Boat Building Delays

[Ally]

The builder is sound, credit checks done and they pay their bills on time.

They are building the boat totally shell and all.

They are a busy yard, maybe that is a small part of the problem....too much work.

The issue was with the supply of wood, they use the same supplier for wood all the time but the batch for my boat de veneered, they argued with the supplier and got a new batch, but like the bad batch it has to be cut and laquered and fitted.

This has put us back 4 weeks and they close for 2 weeks at Xmas so 6 weeks in total.

My worry is a lack of communication in all this we were steaming ahead selling everything, sleeping now on just a mattress, living out of boxes and have now rented out our house.............were will we live from January 2nd 2010???

We are mad but caught between a rock and a hard place, we know the boat will be superb, they are going to use it as a show boat, with a full video for the internet, the workmanship will be amazing I am sure but I still have no where to live soon plus we won't have the time to bring the boat home ourselves due to work commitments, someone will have to deliver it now and we will have to move on at a weekend when it is back to our residential mooring. Not the start to living aboard we had planned.

That's cleared a lot up! I think you should really be happy the builders have returned the ply and quibbled...god knows you wouldn't have wanted it on your boat. Things sometimes have to be looked at longterm, and whilst frustrating in the short term...how much more frustrated would you have been to either have your walls peel away, or be without your boat within a year whilst it was rebuilt.

I am suprised you considered this reason for terminating a contract for a boat that sounds as if you will, eventually, be very proud of.

Perhaps we all live a little short term these days, and all need to look to the distance more often for our fullfillments in life.

I am sure someone will put you up for weeks or so, or you can find a short let somewhere. Think of it as an adventure!

[Doorman]

Do you actually have the boat, if not then..........................................

 

 

Sail it back from builder's basin next week..........................................

[Doorman]

You cannot spot a failing company by looking at it's heritage. The magnificence or the volume of their work mean nothing in relation to their current solvency, nothing. The best you can hope for is perhaps an employee letting something slip, or a supplier complaining about poor or non-payments.

 

 

 

Penalty Clauses are difficult. If your builder has run over time and you are hitting him with a penalty reduction in price, you may have wiped out all the profit for him. Now your boat is a heartbreaking pointless waste of time for him and he will have little or no interest in finishing it quickly, if at all.

 

 

Hey you! I've just spent 10 minutes trying to flick a bug from the upper left hand side of my screen, only to find it's your bloody bug

[heyjude999]

I know, I know.....

We are paying a visit this wekend and intend to tighten up the 'rules of engagement' to avoid further delays.

Anyone got a short term let???

 

That's cleared a lot up! I think you should really be happy the builders have returned the ply and quibbled...god knows you wouldn't have wanted it on your boat. Things sometimes have to be looked at longterm, and whilst frustrating in the short term...how much more frustrated would you have been to either have your walls peel away, or be without your boat within a year whilst it was rebuilt.

I am suprised you considered this reason for terminating a contract for a boat that sounds as if you will, eventually, be very proud of.

Perhaps we all live a little short term these days, and all need to look to the distance more often for our fullfillments in life.

I am sure someone will put you up for weeks or so, or you can find a short let somewhere. Think of it as an adventure!

[mikevye]

To order a new boat in the current economic climate is plain stupid and anyone doing so must need their bumps feeling. Project time forward just one month and the VAT rate will increase but to what rate?? Don't assume for one minute what it will be but I wouldn't rule out 20%. On that projection you might as well throw £15k out of the window on a standard build. The rose tinted glasses brigade assume that the moment the boat is launched its sail into the sunset time. WRONG thats when the owner starts to put right all the problems not undertaken on dry land and the never ending jobs to do list starts!

[Chagall]

To order a new boat in the current economic climate is plain stupid and anyone doing so must need their bumps feeling. Project time forward just one month and the VAT rate will increase but to what rate?? Don't assume for one minute what it will be but I wouldn't rule out 20%. On that projection you might as well throw £15k out of the window on a standard build. The rose tinted glasses brigade assume that the moment the boat is launched its sail into the sunset time. WRONG thats when the owner starts to put right all the problems not undertaken on dry land and the never ending jobs to do list starts!

