What do people think of this boat...?

[Happy Guy]

Hiya

 

I've just got hold of a mooring (just 36') and I'm looking at boats, and I'm thinking of putting an offer in for one with the following credentials:

 

Built by Tulleys of Rotherham in 1997

Vetus, 2 cylinder diesel engine

Paloma Instant water heater

Solid fuel stove in tiled surround

Bathroom to stern with wash basin, shower & Porta Potti chemical toilet

Galley with oven, grill, 3 burner hob and fridge

2 single berths in bow (could convert to large double)

Last blacked and new anodes fitted Spring 2006

Boat Safety Certificate to March 2012

 

I realise that I'll have to get her reblacked, but apart from that can anyone see any huge problems with this boat? Is Vetus a reasonably reliable engine? Is '97 particularly old? It seems to have hung around at this particular brokerage for a long time, and although I've knocked the price down significantly, I'm worried why it has taken so long to sell. It looks ok when I visited! As you might have guessed I'm on a tight budget. I'm getting a survey by the way... I'm just trying to see if there are any glaring problems that people can see! (I've posted a similar message on another forum btw, and people correctly guessed that the boat is for sale at Bluewater Marina in Yorkshire!)

 

Any opinions gratefully received! Thanks.

[Naughty Cal]

If its the one at Blue Water Marina it looks a good value boat.

[luctor et emergo]

Hiya

 

I've just got hold of a mooring (just 36') and I'm looking at boats, and I'm thinking of putting an offer in for one with the following credentials:

 

Built by Tulleys of Rotherham in 1997

Vetus, 2 cylinder diesel engine

Paloma Instant water heater

Solid fuel stove in tiled surround

Bathroom to stern with wash basin, shower & Porta Potti chemical toilet

Galley with oven, grill, 3 burner hob and fridge

2 single berths in bow (could convert to large double)

Last blacked and new anodes fitted Spring 2006

Boat Safety Certificate to March 2012

 

I realise that I'll have to get her reblacked, but apart from that can anyone see any huge problems with this boat? Is Vetus a reasonably reliable engine? Is '97 particularly old? It seems to have hung around at this particular brokerage for a long time, and although I've knocked the price down significantly, I'm worried why it has taken so long to sell. It looks ok when I visited! As you might have guessed I'm on a tight budget. I'm getting a survey by the way... I'm just trying to see if there are any glaring problems that people can see! (I've posted a similar message on another forum btw, and people correctly guessed that the boat is for sale at Bluewater Marina in Yorkshire!)

 

Any opinions gratefully received! Thanks.

 

 

A similar boat (36') has been for sale for nearly a year (at least, might have been longer) in a local marina. Not a bad boat on the surface, but very tired interior. Also needs a repaint, as rust is starting to bubble up under the paint. Whilst it is certainly servicable, the interior needs major work to tidy it up (loose tiles, gaps in the wall paneling, general cleanup etc, you get the idea). The layout with two up and over bunks in the rear is likely not going to be to anybodies liking either. It needs a new SF stove (or a major overhaul of the existing one)

I don't know what the hull is like, or the engine (it is mentioned that it had a recent service and new battery last year). The boat has been reduced several times.

 

You will find out from the survey if the hull is sound, and if there are other major problems (has it got a gas instalation? Has it got a current BSS certificate?) which should give you an indication as to how much it might cost to fix her up.

 

 

 

 

 

Edit... is it 36' or 30' ? The only 1997 boat on the BWM listing is a 30' boat? But the page keeps timing out, so I can't see the details.

Edit again... just realised that you mention the length of the mooring, not the boat.. . I think that the fact that the boat is only 30' long makes it less desirable.

 

To be honest, for that length, and your budget, would you not be better to look for a Cruiser? You'll get more boat for your money.

Edited April 27, 2010 by luctor et emergo

[alan_fincher]

Hard to tell from the level of detail given, or the brokers details.

 

1997 is certainly not old - a plus! Vetus are a reliable engine usually - it may well be a marinisation of a Mitsubishi engine.

 

I'm assuming the two vertical "tubes" on the stern deck house the Calor gas ? OK, it has a BSC on it, but check these are venting overboard, and that escaped gas could not get into the engine bay.

 

I'm intrigued by what looks like an over-substantial "strake", (almost a beam ?), around the hull not far above water line - unusual!

 

The bow is not a terribly sensible shape for canal cruising, as it could easily get caught in the woodwork or steelwork of a lock as you are filling it, if the boat is too far forward, (although with care and only a 30 foot boat, that should be fully avoidable!).

