Jean (formerly Trent)

[CanalWalker]

 

This is Jean in 1964, it was formerly the Trent (reg No. 1642) built in April 1935 for Canal Transport Ltd by Yarwood & sons. As far as I know...

[DHutch]

Nice.

[Derek R.]

Nice shot, needless to say recently painted and looking very good. Can you tell us more about the boat from which the photo was taken or anything about the steerers?

 

Derek

[Paul H]

Nice shot, needless to say recently painted and looking very good. Can you tell us more about the boat from which the photo was taken or anything about the steerers?

 

Derek

The other boat is a converted Grand Union Yarwoods built motor boat. I don't think it is star class because apart from Pisces none were converted at the time (apart from possibly Iron Duke/Eridanus.)

 

Big Nortwiches? - possibly Laidley Worm/Sutton, Rufford or Rainbow/Lancing.

 

The lifebelt says Malaya which was/is a beautiful wooden cruiser built narrowbeam by Banhams of Cambridge and kept at Chester.

 

Paul H

 

I am sure Pete H will be along in a minute...

 

Paul H

[CanalWalker]

All I know is it was taken in 1964, and what I have found about Jean/Trent, I bought the slide on ebay cos its a river class L&L boat.

[pete harrison]

 

This is Jean in 1964, it was formerly the Trent (reg No. 1642) built in April 1935 for Canal Transport Ltd by Yarwood & sons. As far as I know...

 

Liverpool 1642 (12/04/1935) = TRENT for Canal Transport Ltd., 72 Pall Mall, Liverpool, a wide beam motor with a cabin registered for 3 persons. TRENT's master when registered was Thomas Rye. TRENT had its Liverpool health registration transfered on 10/02/1953 to James Monk & Son, 14 Harrison Road, Chorley, Lanc's with the boat being renamed JEAN.

 

TRENT was not built in 1935 as it had previously been a dumb boat named LYNX, health registered as Liverpool 1499 on 23/05/1930 for Canal Transport Ltd., 72 Pall Mall, Liverpool. Liverpool 1499 suggests that LYNX originally had two cabins as occupation was granted for both 3 persons and 2 persons, the same as most other Canal Transport Ltd. dumb boats of this period. A note on the register states that LYNX was converted to a motor in 1935, which clearly co-incides with the Liverpool 1642 health registration.

 

Although these type of boats are a little outside of my usual field of research I do have extensive records of boats e.t.c. built by W.J. Yarwood & Sons Ltd., Northwich. This company built several wide boats for Canal Transport Ltd., Liverpool but I can find no evidence that they either built or carried out the motor conversion of LYNX / TRENT (but please correct me if I am wrong !).

[Pluto]

All I know is it was taken in 1964, and what I have found about Jean/Trent, I bought the slide on ebay cos its a river class L&L boat.

It is not one of the iron/steel River class boats built at Northwich, but the ex John Hunt LYNX, built as a horse boat in 1927, reg no 1499. Hunts' short boat fleet became part of Canal Transport Ltd in 1930, and LYNX was converted to a motor in 1934 and renamed TRENT, reg no 1642. The only other wooden boats named after rivers were ALT (ex Lancs Canal Transport horse boat no 28), DON (ex Lancs Canal Transport horse boat no 31), DOUGLAS, built 1932 at Shipley, and SWALE (ex Lancs Canal Transport horse boat no 30).

 

After nationalisation, many of the wooden Canal Transport boats passed to coal carriers in Lancashire, such as Billy Wells, Albert Blundell and James Monk. TRENT was sold to James Monk, and there are several more photos in the book about Monk's fleet, Lancashire Canal Carriers. I am not sure of where JEAN ended up, but many wooden short boats were broken up at Mayor's Tarleton yard, where there was a 'dock' on the river just above the lock into which boats could be put on high tides for breaking up.

[CanalWalker]

and thats why I posted the photo! Thank you very much! 1935 was the registration date not built date as I said. Its always nice to see these colour photos.

[pete harrison]

The other boat is a converted Grand Union Yarwoods built motor boat. I don't think it is star class because apart from Pisces none were converted at the time (apart from possibly Iron Duke/Eridanus.)

