BW incompetence (again)

[Chris Pink]

A example of complete and utter incompetence and total disregard for the treatment of our heritage.

 

http://www.narrowboatworld.com/index.php?o...t&Itemid=16

 

Can anyone tell me what is wrong in this picture?

[alan_fincher]

A example of complete and utter incompetence and total disregard for the treatment of our heritage.

 

http://www.narrowboatworld.com/index.php?o...t&Itemid=16

 

Can anyone tell me what is wrong in this picture?

Well I'm not sure I know what you mean, but those slings look a deal closer together than ideal, possibly ?

 

I don't imagine I'm even warm though, am I ?

[Timleech]

A example of complete and utter incompetence and total disregard for the treatment of our heritage.

 

http://www.narrowboatworld.com/index.php?o...t&Itemid=16

 

Can anyone tell me what is wrong in this picture?

 

Well, the strops do seem rather close together with no spreaders, I wouldn't want to see that with a boat where there was serious doubt about its condition.

Also they won't be doing the ends of the bottom boards any good at the lifting points, I don't know whether there is a standard work around for that when lifting composite boats? (better not to lift them, dry-dock them )

[GUMPY]

A example of complete and utter incompetence and total disregard for the treatment of our heritage.

 

http://www.narrowboatworld.com/index.php?o...t&Itemid=16

 

Can anyone tell me what is wrong in this picture?

 

Two things I can see

1: no spreader frame on the lift

2: looks like a boat being pulled through underneath

3: crane leg down on grass and on the coping stones could cause it to tip if it gave way

 

Oh that was 3

 

oh and if it did fall it would take out 4 boats not just one!

 

is the enough?

[twbm]

I'd go for the slings, and that if it goes wrong the slung boat will take out three other heritage boats?

 

Still - - as long as he's wearing his yellow jacket ...

Edited November 11, 2009 by twbm

[Timleech]

Two things I can see

1: no spreader frame on the lift

2: looks like a boat being pulled through underneath

3: crane leg down on grass and on the coping stones could cause it to tip if it gave way

 

Oh that was 3

 

oh and if it did fall it would take out 4 boats not just one!

 

is the enough?

 

I don't think you're right on No2, but 3 is right, unless they were very sure of the condition of that wall it was very dodgy. Not entirely fair to blame BW for the errors, the crane contractors would bear responsibility for them? Having said that, BW are usually very strict on where you are allowed to use cranes near their water.

 

Tim

[Big COL]

A example of complete and utter incompetence and total disregard for the treatment of our heritage.

 

http://www.narrowboatworld.com/index.php?o...t&Itemid=16

 

Can anyone tell me what is wrong in this picture?

 

Whatever is perceived to be wrong, one thing is certain. A risk assessment will have been carried out either by BW or the crane company if they were contractors. You try and hire a crane these days, not only expensive but bogged down with little people legislation ( Elf and his mate safety )

[luctor et emergo]

The slings have no spreader bars, risking collapse of the boats hullsides?

 

And the slings look rather close together, but that might be the angle of the photograph.

 

As for the position of the crane's outriggers, I don't think that the weight of the boat is that substantial.

[Big COL]

The slings have no spreader bars, risking collapse of the boats hullsides?

 

And the slings look rather close together, but that might be the angle of the photograph.

 

As for the position of the crane's outriggers, I don't think that the weight of the boat is that substantial.

 

Spreader bars could be low down, one point though if the guy in the yellow jacket is the banksman he is in the wrong position, the crane operator should be taking instructions via hand signals from his banksman in this picture this would not be possible

[matty40s]

we havn't had a competition on here in ages,

 

 

is anyone warm yet

[bottle]

Observation: the man in the yellow jacket is attached to the boats bow by a rope.

 

No other comments as not of the required competency to judge.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

A example of complete and utter incompetence and total disregard for the treatment of our heritage.

 

http://www.narrowboatworld.com/index.php?o...t&Itemid=16

 

Can anyone tell me what is wrong in this picture?

 

In addition to what has been said it looks like it needs at least another control rope on the boat and perhaps someone controlling the operation.

 

I happend to be at Hatton a couple of years back when BW was craning out a wooden boat in the lock outside Hatton Meeting Rooms (as BW calls the place). There was some guy with a camera there who said he had seen BW crane out about a dozen wooden boats and each one had broken in half. So knowledgeable it could have been Carl! I stuck around and sure enough the boat ended up in two halves - sad sight.

 

In my experience, the use of spreaders does not seem very widespread (if you get my drift). Certainly I have never seen AB Tuckey use them.