 

Jim Shead's boat list says the boat is by "Tully Marine", who I have never heard of.

 

Curiously there are no other licensed boats listed by this builder, leading me to think they could only have built a very small number.

 

You have to consider this may have been a self build project by a "Mr Tulley", who considered themselves a bit of a welder, but actually didn't know too much about narrow boats - i.e. it's possible it's not a commercially produced boat.

 

Sorry, but you need to be realistic - you certainly need the survey, IMO.

[luctor et emergo]

Any change of a link? I keep getting a 'time out' message..

[wrigglefingers]

Hiya

 

I've just got hold of a mooring (just 36') and I'm looking at boats, and I'm thinking of putting an offer in for one with the following credentials:

 

Built by Tulleys of Rotherham in 1997

Vetus, 2 cylinder diesel engine

Paloma Instant water heater

Solid fuel stove in tiled surround

Bathroom to stern with wash basin, shower & Porta Potti chemical toilet

Galley with oven, grill, 3 burner hob and fridge

2 single berths in bow (could convert to large double)

Last blacked and new anodes fitted Spring 2006

Boat Safety Certificate to March 2012

 

I realise that I'll have to get her reblacked, but apart from that can anyone see any huge problems with this boat? Is Vetus a reasonably reliable engine? Is '97 particularly old? It seems to have hung around at this particular brokerage for a long time, and although I've knocked the price down significantly, I'm worried why it has taken so long to sell. It looks ok when I visited! As you might have guessed I'm on a tight budget. I'm getting a survey by the way... I'm just trying to see if there are any glaring problems that people can see! (I've posted a similar message on another forum btw, and people correctly guessed that the boat is for sale at Bluewater Marina in Yorkshire!)

 

Any opinions gratefully received! Thanks.

 

Okay, link is Elizabeth Ann

 

You can do your own mini survey before you commit to spending some money with a proper surveyor.

 

So ....

 

Have a very close look at the exterior, is there any sign of anything other than superficial damage - she looks scuffed and well-used to me - which isn't a bad thing as it means that she's been used for her purpose.

 

I would get on my belly and check the chines - get yourself flat on your belly, roll up your sleeves and feel the join between the bottom plate and the hull sides. There should be a good lip where the hull side joins the bottom plate. If there isn't, be vaguely suspicious. What is missing from the specification details is the steel thickness at build. The boat is 13 years old so I would expect it to be 10/6/4 or thereabouts. 13 year old isn't particularly old in narrowboat terms and you shouldn't have problems with it needing re-plating but the formal survey will tell you. She does need blacking and I would go for three coats, make sure the yard allows each coat to dry before sploshing on the next one.

 

Check where the gas locker is and check for rust internally. Rust is alarming insofar as even superficial rust looks like a scary amount, but the key thing is to check the condition of the metal underneath it. CHeck the rudder for shake and when you run the engine check to see if there is any water coming up through the bearings when the engine is in gear. Budget to have the column seats removed. IMO they're very dangerous.

 

When you run the engine do the usual engine checks, look at the condition of the oil and check the water. Listen to the engine when it's warmed up - is it running smoothly? Most diesel engines will sound like a bag of rusty nails when they start up so wait until it's warm, but do check the exhaust as she warms up. Is the exhaust black, vaguely smoky or running clear? It's not a sinister thing to have a smoky engine on start up as the oil may need changing but it may be a problem if the engine is sounding lumpy and exhaust still blowing black after 20 minutes. Izuzu engines are tough little units and were often fitted to hire boats. I'm not a mechanic and bigger brains will tell you more....

 

Engine bilge should be clean with a minimum of water or oil. Check the stern gland - there may be a slight drip from it, twist the stern gland greaser and see if it stops when the engine is running. Don't worry too much about it, changing the packing should be done when she comes out for blacking in any case. Electrics should be neat and clipped up. Take a multimeter and check on the condition of the batteries - when were they installed? Can you see the level of the the electcrolyte? These things will tell you a lot about the boat has been maintained overall.

 

Find the cabin bilge inspection hatch and check to see if there's any water in the bilge. If there's a small amount then that's not a disaster either - it may just be condensation runoff. if it's a lot suspect a failed water pump, split pipe or leak. Do have a good look at the condition of the plate - some boats rot from the inside out.

 

Check the condition of the installed appliances - the boat has a ticket until 2012 but the inspection will come round soon enough and if like the rest of us you're on a limited budget, having to find a few more hundred quid to get a boat through it's BSC is not welcome!

