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The only thing that I have heard about Lombardini is that they are noisier than some.

 

I only have experience of one of your selection and that is the Beta 75 (in a wide beam) based on the Kubota industrial engine and it was superb. It was quiet, started instantly, did everything required and kept its oil remarkably clean between scheduled changes. I've got no hesitation in having the Beta 90 (again, Kubota based) for my new barge. I'm not sure whether Beta's smaller range is Kubota based or not, perhaps someone else can advise.

Roger

Well... disagree with the statement 'noisier' as ours is so QUIET that when we passed some contractors on the cut they said.. wow is that engine electric as didnt hear you coming!!! Even had the rcr engineers say the same.. quiet engine that!! Think this debate will go on and on lol.

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Thanks for all the input so far,

 

Just how do these engines compare to -

 

Beta Marine,

Vetus.

Barris Shrire

 

and any other makes...

 

Apols for any spelling mistakes.

 

All the modern non-timing belt engines seem to be much of a muchness but whilst trying to follow something up for a reader Vetus categorically told me over the phone that their ENGINE (not gearbox but they admitted that as well) must not be run out of gear for more than (I think) 20 minutes otherwise the bores will glaze and the warranty would be invalidated. If you fancy a Mitsubishi based engine talk to Thornycroft.

 

Chat to your local dealers about stock levels, the cost of spares and the availability of technical support from the mariniser. Also talk to other boaters about customer service in respect of the other two.

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All the modern non-timing belt engines seem to be much of a muchness but whilst trying to follow something up for a reader Vetus categorically told me over the phone that their ENGINE (not gearbox but they admitted that as well) must not be run out of gear for more than (I think) 20 minutes otherwise the bores will glaze and the warranty would be invalidated. If you fancy a Mitsubishi based engine talk to Thornycroft.

 

Chat to your local dealers about stock levels, the cost of spares and the availability of technical support from the mariniser. Also talk to other boaters about customer service in respect of the other two.

I have heard that the Vetus shouln't IDLE for more than a few minutes. They told me via email that running at idle out of gear is not ideal, but if it must be used in this manner (for battery charging), that it is best to lift the revs a little, and ensure that the batteries are quite flat (!) I have heard that the Technocrap box doesn't like running in neutral for prolonged periods, but not from Vetus. I am avoiding this practise with my Vetus by using the genny for staionary charging where possible.

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Well... disagree with the statement 'noisier' as ours is so QUIET that when we passed some contractors on the cut they said.. wow is that engine electric as didnt hear you coming!!! Even had the rcr engineers say the same.. quiet engine that!! Think this debate will go on and on lol.

I agree - this is certainly not a noisy engine in my experience

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Are they floatation tyres :lol:

 

You know, that was the best picture of one of Lamborghini's agricultural products that I could find. I was looking for a picture of one of their massive combine harvesters which have a railed platform around the back like the poop deck of a ship. I've stood on one of those, and it wasn't half a long way down...

 

Richard

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Just how practical a proposition would it be to change from a Lombardini to say a vetus......

 

Assuming a boat ticks all other boxes but I was put off buy the prospect of the engine self destructing if the cam belt snaps - would it be worth taking the risk and if it did just trashing it and swapping for one of a different make

 

- has anybody ever done this or does the cost of any adaptations make it wholly unacceptable....

 

Thanks again for all the replies....

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Just how practical a proposition would it be to change from a Lombardini to say a vetus......

 

Assuming a boat ticks all other boxes but I was put off buy the prospect of the engine self destructing if the cam belt snaps - would it be worth taking the risk and if it did just trashing it and swapping for one of a different make

 

- has anybody ever done this or does the cost of any adaptations make it wholly unacceptable....

 

Thanks again for all the replies....

I would imagine it would be possible to change for a similar sized engine, although heights and things would need to be considered. As with anything boating related, it all dependes how much money you are prepared to throw at it. I think a Vetus 415 fully marinised is around 5 thousand quid. As stated earlier, if using a Vetus I would consider a gearbox other than the Technodrive.

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Subject to sufficient space, you can usually swap any narrow boat engine for a suitable one from another manufacturer.

 

Because the same gearboxes tend to be used for many manufacturers engines, sometimes you could retain the gearbox, but other times it would not be practical.

 

I've never fully researched new engines, but you seldom get much change from about £5K, I suspect, and it is a year or two since our marina engineer told me that fully fitted a Beta would be closer to £8K, (and I don't think he was taking the p*ss, either, unfortunately :lol: ).

 

You would have to want a second-hand boat very, very badly I think, to make an engine swap a cost-effective proposition.

 

I don't think you'll find many Lombardinis in narrow boats. I don't recall any of the boats we viewed being so equipped.

 

Most boats with engines based on modern industrial or agricultural units tend to have one of.....

 

Beta (Kubota), HMI Isuzu (Isuzu), Barrus Shire (Yanmar), Vetus (Mitsubishi), Nannidiesel (Kubota),

 

or of course there are Listers.

 

Personally for one of the Kubota, Isuzu, Yanmar, Mitsubishi options I'd go for a mariniser that fits a PRM (Newage) box as standard, rather than any of the other gearboxes, that seem to be less well regarded. Most do, these days, I think, but Vetus probably still not, I think (may be wrong on that ?).

 

I'd say that Beta and Isuzu between them have the lion's share of the hire boat market, which I think also says something about their reliabilty and ease of maintenance.

