Using a generator after 8:00 pm

[NB Alnwick]

Can a wind powered generator be stopped? It is indeed an interesting point. Sometimes, it is not the volume of noise but the frequency that is particularly annoying.

 

The BW conditions do not mention noisy heating systems and there are boats where the heating system makes a lot more noise than a generator - I can imagine that one of these would prove to be very annoying especially if there was one running nearby through the night.

 

My point about power stations and motorways is that we seem to accept the noise and pollution that they produce as necessary - why? Why are they any more necessary than our own power requirements on a boat? This is a hypothetical argument and I am not disputing what the BW regulations say or the interpretation that anyone on here has applied to them. Nevertheless some have categorically said that even when out of earshot, it would be wrong to operate a generator after 8:00 pm - so why is one noise nuisance unacceptable when others are tolerated? Is it that a single boater with a generator is just a much easier target than a motorway - where a significant proportion of the nuisance is caused by drivers deliberately breaking the law by travelling in excess of the legal speed limit?

[churchward]

Can a wind powered generator be stopped? It is indeed an interesting point. Sometimes, it is not the volume of noise but the frequency that is particularly annoying.

 

The BW conditions do not mention noisy heating systems and there are boats where the heating system makes a lot more noise than a generator - I can imagine that one of these would prove to be very annoying especially if there was one running nearby through the night.

 

My point about power stations and motorways is that we seem to accept the noise and pollution that they produce as necessary - why? Why are they any more necessary than our own power requirements on a boat? This is a hypothetical argument and I am not disputing what the BW regulations say or the interpretation that anyone on here has applied to them. Nevertheless some have categorically said that even when out of earshot, it would be wrong to operate a generator after 8:00 pm - so why is one noise nuisance unacceptable when others are tolerated? Is it that a single boater with a generator is just a much easier target than a motorway - where a significant proportion of the nuisance is caused by drivers deliberately breaking the law by travelling in excess of the legal speed limit?

I think Bones put it well enough.

 

It is also true that motorway noise can't be stopped or there is no rule allowing it to be stopped where clearly there is a rule in place as a condition of ones BW license in the case of electricity generation. That fact cannot be got away from by muddying the waters with motorway speeding etc. Car speeders of course when caught are fined or banned from driving so where that rule has been broken there is a consequence if one is caught.

 

As I have said before if I can't hear it I am not worried by a gennie running but if I can and it is after 8pm then I would expect the license terms to be complied with.

 

Another thought is that the license terms do not require me to slow down past moored boats other than the bit about not causing a nuisance but it is convention and guidance that I should. However many people get hot under the collar if someone doesn't slow down. BTW I don't like it if folk don't slow down either. However, say my alternator only works/charges batteries if I have full cruising RPM applied does that allow me to speed past moored boats because I need the batteries to watch TV tonight?

Edited November 21, 2009 by churchward

[Guest User]

I pretty much agree with that if there's no-one around to hear a gennie then fine, otherwise abide by the 8.00 pm rule.

 

However ....

 

<snip> Sometimes, it is not the volume of noise but the frequency that is particularly annoying.<snip>

... for example, the exhaust noise from the flue/vent of diesel heaters is comparatively quiet, but when there's someone moored adjacent running one, the hard-to-describe-blower-whining-noise becomes very intrusive .. especially late in the night when all else is quiet ... and more and more boats have them .... but then I suppose its a bit like music; one person's sooothing melody is another person's hellish cacophony.

[churchward]

I pretty much agree with that if there's no-one around to hear a gennie then fine, otherwise abide by the 8.00 pm rule.

 

However ....

 

 

... for example, the exhaust noise from the flue/vent of diesel heaters is comparatively quiet, but when there's someone moored adjacent running one, the hard-to-describe-blower-whining-noise becomes very intrusive .. especially late in the night when all else is quiet ... and more and more boats have them .... but then I suppose its a bit like music; one person's sooothing melody is another person's hellish cacophony.

Those Eberspacher warm air heater "jet engines" can be pretty noisy if they don't have the silencer fitted to the exhaust for other boats moored nearby. We have one on our boat (don't use it much as we prefer the solid fuel stove) and it was quite noisy outside the boat when running before I fitted the silencer. Mind you one could argue there is more of a "need" to keep warm than there is to watch TV of an evening.

