PRM Gearbox Oil Change

[steelaway]

Valid point!

 

 

I am pretty sure no one on here would recommend using a semi synthetic oil in any narrowboat.

 

Alex

[Cosmic]

Or you can get one for half the price:

 

Suction gun

The reviews don't look too promising for that one, though - even the one positive review said it took about 20 goes to get a litre out.

[journeyperson]

The reviews don't look too promising for that one, though - even the one positive review said it took about 20 goes to get a litre out.

 

Even the brass one with its different lengths and diameter tubing is quite tricky to use in an awkward confined space. Trying to keep one tube at the bottom of the sump, another in the neck of the receiving container whilst operating the pump handle takes a bit of co-ordination. It does work though.

 

Edited to say it probably helps if you can play the Uillean pipes.

Edited November 12, 2009 by journeyperson

[alan_fincher]

Valid point!

 

 

I am pretty sure no one on here would recommend using a semi synthetic oil in any narrowboat.

 

Alex

Alex,

 

I'm probably being dense, but I'm not seeing the connection.

 

Can you explain, please ?

[Bide Your Time]

Alex,

 

I'm probably being dense, but I'm not seeing the connection.

 

Can you explain, please ?

I guess it's a ref to my earlier post saying I've used semi synth in the Beta engine. Sice it's required in most modern diesel cars, why not a NB engine?

[bottle]

Because narrow boat engines are not modern car engines and Beta says (in their latest manual)

 

Quote:

 

Engine oil quality should have the minimum properties of the American Petroleum Institute "API" classification CF (CD or CE).

 

:Unquote

 

it also says

 

Quote:

 

A good quality SAE 15W/40 mineral based multigrade oil used in most car diesel engines will meet requirements.

 

Do Not Use 'Turbo Diesel Oil' or additives, and the use of synthetic oil is not recommended

 

:Unquote

 

Note: it was previously stated that only API. CC was suitable, it may well be for older engines still the recommended specification but a phone call to the manufacturer/mariniser of an engine would confirm.

 

Edit: sticky fingers.

Edited November 13, 2009 by bottle

[Bide Your Time]

Thanks, bottle.

 

The oil I used has been used in the engine by the previous owner, I quess with no ill effects, and it's in now. My Beta handbook doesn't have any anti semi-synth entry.

 

I'll revert to mineral next time.

[Big COL]

Because narrow boat engines are not modern car engines and Beta says (in their latest manual)

 

Quote:

 

Engine oil quality should have the minimum properties of the American Petroleum Institute "API" classification CF (CD or CE).

 

:Unquote

 

it also says

 

Quote:

 

A good quality SAE 15W/40 mineral based multigrade oil used in most car diesel engines will meet requirements.

 

Do Not Use 'Turbo Diesel Oil' or additives, and the use of synthetic oil is not recommended

 

:Unquote

 

Note: it was previously stated that only API. CC was suitable, it may well be for older engines still the recommended specification but a phone call to the manufacturer/mariniser of an engine would confirm.

 

Edit: sticky fingers.

 

Interesting, manufacturers state lots of differing guff about oil. True fact is mineral oils are getting harder to obtain, some large vacuum pumps run on a straight mineral 30 grade, this is starting to become rocking horse sh-- you can still get it but at a price.

We changed over to part synthetic on our diesel vehicles two or three years ago, and that did not take into account how old or how many miles the engines had covered. There have been no ill effects to date, it seems to be general practise to use part synthetic in smaller garages, I can't speak for the main agents I would think they are on full synthetic.

Mercedes have been using full synthetic for years, we had a new Mercedes van and after its pdi the next service was at 55,000k, reason given it was running on full synthetic and did not carbon up as it would running on mineral oil.

Go figure as I just don't know.

[Nickhlx]

I wonder / worry that some of the stuff put about by oil companies, and to an extent engine manufacturers, is how INFREQUENTLY oil needs to be changed with their engines or oils.. in an attempt to sway (lure ?) you towards their products...

 

I think few would argue that during use, an oil is subjected to some quite wide variations of temperature, humidity from these temperature changes and products of combustion, carbon from blowpast and burning, metal particles being worn off surfaces which are in close proximity / touching at times, even just briefly during startup perhaps .. etc etc...

 

So there will be a time limit for effective life of an oil, measured in a combination of months and heat cycles / engine starts...

 

Naturally some oils with effective additive packages will delay the deterioration of the oil, so making it last longer...