 

 

'mikevye'....sometimes life isn't all about money? .....no offence intended.

[mikevye]

'mikevye'....sometimes life isn't all about money? .....no offence intended.

 

in that case you should treat yourself to a new cardy.

[number four]

To order a new boat in the current economic climate is plain stupid and anyone doing so must need their bumps feeling. Project time forward just one month and the VAT rate will increase but to what rate?? Don't assume for one minute what it will be but I wouldn't rule out 20%. On that projection you might as well throw £15k out of the window on a standard build. The rose tinted glasses brigade assume that the moment the boat is launched its sail into the sunset time. WRONG thats when the owner starts to put right all the problems not undertaken on dry land and the never ending jobs to do list starts!

 

its this sort of talk that creates a self fulfiling profercy

we should be suporting our industries

i got 5% discount for buildind in an empty slot at there conviance, cant get 5% on my savings!

as to the vat ask for the yard to invoice you befor jan and that will create the tax point at 15%

then pay in chunks as agreed they can account for it as though you were a late or bad payer

 

have been caught out between house and boat befor and rented a holiday let out of season gat a list from local torist info and ring them, offer cash to let you have it out of season they proberly wont belive there luck.

if you have booked the time of work for the delivery move and cant get it moved then put boxes in self storage and get a cheep all inclusive holliday somewere warm make somthing of it.

i did had 2 weeks driving round US used internet cafe to keep in touch had a gerat time came back to holiday cotage for 3 weeks and then on to boat IT WAS WORTH THE WATE

[WJM]

"They are a busy yard, ...."

 

Please, Please, Please!!!!! Being busy is NOT NOT NOT a measure of a company's financial health!!! It means nothing! I meet out-of-work people regularly who say "but we were busy"! In a contracting economy like ours, an initial reaction for less well managed companies is to begin selling on price, that is undercutting the opposition. Yes, they fill their order books, but soon the busy fools discover that they are loosing money, soon after, they go pop!

 

I would almost go so far as to say, in the present economic climate, being very busy is a sign of financial weakness!

[Albion]

To order a new boat in the current economic climate is plain stupid and anyone doing so must need their bumps feeling. Project time forward just one month and the VAT rate will increase but to what rate?? Don't assume for one minute what it will be but I wouldn't rule out 20%. On that projection you might as well throw £15k out of the window on a standard build. The rose tinted glasses brigade assume that the moment the boat is launched its sail into the sunset time. WRONG thats when the owner starts to put right all the problems not undertaken on dry land and the never ending jobs to do list starts!

 

It's plain stupid ....in your opinion. While it is true that VAT is likely to rise during the life of a new build started soon, that is not necessarily a reason not to buy new. When the VAT rises, which it almost certainly will due to the black hole in our finances.........but will be sold as bringing us into line with Europe where VAT is close to 20%..........it will remain there forever, or certainly for the foreseeable future.........................so what are we supposed to do, never buy another new product? If you have the money and can accept a VAT rise (however frustrating that may be) and you want a bespoke boat built to your design then go for it, after doing whatever checks you feel comfortable give you confidence in the yard.

Yes, there will be warranty issues, it is a hand-built bespoke product after all and not produced on a production line by robots. You have warranty issues with cars, for example, and they are built by a production process that is infinitely more controlled and mechanised than a boat.

 

"They are a busy yard, ...."

 

Please, Please, Please!!!!! Being busy is NOT NOT NOT a measure of a company's financial health!!! It means nothing! I meet out-of-work people regularly who say "but we were busy"! In a contracting economy like ours, an initial reaction for less well managed companies is to begin selling on price, that is undercutting the opposition. Yes, they fill their order books, but soon the busy fools discover that they are loosing money, soon after, they go pop!

 

I would almost go so far as to say, in the present economic climate, being very busy is a sign of financial weakness!

 

Yes, busy is not necessarily a sign of financial stability, that is true. It can, however, be just one indicator which, taken with others, can allow you to make a judgement about the boatyard of your choice. Selling on cheap price has always been a dodgy indicator of success with any business because, if price is your only USP (unique selling proposition) then you can be undercut at any time by anybody. That has always been true in boom times as well as recession.