[NB Alnwick]

Those Eberspacher warm air heater "jet engines" can be pretty noisy if they don't have the silencer fitted to the exhaust for other boats moored nearby. We have one on our boat (don't use it much as we prefer the solid fuel stove) and it was quite noisy outside the boat when running before I fitted the silencer. Mind you one could argue there is more of a "need" to keep warm than there is to watch TV of an evening.

 

But providing you are not using those "jet engines" to generate electricity, there is nothing to prevent you from using them aft6er 8:00 pm - unless they are deemed to be that "which will cause damage or nuisance to any other person or their property."

[Keeping Up]

But providing you are not using those "jet engines" to generate electricity, there is nothing to prevent you from using them aft6er 8:00 pm - unless they are deemed to be that "which will cause damage or nuisance to any other person or their property."

They certainly can be a noisy nuisance - and I've seen a number of instances of damage this year where the heat of their exhausts has melted holes in the sides of the plastic floats of pontoons in marinas. One that we saw in Gloucester docks this summer had almost sunk the pontoon by making a big hole very close to the waterline.

[tomsk]

Can a wind powered generator be stopped? It is indeed an interesting point. Sometimes, it is not the volume of noise but the frequency that is particularly annoying.

 

The BW conditions do not mention noisy heating systems and there are boats where the heating system makes a lot more noise than a generator - I can imagine that one of these would prove to be very annoying especially if there was one running nearby through the night.

 

My point about power stations and motorways is that we seem to accept the noise and pollution that they produce as necessary - why? Why are they any more necessary than our own power requirements on a boat? This is a hypothetical argument and I am not disputing what the BW regulations say or the interpretation that anyone on here has applied to them. Nevertheless some have categorically said that even when out of earshot, it would be wrong to operate a generator after 8:00 pm - so why is one noise nuisance unacceptable when others are tolerated? Is it that a single boater with a generator is just a much easier target than a motorway - where a significant proportion of the nuisance is caused by drivers deliberately breaking the law by travelling in excess of the legal speed limit?

 

 

I agree fully with your points regarding running generators after 8.00pm if not disturbing others and done in a reasonable manner (ie running a genny at 1 am is a no-no in my book, regardless of potential disturbance to others) but find the comparison with speeding motorway traffic tenuous. Does a car make much more noise at 90 than 70MPH? I would say no, unless it was a bike with a straight through exhaust or perhaps a Ferrari giving it the beans.

[PaddingtonBear]

Surely all 'rules' etc. are enacted to cope with the lowest common denominator and as Graham is a perfect gentleman in all ways it is hard to conceive of these sorts of 'rools' applying to him as he would always seek to moderate his actions to satisfy the common good. However, if he was a drug crazed, piss head with a couple of 'chav' dogs salivating at the prospect of ripping your throat out running a cage genny 24/7, the situation might be different (sorry Carl for being judgmental:)) and it is these 'boaters' who are often the miscreants.

 

If you want guaranteed reception live on the bank or don't have a tv. (we don't either on the bank or boat)

 

I am shocked at myself for agreeing with both churchward AND sueb - perhaps I need to buy a semi- trad.

[Lady Muck]

Can a wind powered generator be stopped? It is indeed an interesting point. Sometimes, it is not the volume of noise but the frequency that is particularly annoying.

 

You can switch it off, so it doesn't generate electricty, but then it makes a more high pitched whine. Mine was on a very tall scaffold pole so there was no way I could get up there without help. I think it made more noise than my Honda genny when going at full pelt.

[Guest]

You can switch it off, so it doesn't generate electricty, but then it makes a more high pitched whine. Mine was on a very tall scaffold pole so there was no way I could get up there without help. I think it made more noise than my Honda genny when going at full pelt.

Some of the wind gennies that I have heard are way more noisy than our suitcase gennies (Honda and Yamaha) although our agricultural frame genny would be far noisier than a wind genny. I am not against wind gennies, but I consider the blanket 8pm rule for Internal Combustion powered units unfair, when a wind genny can whine away all night.