[DHutch]

Although possibly not the best craning operation in the world it doesnt stupidly outragious to me.

- Yes the use of a lifting frame would be ideal, yes the crane could be better footed, maybe a few other points.

 

However, the straps are long so the angle they make slim. The boat will be a relativly light load. And as a steel sided boat is not as fragile as an all wooden boat.

 

Also, as far as i know this was a 3rd part company doing a lift for Ellesmere Port. Nothing to do with BW as such?

 

 

Daniel

[DHutch]

This is what can happen when you get it wrong!

 

Although the damage is not visible in the photo it was reported at the time that one of the rivetted joints in the side failed, and the hull virtually split in two.

Chain proberbly didnt break either, just slipped, if it was short enough, being used without a frame.

- Frames are always good, partiuarly if your doing the same thing (ie boats) a lot. But with the correct slings and lenghts its not wrong to lift without.

 

 

Daniel

[Chris Pink]

Prizes all round, i thought you'd get it..

 

The strops are much too close together, and although i can accept there must have been some discussion of centre of gravity i am not sure how you would assess it accurately with the boat in the water.

 

I am quite tempted to do the sums about the centre of gravity stability and forces on the hull. Sea going boats get broken by being supported at bow and stern so I am guessing (I'm not a an engineer) the forces on the centre of the hull must have been enormous.

 

I am guessing there was a cross beam inside to stop the sides bending, it was the forces fore and aft (if you know what i mean) that made me look again.

 

Presumably this is Mendip “She requires extensive repairs to her hull.”

 

It was a little unfair of me though to automatically blame British Waterways, they don't do much actual playing with the canals any more do they?

 

I'm quite impressed that some of the posters have said 20 tonnes is "relativly light load" and "not that substantial".

Edited November 12, 2009 by Chris Pink

[DHutch]

I'm quite impressed that some of the posters have said 20 tonnes is "relativly light load" and "not that substantial".

Although, given where the strops are, the boat seems to be empty not unexpected, in whichcase it will weigh a heck of a less than 20tonnes. Maybe half that.

 

Place the strops tofar apart however and you increase the angle of them and the chance of them slipping unless there made much longer or a frame used.

 

As for finding the CG, this is done by simply trial and error (you can estmate is fairly well to start) as you just lift it light in on place and see how it moves.

[Kez]

Not wishing to be pedantic, ibut you mean the centre of mass

Also, we can't see what measures they've put in the boat to give her strength, so we can't say whether she'd be in imminent danger and the length of the straps give an inaccurate sight of how big the pressure point on the hull is. I'd be more worried that there's three boats in the way should anything go wrong and the flying boat briefly takes up sky-diving

[Graham Davis]

But why is it's BW's incompetence?

 

The incompetent person there was the crane operator, as it is he who is in charge of any load he picks up.

[magpie patrick]

Although, given where the strops are, the boat seems to be empty not unexpected, in whichcase it will weigh a heck of a less than 20tonnes. Maybe half that.

 

Place the strops tofar apart however and you increase the angle of them and the chance of them slipping unless there made much longer or a frame used.

 

As for finding the CG, this is done by simply trial and error (you can estmate is fairly well to start) as you just lift it light in on place and see how it moves.

 

I think you'll find the tare weight of a narrow boat is around the 20 tonne mark, especially if it still have engine and fittings in it

[Chris Pink]

But why is it's BW's incompetence?

 

The incompetent person there was the crane operator, as it is he who is in charge of any load he picks up.

 

The owner of the boat is the one who has the responsibility to ensure that it's not going to break when lifted. My initial impression (as a ignorant bystander) is that the position of the strops is likely to result in damage to the boat.

[Timleech]

I think you'll find the tare weight of a narrow boat is around the 20 tonne mark, especially if it still have engine and fittings in it

 

My guess would be about 10 to 12 tons

 

Tim

[adam1uk]

The owner of the boat is the one who has the responsibility to ensure that it's not going to break when lifted.

 

And is that BW, or not?

[Timleech]

And is that BW, or not?

 

Not exactly.

Is it the Waterways Trust in that particular case??

 

Tim

[adam1uk]

Not exactly.

Is it the Waterways Trust in that particular case??

 

Tim

 

So not BW incompetence then.

[Chris Pink]

So not BW incompetence then.

 

The Waterways Trust is the charitable arm of British Waterways, now go an pick nits with someone else please.

 

I am really fussed about who's responsibility it is because none of these people are accountable in any way but i am bothered about the 1/60,000,000th of Mendip that belongs to me.

Edited November 12, 2009 by Chris Pink