As for the implication that a busy operation is likely to be a sign of financial instability that is just ridiculous. It can be of course, but shouldn't be taken as evidence not to buy from there. Many businesses are surviving the recession well and some are not, but busy-ness is not a complete and sole indicator of financial stability or instability.

Roger

[emkay]

Well said Albion and honestly "being very busy is a sign of financial weakness" it's much easier to make a profitable business plan if you've got good cashflow, impossible if you don't. This thread has got overheated, somebody posts a query about a boat being delayed and within a few hours it's Armageddon in the boat industry and the poor poster is being told her dreams are gurgling down the plughole, far more likely the builders are telling the truth and they had poor laminate delivered, these things happen! Yes it's difficult out there but the flip side is that there has never been a better time to order a new boat! Negotiate hard, take reasonable steps to ensure that the boat remains your property at all times, pay for the main hardware (hull, engine, webasto etc) directly if you really want to be on the safe side and any receiver would not have their sticky fingers on it for long if things did go belly up. At the end of the day you could end up with a new boat for little more than the cost of a 5-10 year old second hand one and have all the joy of designing it, planning it and watching it go into the water for the first time. Good luck heyjude post some pics when it goes into the water for the first time

[heyjude999]

It's in the water and has been boarded out now, ready for the bulkheads. (waiting for the boarding to de veneer - ha ha ha)

 

Tried to upload photos before with no joy at all.

 

Oh crikey, as usual such a range of opinions.

 

I am confident from the work in the yard, the in detail credit check etc they will NOT go bump. I would cast no aspertions on the standard of their work or finances.

 

I am frustrated as in my industry before I was unemployed, you had to walk the talk and delay was never an option, those are my personal business standards and I had an expectation that other industries would follow suit - thank God I am not planning a career in boating. That coupled with good communication are to me the foundation of any business - but what do I know?

 

I suppose only time will tell now, looking for somewhere to rent, as a holiday is sadly not an option due to work commitments, you have to do that when it is there in this climate. (well the other half has to).

 

I will pack the boxes and allow someone else to sail the boat home.

 

I hope (I really do) that in Feb next year when you see the video of the boat it will restore your faith in the industry a tad........................or will it?

Well said Albion and honestly "being very busy is a sign of financial weakness" it's much easier to make a profitable business plan if you've got good cashflow, impossible if you don't. This thread has got overheated, somebody posts a query about a boat being delayed and within a few hours it's Armageddon in the boat industry and the poor poster is being told her dreams are gurgling down the plughole, far more likely the builders are telling the truth and they had poor laminate delivered, these things happen! Yes it's difficult out there but the flip side is that there has never been a better time to order a new boat! Negotiate hard, take reasonable steps to ensure that the boat remains your property at all times, pay for the main hardware (hull, engine, webasto etc) directly if you really want to be on the safe side and any receiver would not have their sticky fingers on it for long if things did go belly up. At the end of the day you could end up with a new boat for little more than the cost of a 5-10 year old second hand one and have all the joy of designing it, planning it and watching it go into the water for the first time. Good luck heyjude post some pics when it goes into the water for the first time

[Doorman]

To order a new boat in the current economic climate is plain stupid and anyone doing so must need their bumps feeling. Project time forward just one month and the VAT rate will increase but to what rate?? Don't assume for one minute what it will be but I wouldn't rule out 20%. On that projection you might as well throw £15k out of the window on a standard build. The rose tinted glasses brigade assume that the moment the boat is launched its sail into the sunset time. WRONG thats when the owner starts to put right all the problems not undertaken on dry land and the never ending jobs to do list starts!

 

Sounds like at some point in your boating life, you've chosen the wrong boat builder!

 

Mike

[Albion]

It's in the water and has been boarded out now, ready for the bulkheads. (waiting for the boarding to de veneer - ha ha ha)

 

Tried to upload photos before with no joy at all.

 

Oh crikey, as usual such a range of opinions.