[Lady Muck]

Noisy tree huggers eh? (I agree with you, BTW)

[DHutch]

When another boater askes me "Do you mind if I run my engine?" I never have the "guts" to say no.

I have to say, i do.

- People that live on without shorepower and work like maybe its difficult, but these people have to be in the great majority and in all honest outside of that i can see very few scenarios where anyone who has a need to run a generator after eight hasnt failed to think things threw very well. The best i can think of of is a gas free boat. but if you've made the decision to be gas free i think largly you have also commited to not cooking after 8 or mooring away from me.

 

 

I would suggest that there is little you can do about road noise with is mainly tyre noise anyway and thats its not even overly affected by speed 60 will sound much like 70, with 80 not sounding any louder although im sure it varys a little. My push bike at 10 is certainly very audiable. I would also suggest that there is little work around for people not travelling around after 8. I proberbly do half my driving outside the hours of 8 and 8 and yesterday was up at 3.30 and wheel spinning through loughborough dragging the trailer kicking and screaming to snetterton by 4am. Nothing really i could do about that bar not go on the trackday given then i had to be signing on a 7.30 and had a polymer engineering practical till 6 the friday evening.

 

 

 

Daniel

[NB Alnwick]

I agree fully with your points regarding running generators after 8.00pm if not disturbing others and done in a reasonable manner (ie running a genny at 1 am is a no-no in my book, regardless of potential disturbance to others) but find the comparison with speeding motorway traffic tenuous. Does a car make much more noise at 90 than 70MPH? I would say no, unless it was a bike with a straight through exhaust or perhaps a Ferrari giving it the beans.

 

Well we have our generator running just now (20:21 - so after 8:00pm) because when we got back to the boat after my Grandson's 18th Birthday Luncheon, our batteries were down to 57% according to our SmartGauge and I have some work to do on the computer - nevertheless, I have been outside to check on the noise level and it certainly cannot be heard from the nearest boat and with an empty field on the other side of the canal and the swollen waters of the River Cherwell audibly gurgling away behind the towpath hedge, I think it is safe to say that we are out of earshot. It is raining outside and the boat nearest to us is running his engine (but we cannot hear it from our boat) presumably also to generate power. So we are complying with the BW guidelines and we are not disturbing anyone unless they choose to stand beside our boat in the rain - even inside the boat it is difficult to hear the generator above the background noise of wind, the River and the M40 in the distance. We will turn it off as soon as we can and most likely within the next half hour. Certainly we would not dream of running the generator later than 10:00 under any circumstances - we would normally expect to be tucked up safely in bed by then

 

To answer the point made by Tomsk above, the motorway noise that carries furthest emanates mainly from vehicle tyres on the metalled surface. The tyre noise from traffic travelling at 50 mph is deemed to be acceptable (this is one of the reasons for the 50 mph speed limit through the built-up area on the A34 Oxford Bye-Pass) but the noise from traffic travelling at 65 mph is more than twice as loud and travels a lot further. Logically, the noise generated by a mass of traffic travelling at 70 to 80 mph will be very much greater because the increase does not demonstrate as a straight line on a graph showing average speeds against noise levels - it increases exponentially . . .

[ditchcrawler]

They certainly can be a noisy nuisance - and I've seen a number of instances of damage this year where the heat of their exhausts has melted holes in the sides of the plastic floats of pontoons in marinas. One that we saw in Gloucester docks this summer had almost sunk the pontoon by making a big hole very close to the waterline.

I saw that, I also saw chared mooring ropes in Debdale Wharf when we were there

 

Some of the wind gennies that I have heard are way more noisy than our suitcase gennies (Honda and Yamaha) although our agricultural frame genny would be far noisier than a wind genny. I am not against wind gennies, but I consider the blanket 8pm rule for Internal Combustion powered units unfair, when a wind genny can whine away all night.

I don't think BW rules say anything about Internal combustion

[DHutch]

I don't think BW rules say anything about Internal combustion

No exactly.

- Proberbly a lot take it to mean that (wind gennys are clean and tree hugging after all...) however i would have no quams in knocking on the window of a boat if they moored next to me and put up a 918 right next to my window.