 

Big Nortwiches? - possibly Laidley Worm/Sutton, Rufford or Rainbow/Lancing.

 

The lifebelt says Malaya which was/is a beautiful wooden cruiser built narrowbeam by Banhams of Cambridge and kept at Chester.

 

Paul H

 

I am sure Pete H will be along in a minute...

 

Paul H

 

edit - deleted as irrelevant now narrow boat identified as BEATTY

Edited November 1, 2009 by pete harrison

[pete harrison]

It is not one of the iron/steel River class boats built at Northwich, but the ex John Hunt LYNX, built as a horse boat in 1927, reg no 1499. Hunts' short boat fleet became part of Canal Transport Ltd in 1930, and LYNX was converted to a motor in 1934 and renamed TRENT, reg no 1642. The only other wooden boats named after rivers were ALT (ex Lancs Canal Transport horse boat no 28), DON (ex Lancs Canal Transport horse boat no 31), DOUGLAS, built 1932 at Shipley, and SWALE (ex Lancs Canal Transport horse boat no 30).

 

My transcript of the Liverpool health register lists 1499 as LYNX for Canal Transport Ltd. (not John Hunt) and is dated 23/05/1930, 1499 being consistent with several other 1930 registrations. I have no other previous owner listed and I have few references to John Hunt (Liverpool 1240 / 1270 / 1278 - all exLeeds & Liverpool Canal Co. boats re-registered in 1925). Was LYNX previously health registered elsewhere for John Hunt in 1927 or was it not used as a dwelling ?

[grunders]

Nice shot, needless to say recently painted and looking very good. Can you tell us more about the boat from which the photo was taken or anything about the steerers?

 

Derek

 

The narrow boat is definitely ex-Samuel Barlows motor Beatty which my family have owned since 1968. She was owned by Jack Craddock at the time of the photo, though he doesn't appear to be steering. There are more photographs on our new website: http://www.nbbeatty.co.uk on the '1960 - 1968' page.

 

The lifebelt has been 'borrowed' from Malaya, which he owned prior to Beatty.

 

Edited to say: The exhaust is for an Armstrong Siddeley which was fitted in 1955 to replace the original Petter - if you look carefully, there is a patch on the port side of the pigeon box where the old exhaust was fitted.

Edited November 1, 2009 by grunders

[pete harrison]

The narrow boat is definitely ex-Samuel Barlows motor Beatty which my family have owned since 1968. She was owned by Jack Craddock at the time of the photo, though he doesn't appear to be steering. There are more photographs on our new website: http://www.nbbeatty.co.uk on the '1960 - 1968' page.

 

The lifebelt has been 'borrowed' from Malaya, which he owned prior to Beatty.

 

Yes, BEATTY had crossed my mind.

[Derek R.]

Yes, BEATTY had crossed my mind.

 

What a bunch of Stars we have here!

[Pluto]

My transcript of the Liverpool health register lists 1499 as LYNX for Canal Transport Ltd. (not John Hunt) and is dated 23/05/1930, 1499 being consistent with several other 1930 registrations. I have no other previous owner listed and I have few references to John Hunt (Liverpool 1240 / 1270 / 1278 - all exLeeds & Liverpool Canal Co. boats re-registered in 1925). Was LYNX previously health registered elsewhere for John Hunt in 1927 or was it not used as a dwelling ?

John Hunt and Sons were based in Leeds, and their fleet post 1921 were registered in Leeds, with only BEAR (could have been an Appleby's boat), BISON, CHEETAH (could have been an Appleby's boat), FOX reg Liverpool 1254, LEOPARD (could have been an Appleby's boat), and LYNX not having Leeds registrations. My list has been built up over the years and is not necessarily accurate as sources often seem to confuse ownership, and the number of boat do not always match the number of boat names. LYNX was built at Tarleton in 1927, so may have had a Liverpool registration right from the start. Almost all the John Hunt fleet had Liverpool registrations between 1483 and 1500 even though many were built just before the 1st WW. It suggests that they were all re-registered at the same time, perhaps just before/after they were taken over by Canal Transport Ltd in 1930.