 

I am confident from the work in the yard, the in detail credit check etc they will NOT go bump. I would cast no aspersions on the standard of their work or finances.

 

I am frustrated as in my industry before I was unemployed, you had to walk the talk and delay was never an option, those are my personal business standards and I had an expectation that other industries would follow suit - thank God I am not planning a career in boating. That coupled with good communication are to me the foundation of any business - but what do I know?

 

You are perfectly correct and there is no real excuse for lack of communication. However, many of these guys have sprung up from being the work force in another boat builder and, if they didn't see suitable business principles being adopted there then, they are unlikely to bring them to their new business. Just because someone is running a business it doesn't mean that they are a skilled businessman!

 

I suppose only time will tell now, looking for somewhere to rent, as a holiday is sadly not an option due to work commitments, you have to do that when it is there in this climate. (well the other half has to).

 

I will pack the boxes and allow someone else to sail the boat home.

 

If your boat is to be finished in the early months of next year please don't forget to check the BW winter stoppages that might affect its journey home or else you might suddenly find that you have to factor in another month in your temporary accommodation. Depends entirely on the actual completion date of course and we know what boat builders are like

 

Roger

 

I hope (I really do) that in Feb next year when you see the video of the boat it will restore your faith in the industry a tad........................or will it?

Edited November 11, 2009 by Albion

[mikevye]

It's in the water and has been boarded out now, ready for the bulkheads. (waiting for the boarding to de veneer - ha ha ha)

 

I hope (I really do) that in Feb next year when you see the video of the boat it will restore your faith in the industry a tad........................or will it?

 

And I do to! and I mean that most sincerely folks!!!!!!! However I would be more than worried in your situation. The status of your current build would suggest that a lot of the hard work is still to do and its already on the water. This makes any project work twice as hard to do as any sailaway will testify. I really hope your optimism is rewarded and my pesimism is proved wrong.

 

 

[/color]

 

Sounds like at some point in your boating life, you've chosen the wrong boat builder!

 

Mike

 

Lets put it this way doorman, three years on I'm still working on the boat getting it to be what I want. not what someone else thought I wanted! Sufficient reasons to be able to comment on this topic anyway.

[Doorman]

And I do to! and I mean that most sincerely folks!!!!!!! However I would be more than worried in your situation. The status of your current build would suggest that a lot of the hard work is still to do and its already on the water. This makes any project work twice as hard to do as any sailaway will testify. I really hope your optimism is rewarded and my pesimism is proved wrong.

 

 

 

i

Lets put it this way doorman, three years on I'm still working on the boat getting it to be what I want. not what someone else thought I wanted! Sufficient reasons to be able to comment on this topic anyway.

 

Been there and worn the 'T' shirt and totally satisfying it's been! With regard to your comment of "not what someone else thought I wanted", this also indicates that

you've had a less than pleasing experience, somewhere down the line, with a service provider of your choice. When we bought our first boat it was less

than satisfying to find numerous faults (some downright dangerous ones) on board. After screaming and bemoaning about our plight, I reconciled myself to the

fact that it was my choice of boat, therefore, I had to shoulder some of the responsibilty!

 

Rather than constantly winge about the situation, I set about rectifying the problems by eventually totally re-fitting the boat. We now have a 20 year old narrowboat with

an internal fit-out in keeping with a modern styled bespoke layout, which is totally comfortable and most importantly, safe.

 

The boat was origionally bought as a stop-gap while waiting for a new boat to be built to our design and requirements. We are fortunate in so much that we've

had the time to enjoy living on the boat while awaiting the completion of the new build.

 

With regard to the new build, we spent months seeking out a respected and well establshed boatbuilder who satisfied our desire to have the craft built from start to

finish. This we felt was important, as we very nearly employed the services of an up-and-coming boat fitter, who only finished the boat off after he'd

bought the hull in from elsewhere! The difference in professionalism between the the two was incredible, not to mention the method of stage payment.

 

We have enjoyed the build process from drawing board to final commission, whereby the input from ourselves was given due consideration, while the advice

from the builder was well received and respected. Everything we asked for was implemented as per request, providing of course, it was feasible.