 

Finally walk across the roof and bounce slightly to see whether the hull superstructure has any give in it. It's arguable, but some flex may indicate that the internal welds are not up to the job. Or it may indicate that you need a diet!

 

Bigger brains will point out what I've missed and do get a proper survey ...

 

Good luck, Jill

 

Hard to tell from the level of detail given, or the brokers details.

 

1997 is certainly not old - a plus! Vetus are a reliable engine usually - it may well be a marinisation of a Mitsubishi engine.

 

I'm assuming the two vertical "tubes" on the stern deck house the Calor gas ? OK, it has a BSC on it, but check these are venting overboard, and that escaped gas could not get into the engine bay.

 

I'm intrigued by what looks like an over-substantial "strake", (almost a beam ?), around the hull not far above water line - unusual!

 

The bow is not a terribly sensible shape for canal cruising, as it could easily get caught in the woodwork or steelwork of a lock as you are filling it, if the boat is too far forward, (although with care and only a 30 foot boat, that should be fully avoidable!).

 

Jim Shead's boat list says the boat is by "Tully Marine", who I have never heard of.

 

Curiously there are no other licensed boats listed by this builder, leading me to think they could only have built a very small number.

 

You have to consider this may have been a self build project by a "Mr Tulley", who considered themselves a bit of a welder, but actually didn't know too much about narrow boats - i.e. it's possible it's not a commercially produced boat.

 

Sorry, but you need to be realistic - you certainly need the survey, IMO.

 

That strake is chunky, but the proportions of smaller boats often look out of scale as they can be cutdown versions of much larger boats. I agree with your comments about the bow shape but given that she's got about 40ft of free water in a lock and a good, deep bow fender will help resolve the problem.

 

Tulleys is a boatyard in Rotherham.

[luctor et emergo]

Thanks for the link Jill, but now my comp won't even connect with the BWM home page...

 

Oh well, I still think that for that length, OP would be better of looking for a (dare I say it) GRP cruiser.

[alan_fincher]

Tulleys is a boatyard in Rotherham.

Fair enough !

 

No evidence they have ever built more than one surviving narrow-boat that is on BW or EA waters though, (according to Jim Shead).

 

So worth the survey, as they don't look like an established builder, I think.

 

My guess is the plating will be nothing like a 10/6/4 spec, but who knows! Not that you need it, in that type of boat, really!

[luctor et emergo]

I found Tulleys Marine Services in Rotherham, but the builder is mentioned as Tully. Are they the same?

[Naughty Cal]

Thanks for the link Jill, but now my comp won't even connect with the BWM home page...

 

Oh well, I still think that for that length, OP would be better of looking for a (dare I say it) GRP cruiser.

 

Blue water marina have a reputation for telling people if they dont think narrowboats will suit their needs (which is no bad thing) A few cruiser owners in our marina had started looking there at narrowboats and then took the owners advice and looked at cruisers. He seems a sensible man and certainly from talks we had with him genuine. (Although i have heard rumour the yard has changed hands recently)

 

I found Tulleys Marine Services in Rotherham, but the builder is mentioned as Tully. Are they the same?

 

I believe they are.

[wrigglefingers]

I've had another look a the photos and noticed the concrete blocks on the stern. Why are they there? Insufficient ballasting perhaps?

[Nightwatch]

My thoughts for what they are worth.

 

I think the asking price is steep.

 

It's not the best looking boat on the market.

 

Means of escape?

 

Vetus engines. I had one on a previous boat. Was good.

 

have a look around at other options.

 

Martyn

[alan_fincher]

I've had another look a the photos and noticed the concrete blocks on the stern. Why are they there? Insufficient ballasting perhaps?

My guess was that they are on a "rubber" mat, trying to stop it blowing away.

 

I'm guessing under that black mat, (if that's what it is), is a lid to the engine bay in the cruiser stern.

 

There is a fair chance this has the usual poor design and or blocked channels, and the "black thing" is an attempt to keep rainwater out.

 

Just a guess, though!

[wrigglefingers]

.......

 

I'm assuming the two vertical "tubes" on the stern deck house the Calor gas ? OK, it has a BSC on it, but check these are venting overboard, and that escaped gas could not get into the engine bay.

 

.......

 

 

Alan,

 

There's a gas locker in the bow so I'm guessing that the columns on the stern are locker/seats .....

[koukouvagia]

There are several non standard design features that would worry me: the external gas fittings leading from the cylindrical gas locker look very vulnerable; there are no cants which should be there to prevent you slipping overboard and the unorthodox connection of the rudder to the tiller looks flimsy. However, none of these are fatal and if the survey and price are OK then go for it. BTW the first thing I'd get rid of is the twee wrought iron grill at the front.