[pete harrison]

John Hunt and Sons were based in Leeds, and their fleet post 1921 were registered in Leeds, with only BEAR (could have been an Appleby's boat), BISON, CHEETAH (could have been an Appleby's boat), FOX reg Liverpool 1254, LEOPARD (could have been an Appleby's boat), and LYNX not having Leeds registrations. My list has been built up over the years and is not necessarily accurate as sources often seem to confuse ownership, and the number of boat do not always match the number of boat names. LYNX was built at Tarleton in 1927, so may have had a Liverpool registration right from the start. Almost all the John Hunt fleet had Liverpool registrations between 1483 and 1500 even though many were built just before the 1st WW. It suggests that they were all re-registered at the same time, perhaps just before/after they were taken over by Canal Transport Ltd in 1930.

 

My transcript of the Liverpool health register is complete from number 1293 (02/06/1922) and shows all of the boats numbered 1483 to 1531 inclusive as been first registrations for Canal Transport Ltd., with subsequent owners registered under the same number or the town and number of transfer noted.

 

Prior to Liverpool 1293 my records get more sketchy the further back in time I go so I can accept that many of John Hunt & Sons fleet may be amongst these. If John Hunt & Sons were based at Leeds would it not be likeley that his earlier fleet was also health registered at Leeds, a register I do not have !

 

Out of interest I have:-

 

BEAR - Liverpool 1268 (22/06/1915) for Applebys Transit Co. Ltd.

BISON - no early record but becoming Liverpool 1497 (23/05/1930) for Canal Transport Ltd.

CHEETAH - Liverpool 1284 (19/05/1921) for Applebys Transit Co. Ltd. - previously Liverpool 1284 (c1917) owner not named.

FOX - I have no record for Liverpool 1254 (mid 1914) and no likely FOX so I can not confirm this at present.

LEOPARD - Liverpool 1287 (19/05/1921) for Applebys Transit Co. Ltd. - previously Liverpool 1287 (c1919) owner not named.

LYNX - no 1927 record but becoming Liverpool 1499 (23/05/1930) & 1642 (12/04/1935) for Canal Transport Ltd.

[CanalWalker]

well done everybody...now where was the photograph taken?

[Derek R.]

well done everybody...now where was the photograph taken?

 

Shot in the dark - Is that Imperial Mill in the background?

[Pluto]

My transcript of the Liverpool health register is complete from number 1293 (02/06/1922) and shows all of the boats numbered 1483 to 1531 inclusive as been first registrations for Canal Transport Ltd., with subsequent owners registered under the same number or the town and number of transfer noted.

 

Prior to Liverpool 1293 my records get more sketchy the further back in time I go so I can accept that many of John Hunt & Sons fleet may be amongst these. If John Hunt & Sons were based at Leeds would it not be likeley that his earlier fleet was also health registered at Leeds, a register I do not have !

The Leeds registers do have most of Hunts L&LC fleet, the earliest being ELLEN, no 25 in 1878, and the last being PANTHER, no 687, which was built in 1928. The Canal Transport boats re-registered in Liverpool in 1930 comprised the Lancashire Canal Transport fleet, originally registered in Blackburn, the B C Walls fleet, mainly registered in Liverpool with a couple in Leeds, and the John Hunt & Sons fleet, mostly registered in Leeds. However, LYNX was not one of them, and I have no registration number from when owned by Hunts.

 

There were some narrow boats registered for the L&LC in the Wigan registers and owned by Wigan Coal & Iron Company: the VICTORIA and MARY, reg nos 74 and 75, registered for use between Liverpool and Wigan and broken up in 1909, and No.1 and No.2, reg nos 90 and 91, registered for use over the whole of the L&LC, the former passing to Jno Twigg in 1891, the latter broken up in 1909. The would have been others, one East Lancs family of boaters coming to the area off salt boats working to the chemical works at Church from Middlewich. Narrow boats were also used quite extensively on the Rochdale, and I think I noticed some in the A&CN gauge books in the Waterways Archive, but have never looked in detail.

 

Edited to say the picture was probably taken in Leigh.