 

You could say we were lucky to have found such a builder when it appears from some comments, that the industry is plagued with half-wits. I would prefer

to acknowledge the satisfaction of doing our homework before parting with the results of a lifetime of downright hard graft!

 

Good luck with your project.

 

Mike

[bottle]

SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

With regard to the new build, we spent months seeking out a respected and well establshed boatbuilder who satisfied our desire to have the craft built from start to finish. This we felt was important,

 

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<SNIP

 

We have enjoyed the build process from drawing board to final commission, whereby the input from ourselves was given due consideration, while the advice from the builder was well received and respected. Everything we asked for was implemented as per request, providing of course, it was feasible.

 

You could say we were lucky to have found such a builder when it appears from some comments, that the industry is plagued with half-wits. I would prefer to acknowledge the satisfaction of doing our homework before parting with the results of a lifetime of downright hard graft!

 

Good luck with your project.

 

Mike

 

Mike

 

Hope you do not mind the edits, it saved me typing very similar.

 

The only difference, we went with a specialist shell builder and a separate fitting out company.

 

The only fault is a printed circuit board in the inverter/charger, cannot blame builder for that, should be sorted soon part on the way from Holland.

[Ark Right]

Has anyone on this forum got anything good to say about boat builders / fitters. If we were to believe the few on here, then there isn't a single satisfied customer owning a boat. Not all builders / fitters are rogues and thieves and some actually do as asked, at the quoted price and on time... Yes believe it or not on time !!

 

Its very easy to note all the bad with everything, the thing we don't hear about enough are the good results.

Then first impressions are telling me Victor Meldrew would be in his element here.

Lighten up girls and boys ... Chatting to boaters out on the cut, there are loads more satisfied with their build experience than not.

[alan_fincher]

Chatting to boaters out on the cut, there are loads more satisfied with their build experience than not.

Yes, I accept that is probably true, although one might hope for better than 50%!

 

But if even only one or two percent of people who think they have done all their research as fully as they can get completely stuffed by a company folding, the fact that 98 or 99 percent didn't get the same problem doesn't really help them, does it?

 

I'm sorry to keep returning to the single example of 'Pav', but it is one that very adequately demonstrates the problem, and where many on here are familiar with the story.

 

He tried so hard to get it right, asking countless intelligent questions on here before he made his choice of builder.

 

The builder was a long established firm, apparently highly regarded, and with no suspicion that anything was about to go wrong.

 

If I had thrown everything into a dream, I could not afford to find myself in the situation he ended up in.

 

Whatever you say, it's a minefield, IMO - I can't see how you can prove that any builder is bullet-proof, in these difficult times.

 

You are not a builder or associated with a builder, are you ?

[Keeping Up]

Has anyone on this forum got anything good to say about boat builders / fitters. If we were to believe the few on here, then there isn't a single satisfied customer owning a boat. Not all builders / fitters are rogues and thieves and some actually do as asked, at the quoted price and on time... Yes believe it or not on time !!

Yes.

 

Our boat was built 18 years ago by Stoke on Trent Boatbuilding. They finished merely a few days late, for the agreed price, and produced a boat that was so good we still have it 18 years later. We wouldn't change it for anything and if we wanted to get a new boat we'd go straight back to SoTBB.

[Big COL]

Yes.

 

Our boat was built 18 years ago by Stoke on Trent Boatbuilding. They finished merely a few days late, for the agreed price, and produced a boat that was so good we still have it 18 years later. We wouldn't change it for anything and if we wanted to get a new boat we'd go straight back to SoTBB.

 

Following on from Alan's comments I would also stay with our boat builder which was ColeCraft.

Having had one of our boats being stretched, and them suppling us with a new sail away without the slightest hint of a problem is enough reason to recommend them.

If you have a good experience with your builder then you want to recommend them quality is the test of time after years of building boats they are still in business, that must say a lot for any boat builder.

[Colin Smith]

Has anyone on this forum got anything good to say about boat builders / fitters. If we were to believe the few on here, then there isn't a single satisfied customer owning a boat. Not all builders / fitters are rogues and thieves and some actually do as asked, at the quoted price and on time... Yes believe it or not on time !!