[alan_fincher]

BTW the first thing I'd get rid of is the twee wrought iron grill at the front.

Particularly, if, as I fear it may be, it is stopping those front doors / windows being used as a very vital escape route.

 

Lunacy, if the only way out is the back!

[wrigglefingers]

There are several non standard design features that would worry me: the external gas fittings leading from the cylindrical gas locker look very vulnerable; there are no cants which should be there to prevent you slipping overboard and the unorthodox connection of the rudder to the tiller looks flimsy. However, none of these are fatal and if the survey and price are OK then go for it. BTW the first thing I'd get rid of is the twee wrought iron grill at the front.

 

But that's the boat's most original design feature and is a useful security device, besides which it's cute.

 

I don't think at this price the tiller fixing and the lack of cants are a deal stopper but, despite the presence of a bow locker I now agree about the gas cylinders ('cos I was being a bit thick before) and I would also be worried about them. I really, really don't like seeing obstacles on the stern deck having seen someone fall off a taff seat.

[luctor et emergo]

Alan,

 

There's a gas locker in the bow so I'm guessing that the columns on the stern are locker/seats .....

 

 

There is a pipe coming from the nearest (left? Port? ) tube, and inside you can see just what looks like the top of an orange (gas)tank. If they are supposed to be seats, I hope they have removed the seats, as sitting on an open pipe don't seem comfortable. But beside that, they look dangerous, as you are sitting in the sweep of the tiller.

The interior, whilst being a serious matter of personal taste.., looks to be in good shape though, as does the exterior (apart from the scuffing around the hull, but it needs to be blacked anyway).

[wrigglefingers]

Particularly, if, as I fear it may be, it is stopping those front doors / windows being used as a very vital escape route.

 

Lunacy, if the only way out is the back!

 

Particularly in view of all the clutter on the back deck!

[Happy Guy]

Cheers everyone! I am amazed at the response, and the trouble that people will go to to help us newbies out. Thanks again for all the opinions. The tubes at the back are definitely gas lockers, because the locker at the front is a water tank. The front windows open (French window affair), and I would be taking the 'wrought' iron off the front anyway. I thought that I could probably construct some kind of 'banana' shaped plywood seat between the two cylinders, but make them easily removable.

 

To be honest the layout suits us perfectly... I hope to install a nice double bed at the bow, and then have some additional seating in the middle. We're happy with a two berth.

 

I know what you mean about a GRP cruiser... I would feel happier with a steel hull though. Plus my wife has this thing about narrowboats... she prefers the romance I think. For some reason cruisers don;t appeal to her... I think they have a certain charm.

 

Anyway, thanks again for putting so much effort in the replies... I'll let y'all know how I get on!

 

Graham

[Naughty Cal]

Have a good poke around it then, if nothing screams run away, make a cheeky offer subject to survey. The boat has been for sale for a good while now. The owner may accept a low offer.

[Matthew Knowles]

Cheers everyone! I am amazed at the response, and the trouble that people will go to to help us newbies out. Thanks again for all the opinions. The tubes at the back are definitely gas lockers, because the locker at the front is a water tank. The front windows open (French window affair), and I would be taking the 'wrought' iron off the front anyway. I thought that I could probably construct some kind of 'banana' shaped plywood seat between the two cylinders, but make them easily removable.

 

To be honest the layout suits us perfectly... I hope to install a nice double bed at the bow, and then have some additional seating in the middle. We're happy with a two berth.

 

I know what you mean about a GRP cruiser... I would feel happier with a steel hull though. Plus my wife has this thing about narrowboats... she prefers the romance I think. For some reason cruisers don;t appeal to her... I think they have a certain charm.

 

Anyway, thanks again for putting so much effort in the replies... I'll let y'all know how I get on!

 

Graham

 

Well, it's widely accepted that steel narrowboats are far superior to GRP cruisers!

 

 

<hides from Phylis>

[Naughty Cal]

Well, it's widely accepted that steel narrowboats are far superior to GRP cruisers!

 

 

<hides from Phylis>

 

Only by those who live in the south or the midlands

 

The rest of us who have real waterways to play with buy proper boats.

[saltysplash]

Only by those who live in the south or the midlands

 

The rest of us who have real waterways to play with buy proper boats.

 

 

That are incapable of cruising withing the 4mph limit and regularly knock their out drives on sunken objects

[Naughty Cal]

Just out of interest where do you plan on keeping the boat?

 

If your mooring is in the north and you dont plan to venture too far south, why limit yourself to a narrowboat?