Edited November 2, 2009 by Pluto

[CanalWalker]

I would guess its the Leigh Branch or similar, one of the other slides is of Worsely (th ewater gives it away there).

[pete harrison]

The Leeds registers do have most of Hunts L&LC fleet, the earliest being ELLEN, no 25 in 1878, and the last being PANTHER, no 687, which was built in 1928. The Canal Transport boats re-registered in Liverpool in 1930 comprised the Lancashire Canal Transport fleet, originally registered in Blackburn, the B C Walls fleet, mainly registered in Liverpool with a couple in Leeds, and the John Hunt & Sons fleet, mostly registered in Leeds. However, LYNX was not one of them, and I have no registration number from when owned by Hunts.

 

There were some narrow boats registered for the L&LC in the Wigan registers and owned by Wigan Coal & Iron Company: the VICTORIA and MARY, reg nos 74 and 75, registered for use between Liverpool and Wigan and broken up in 1909, and No.1 and No.2, reg nos 90 and 91, registered for use over the whole of the L&LC, the former passing to Jno Twigg in 1891, the latter broken up in 1909. The would have been others, one East Lancs family of boaters coming to the area off salt boats working to the chemical works at Church from Middlewich. Narrow boats were also used quite extensively on the Rochdale, and I think I noticed some in the A&CN gauge books in the Waterways Archive, but have never looked in detail.

 

Edited to say the picture was probably taken in Leigh.

 

I do have a transcript of the Wigan health register but I have VICTORIA, MARY, No.1 and No. 2 (74, 75, 90 and 91) all as wide boats, but as you say all for the Wigan Coal & Iron Co. Ltd., Kirklees Hall, Wigan. According to my transcript the only narrow boats on the Wigan health register are:-

 

Wigan 31 (24/02/1879) - AMANDA for George Hodgkinson, 250 Wallgate, Wigan - 17/05/1891 transfer to Simpson Davies & Son, Bank Chambers, Runcorn.

Wigan 289 (19/11/1914) - ENGLAND for Wigan Coal & Iron Co. Ltd., Kirklees Hall, Wigan - 08/01/1931 broken up.

Wigan 290 (19/11/1914) - IRELAND for Wigan Coal & Iron Co. Ltd., Kirklees Hall, Wigan - 08/01/1931 broken up.

Wigan 281 (19/11/1914) - SCOTLAND for Wigan Coal & Iron Co. Ltd., Kirklees Hall, Wigan - 08/01/1931 broken up.

Wigan 359 (10/08/1950) - JOYCE (motor) for Gordon Hall Waddington, Bolton - 1953 re-registered at Tamworth.

 

I have several other north western health registers (Leigh, Runcorn, Manchester e.t.c.) and I would be most interested in acquiring copies of the Preston and Leeds registers if anybody has them (and I do know that Leeds is not in the north west !). I must also add once again that wide boats are outside of my usual field of research and I am more than happy to be corrected.

[Pluto]

I do have a transcript of the Wigan health register but I have VICTORIA, MARY, No.1 and No. 2 (74, 75, 90 and 91) all as wide boats, but as you say all for the Wigan Coal & Iron Co. Ltd., Kirklees Hall, Wigan. According to my transcript the only narrow boats on the Wigan health register are:-

 

Wigan 31 (24/02/1879) - AMANDA for George Hodgkinson, 250 Wallgate, Wigan - 17/05/1891 transfer to Simpson Davies & Son, Bank Chambers, Runcorn.

Wigan 289 (19/11/1914) - ENGLAND for Wigan Coal & Iron Co. Ltd., Kirklees Hall, Wigan - 08/01/1931 broken up.

Wigan 290 (19/11/1914) - IRELAND for Wigan Coal & Iron Co. Ltd., Kirklees Hall, Wigan - 08/01/1931 broken up.

Wigan 281 (19/11/1914) - SCOTLAND for Wigan Coal & Iron Co. Ltd., Kirklees Hall, Wigan - 08/01/1931 broken up.

Wigan 359 (10/08/1950) - JOYCE (motor) for Gordon Hall Waddington, Bolton - 1953 re-registered at Tamworth.