 

Its very easy to note all the bad with everything, the thing we don't hear about enough are the good results.

Then first impressions are telling me Victor Meldrew would be in his element here.

Lighten up girls and boys ... Chatting to boaters out on the cut, there are loads more satisfied with their build experience than not.

 

Gem Marine Services…financially pretty sound (part of a bigger, regulated group), quality build, on time, on budget, superb after-sales service. Wouldn’t hesitate to go back to them.

 

Colin

[Doorman]

Mike

 

Hope you do not mind the edits, it saved me typing very similar.

 

The only difference, we went with a specialist shell builder and a separate fitting out company.

 

The only fault is a printed circuit board in the inverter/charger, cannot blame builder for that, should be sorted soon part on the way from Holland.

 

Keith,

 

I imagine you've chosen well on both suppliers. As long as they've provided what you'd asked for at a quallity level proportionate

to cost, you can be happy with the end result.

 

In our case, we met the boatbuilder at Crick then followed that up with a visit to his boatyard on their open day. There, we could see boats at various stages of build and meet numerous happy customers, who took the trouble to sail their boats to the yard for the occasion.

 

Although our builder was rigid in his traditional ways and techniques, we both felt comfortable that his business was run efficiently and his employees were seasoned craftsmen who were well mannered and respectful. That extra time spent investigating our final choice of boatbuilder was well worth the effort.

 

At no time have we been given false promises regarding build times or schedules, nor has there been hidden charges, everything was transparent.

 

I can only sympathise with people who've been ripped off or short changed by unscrupulous boatbuilders, it surely is a crime to shatter

honest peoples dreams!

 

Mike

 

P.S. The boatbuilder is SM Hudson of Tamworth.

 

Yes, I accept that is probably true, although one might hope for better than 50%!

 

But if even only one or two percent of people who think they have done all their research as fully as they can get completely stuffed by a company folding, the fact that 98 or 99 percent didn't get the same problem doesn't really help them, does it?

 

I'm sorry to keep returning to the single example of 'Pav', but it is one that very adequately demonstrates the problem, and where many on here are familiar with the story.

 

He tried so hard to get it right, asking countless intelligent questions on here before he made his choice of builder.

 

The builder was a long established firm, apparently highly regarded, and with no suspicion that anything was about to go wrong.

 

If I had thrown everything into a dream, I could not afford to find myself in the situation he ended up in.

 

Whatever you say, it's a minefield, IMO - I can't see how you can prove that any builder is bullet-proof, in these difficult times.

 

You are not a builder or associated with a builder, are you ?

 

Hi Alan,

 

I've seen much quoted of 'Pav's' plight but know very little of the details. Is there an archived post relating to this? The guy sounds like a good man who's been extremely badly treated.

 

Mike

Edited November 14, 2009 by Doorman

[heyjude999]

We are all boarded now, bulkheads and windows in today and engine on site ready for fitting on Monday.

 

We have had a total assurance there will be no more delays, only if we change our minds about something. (duly accepted)

 

It was not their fault the wood was faulty, communication was...

 

They are just finishing a boat there which is quite unusual but the workmanship it jaw droppingly good.

 

I remain confident now we will get what we want 2 weeks in to February.

 

I am even paying them the next stage payment under the marine contract. ( I can hear the comments already)

[Albion]

We are all boarded now, bulkheads and windows in today and engine on site ready for fitting on Monday.

 

We have had a total assurance there will be no more delays, only if we change our minds about something. (duly accepted)

 

It was not their fault the wood was faulty, communication was...

 

They are just finishing a boat there which is quite unusual but the workmanship it jaw droppingly good.

 

I remain confident now we will get what we want 2 weeks in to February.

 

I am even paying them the next stage payment under the marine contract. ( I can hear the comments already)

 

 

Don't worry about the comments, go with your gut instinct. You're the one who has spoken to the builder, you're the one that has watched the boat grow, you're the one who has made decisions (including this one) and it is your choice how and when you spend your money. You are so far into the build process now that to even attempt to back out would have been folly anyway, IMO.

Roger