!

 

I would get a portaloo short term, with a view to replacing the main loo longterm if you want to go cassette.

Edited by Robbo
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I agree, pump out equipment is expensive to install and maintain and should be paid for by the user. However if I'm using my own equipment which I paid for, I don't see why I shouldn't use a elsan if it's capable of handling self pump outs (It would be nice if the places had a connection for self pump outs so you could just connect up and use your own pump).

 

I would get a portaloo short term, with a view to replacing the main loo longterm if you want to go cassette.

 

That is precisely what is needed to meet the needs of some and an increasing number of boat customers. It is not about a huge investment in sanitation at the expense of dredging or lock maintenenace but about the application of some of the revenuue/capital maintenance costs of sanitary stations and like facililities into something useful and beneficial to the canal community as a whole. Its not about cassettes are best, pump-outs should pay and not use Elsans and all the other arguments.

 

BW asks its customers what it wants from time to time (consults). I would say that proper soil connections come before more washing machines and shower facilities but then I no longer have a cassette/chemical toilet.

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Guest wanted
I agree, pump out equipment is expensive to install and maintain and should be paid for by the user. However if I'm using my own equipment which I paid for, I don't see why I shouldn't use a elsan if it's capable of handling self pump outs (It would be nice if the places had a connection for self pump outs so you could just connect up and use your own pump).

 

I would get a portaloo short term, with a view to replacing the main loo longterm if you want to go cassette.

 

Paid for by SPO users?

Edited by wanted
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