 

If they where already there with it up i would moor else where without worrying a thing. But if it turned up after ive moored i dont think thats very clever, considerate, or in keeping with the bylaws.

 

 

Daniel

[Guest]

I saw that, I also saw chared mooring ropes in Debdale Wharf when we were there

 

 

I don't think BW rules say anything about Internal combustion

My very point, but most people take the "generator rule" to mean those driven by internal combustion engines. My point is that wind gennies can be just as noisy, even noisier than my internal combustion genny.

[mayalld]

Fair comment. I would consider other people whether on boats or not, that is my nature. It is not rocket science though: All you have to do is walk around the boat with the genny running and see if you can hear it nearby. If you can't chances are neither can others.

 

Depending on your hearing, and the extent to which you become used to a noise, that may be a false assumption.

 

the fact that you can't hear or don't notice the noise doesn't alter the fact that somebody else may hear it and find it annoying.

[carlt]

However, if he was a drug crazed, piss head with a couple of 'chav' dogs salivating at the prospect of ripping your throat out running a cage genny 24/7, the situation might be different (sorry Carl for being judgmental:))

That's okay. I only have one dog

[Naughty Cal]

They certainly can be a noisy nuisance - and I've seen a number of instances of damage this year where the heat of their exhausts has melted holes in the sides of the plastic floats of pontoons in marinas. One that we saw in Gloucester docks this summer had almost sunk the pontoon by making a big hole very close to the waterline.

 

Must have been a very poorly located exhaust for that to happen

 

Having said that we have almost set Cal on fire by forgetting to strap the tool box into the engine bay properly and then it slipped onto the exhaust burning a nice hole in the ratchet starp

[alan_fincher]

Must have been a very poorly located exhaust for that to happen

Yes, but most narrowboats having these wretched forced air diesel heaters ARE poorly designed in that respect.

 

It is very common for them to point out the hull-side, near the rear, not very high above waterline. Scorched banks and pontoons are commonplace, and when they are close to a pontoon or edge it often seems to magnify the racket. I can imagine a plastic surface would have very little chance, (or a GRP boat! ).

 

At the marina we are about to move from, a spanking new, non-liveaboard, has arrived a couple of pontoons up, and seems to think he needs to leave his 'Eber' on permanently, so it is constantly firing up through the day for short periods, and really is quite irritating - if only because it happens maybe every 20 minutes, or so.

 

I have so far resisted the temptation to switch off his landline - which the marina permits if you need power, and another boat is left permanently connected, (there isn't one dediocated socket per boat). Presumably knowing the 12 volt demands of these things, it wouldn't make a noise for too many days after that if I were to!

[Naughty Cal]

Yes, but most narrowboats having these wretched forced air diesel heaters ARE poorly designed in that respect.

 

It is very common for them to point out the hull-side, near the rear, not very high above waterline. Scorched banks and pontoons are commonplace, and when they are close to a pontoon or edge it often seems to magnify the racket. I can imagine a plastic surface would have very little chance, (or a GRP boat! ).

 

Cant say we have a problem in our marina with them. They are (of course) the heater of choice on GRP cruisers so we are surrounded by them. The noise doesnt bother us (i suppose you get used to it) but some are noisier than others. Not seen any scorched boats yet though.

[casper ghost]

This is my 7kw diesel genny, imagine hearing this after 8pm, According to the 'rules' I can happily run this all day before 8pm...it's bl**dy loud

 

[Big COL]

This is my 7kw diesel genny, imagine hearing this after 8pm, According to the 'rules' I can happily run this all day before 8pm...it's bl**dy loud

 

 

Only if no one complains. Should they then the dreaded Dbs come out to play, so many Dbs at differing distances.

What you should rember it's you and your family that are at the greatest risk you're the nearest.

[ditchcrawler]

This is my 7kw diesel genny, imagine hearing this after 8pm, According to the 'rules' I can happily run this all day before 8pm...it's bl**dy loud

I would suggest that you can run your genny whenever you like as its not on your boat or the towing path.

[FrigateCaptain]

Our motors running right now and its 21:27, Its powering the laptop. if certain moored boats in the area complain does that mean i

can slip there ropes when they have the engine running under load?

Dont half throw our boat about