 

I have several other north western health registers (Leigh, Runcorn, Manchester e.t.c.) and I would be most interested in acquiring copies of the Preston and Leeds registers if anybody has them (and I do know that Leeds is not in the north west !). I must also add once again that wide boats are outside of my usual field of research and I am more than happy to be corrected.

I seem to remember that I thought it unusual for WC&ICo to have narrow boats at the time, but it is probably twenty years since I looked at the registers, so memory could be playing tricks. ENGLAND, IRELAND and SCOTLAND were not really narrow boats, but steam tugs similar to those used on the Bridgewater Canal. I have been told that there was also a WALES, and that three tugs operated between Wigan and Liverpool and the other above Wigan locks. I also have ADELA, reg no 29 and owned by George Hodgkinson as a narrow boat, with both his boats being transfered to Simpson Davies of Runcorn around 1909. Coal boats from Runcorn certainly worked onto the L&LC as I have found them mentioned in Census returns, and there is a photo of a Simpson Davies wide boat in my recent book, Brightwork. As always, the detail never makes things clearer! I have JOYCE down as the ex-Wanders HARRY.

[pete harrison]

I seem to remember that I thought it unusual for WC&ICo to have narrow boats at the time, but it is probably twenty years since I looked at the registers, so memory could be playing tricks. ENGLAND, IRELAND and SCOTLAND were not really narrow boats, but steam tugs similar to those used on the Bridgewater Canal. I have been told that there was also a WALES, and that three tugs operated between Wigan and Liverpool and the other above Wigan locks. I also have ADELA, reg no 29 and owned by George Hodgkinson as a narrow boat, with both his boats being transfered to Simpson Davies of Runcorn around 1909. Coal boats from Runcorn certainly worked onto the L&LC as I have found them mentioned in Census returns, and there is a photo of a Simpson Davies wide boat in my recent book, Brightwork. As always, the detail never makes things clearer! I have JOYCE down as the ex-Wanders HARRY.

 

My transcript of the Wigan health register lists ADELA as a wide boat, but as you say for George Hodgkinson and passing to Simpson Davies & Son (transfer date 14/05/1891). I have ADELA as "not in use 18/05/1909" but no such note alongside AMANDA (Wigan 31).

 

I have no record of a relevant boat named WALES, and my transcript makes no mention of ENGLAND, IRELAND or SCOTLAND being steam powered. The route given for ENGLAND is Skevington & Liverpool but I have no route for the other two.

 

You are correct in having "JOYCE as the ex-Wanders HARRY". This motor boat was not sold to G.H. Waddington directly by A. Wander as suggested in the registers and was renamed again when it went onto the Tamworth health register.

[Pluto]

My transcript of the Wigan health register lists ADELA as a wide boat, but as you say for George Hodgkinson and passing to Simpson Davies & Son (transfer date 14/05/1891). I have ADELA as "not in use 18/05/1909" but no such note alongside AMANDA (Wigan 31).

 

I have no record of a relevant boat named WALES, and my transcript makes no mention of ENGLAND, IRELAND or SCOTLAND being steam powered. The route given for ENGLAND is Skevington & Liverpool but I have no route for the other two.

 

You are correct in having "JOYCE as the ex-Wanders HARRY". This motor boat was not sold to G.H. Waddington directly by A. Wander as suggested in the registers and was renamed again when it went onto the Tamworth health register.

WALES could have been the one used above Wigan locks where it would have been less likely to be used for living aboard and so may not have been registered. The WC&ICos main yard was at Haigh just beyond the first bridge above the locks. The clock tower still survives, but not the large saw mill, which also served their collieries, and three side slips for repairing boats. They must have had another slip below the locks for their long boats. Their fleet was possibly the largest private one on the canal at around 70 boats, though Ince Hall Coal & Cannel Co also had a large fleet as well.

[Monk1]

On 02/11/2009 at 06:47, Derek R. said:

 

Shot in the dark - Is that Imperial Mill in the background?

Picture of my family's boat Jean (named after my cousin Jean) was taken passing Barton Power Station, with skipper John Maily