 

For those who want their engines to last a good long life (me) I would think it prudent to change it at least once a year, however little use it is given, and probably at the end of the "busy season", probably in Autumn for most people, so the acid-laden oil is not sitting in the engine for maybe 5 or six months over winter... Others may think that around £20 an oil-change, it is cheap enough to do the oil-change twice a year - it's not particularly expensive compared with fixing broken or prematurely worn out engines...

 

Oils today are really a lot better than even 10 years ago, so assuming it is of a viscosity appropriate to the engine and close to the original requirements of the manufacturer, then all should be well... I think it is more important to change oil more frequently, than to change it less frequently using a more expensive oil, as the oil will definitely be degraded with use and collect impurities during its life. Most canal boat engines are working at pretty low specific power outputs and are low-stressed, ( less than 20 bhp / litre) which in turn will not be demanding oils appropriate for a F1 racing car engine with maybe power outputs of 800bhp from ? 3 litres or ten times the output.......

 

Nick

 

Nick

[Big COL]

I wonder / worry that some of the stuff put about by oil companies, and to an extent engine manufacturers, is how INFREQUENTLY oil needs to be changed with their engines or oils.. in an attempt to sway (lure ?) you towards their products...

 

I think few would argue that during use, an oil is subjected to some quite wide variations of temperature, humidity from these temperature changes and products of combustion, carbon from blowpast and burning, metal particles being worn off surfaces which are in close proximity / touching at times, even just briefly during startup perhaps .. etc etc...

 

So there will be a time limit for effective life of an oil, measured in a combination of months and heat cycles / engine starts...

 

Naturally some oils with effective additive packages will delay the deterioration of the oil, so making it last longer...

 

For those who want their engines to last a good long life (me) I would think it prudent to change it at least once a year, however little use it is given, and probably at the end of the "busy season", probably in Autumn for most people, so the acid-laden oil is not sitting in the engine for maybe 5 or six months over winter... Others may think that around £20 an oil-change, it is cheap enough to do the oil-change twice a year - it's not particularly expensive compared with fixing broken or prematurely worn out engines...

 

Oils today are really a lot better than even 10 years ago, so assuming it is of a viscosity appropriate to the engine and close to the original requirements of the manufacturer, then all should be well... I think it is more important to change oil more frequently, than to change it less frequently using a more expensive oil, as the oil will definitely be degraded with use and collect impurities during its life. Most canal boat engines are working at pretty low specific power outputs and are low-stressed, ( less than 20 bhp / litre) which in turn will not be demanding oils appropriate for a F1 racing car engine with maybe power outputs of 800bhp from ? 3 litres or ten times the output.......

 

Nick

 

Nick

 

The other side of the coin to changing acid ladened oil in the autumn is that over the winter serious condensations will take place. An accumulation of water could be added to the fresh oil and on commencement of the new season one could start off with a water contaminated oil.

Perhaps we should empty the sump and leave the drain plug out until the new season and then refill with clean oil.

Did I just write that? Where are we going with all this Bol---s, for years engines have survived under normal oil changes, why complicate a simple situation.

 

Ps anyone interested in joining the flat earth society please pm me

[Nickhlx]

The other side of the coin to changing acid ladened oil in the autumn is that over the winter serious condensations will take place. An accumulation of water could be added to the fresh oil and on commencement of the new season one could start off with a water contaminated oil.

Perhaps we should empty the sump and leave the drain plug out until the new season and then refill with clean oil.

Did I just write that? Where are we going with all this Bol---s, for years engines have survived under normal oil changes, why complicate a simple situation.

 

Ps anyone interested in joining the flat earth society please pm me

 

 

Yes you do have a point - but even if the engine were empty over winter there would still be condensation within in Spring... so I would think you need to change it in Spring too, or after any long period of non-use.

 

So I guess we are just back to "regular changes" then ?

 

Nick

[Guest]

Yes you do have a point - but even if the engine were empty over winter there would still be condensation within in Spring... so I would think you need to change it in Spring too, or after any long period of non-use.

 

So I guess we are just back to "regular changes" then ?

 

Nick

That is what I do: Change filter and oil at back end of season. We run it now and again over winter, although I prefer to use the genny for battery charging where possible. Change oil and filter again in spring. Then usually one change half way through our summer trip.

[Nickhlx]

That is what I do: Change filter and oil at back end of season. We run it now and again over winter, although I prefer to use the genny for battery charging where possible. Change oil and filter again in spring. Then usually one change half way through our summer trip.

 

That sounds like a recipe for a happy engine !!

 

Nick