 

A slightly cheaper option is things like the Barrus Shanks, based on a Chinese engine, but there are so few around that user reviews are hard to get. You'll be unlikely to find them yet in second-hand boats, I'd have thought.

 

 

But then I have a 40 year old BMC "van" engine, so what do I know!

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Subject to sufficient space, you can usually swap any narrow boat engine for a suitable one from another manufacturer.

 

Because the same gearboxes tend to be used for many manufacturers engines, sometimes you could retain the gearbox, but other times it would not be practical.

 

I've never fully researched new engines, but you seldom get much change from about £5K, I suspect, and it is a year or two since our marina engineer told me that fully fitted a Beta would be closer to £8K, (and I don't think he was taking the p*ss, either, unfortunately :lol: ).

 

You would have to want a second-hand boat very, very badly I think, to make an engine swap a cost-effective proposition.

 

I don't think you'll find many Lombardinis in narrow boats. I don't recall any of the boats we viewed being so equipped.

 

Most boats with engines based on modern industrial or agricultural units tend to have one of.....

 

Beta (Kubota), HMI Isuzu (Isuzu), Barrus Shire (Yanmar), Vetus (Mitsubishi), Nannidiesel (Kubota),

 

or of course there are Listers.

 

Personally for one of the Kubota, Isuzu, Yanmar, Mitsubishi options I'd go for a mariniser that fits a PRM (Newage) box as standard, rather than any of the other gearboxes, that seem to be less well regarded. Most do, these days, I think, but Vetus probably still not, I think (may be wrong on that ?).

 

I'd say that Beta and Isuzu between them have the lion's share of the hire boat market, which I think also says something about their reliabilty and ease of maintenance.

 

A slightly cheaper option is things like the Barrus Shanks, based on a Chinese engine, but there are so few around that user reviews are hard to get. You'll be unlikely to find them yet in second-hand boats, I'd have thought.

 

 

But then I have a 40 year old BMC "van" engine, so what do I know!

 

Is the 150 Newage Hydraulic box OK. Our yard fit them on Beta 38s in their hire/share boats and I am thinking of this combination for mine.

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Just how practical a proposition would it be to change from a Lombardini to say a vetus......

 

Assuming a boat ticks all other boxes but I was put off buy the prospect of the engine self destructing if the cam belt snaps - would it be worth taking the risk and if it did just trashing it and swapping for one of a different make

 

- has anybody ever done this or does the cost of any adaptations make it wholly unacceptable....

 

Thanks again for all the replies....

 

Having been very satisfied with my boat of 4 years which is fitted with a Lombardini engine I am pleased I didn't let the engine type put me off purchasing. It has performed well maybe as a result of being serviced as per manufacturers instructions which will include cam- belt replacement at 2500 hrs. The service engineer did say these engines are very reliable. Has anbody actually heard of a cam- belt snapping on these engines within its recommended life- span ?

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Having been very satisfied with my boat of 4 years which is fitted with a Lombardini engine I am pleased I didn't let the engine type put me off purchasing. It has performed well maybe as a result of being serviced as per manufacturers instructions which will include cam- belt replacement at 2500 hrs. The service engineer did say these engines are very reliable. Has anbody actually heard of a cam- belt snapping on these engines within its recommended life- span ?

 

 

Thanks for this

 

-If I did buy a boat with one of these I suppose one of the first things I would do would be have the belt changed irrespective of when the previous owner claimed it had been. My brother in law works in the motor trade and it's the fist thing he recommends any body does if they are buying a car with an engine so equipped does - you then 'know' it's been done.

 

If you don't mind me asking how much does a cam-belt change and service on one of these engines cost??

Edited by MJG
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I know my Montego had a safe engine because the belt snapped
Oddly, we've had the same!

- In the engines defence it was 20k over due for a change because the garage had missed the replacement interval as had my parents. But that was very good and once towed to our destination 20mins up the road the aa bloke changed the belt in about an hour.

 

Shame the belt on the 306 is a lot less accessible!

 

I can see for the application of a boat (where robustness is king over performance) that a chain is preferable. However given that bascialy all cars have had belts for the last two decades it is a very well proven technology in itself and with a boat where hours are low the change interval could be cut to say 4years.

 

 

 

Daniel

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Oddly, we've had the same!

- In the engines defence it was 20k over due for a change because the garage had missed the replacement interval as had my parents. But that was very good and once towed to our destination 20mins up the road the aa bloke changed the belt in about an hour.

 

Shame the belt on the 306 is a lot less accessible!

 

I can see for the application of a boat (where robustness is king over performance) that a chain is preferable. However given that bascialy all cars have had belts for the last two decades it is a very well proven technology in itself and with a boat where hours are low the change interval could be cut to say 4years.

 

 

 

Daniel

 

There is an increasing trend on cars to return to chain drives because of the less reliable drive/premature snapping problems of belts (sometimes caused by idler pulley surfaces breaking up or idler bearing failure). Also, by removing another service item (and a reasonably time consuming one at that) it reduces the total cost of ownership which is a significant factor particulalry for fleet users.

In the books that garages use for belt replacement procedures/torque settings and belt tensions it usually says whether the engine is a safe one should the belt break.

Roger

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I bought an elederly but low milage Shogun last year. My son changed the timing belt for me as a precautionary measure, which was just as well because there was a large crack in it. I am not keen on timing belts on cars or boats, but after my experience I would always change it if I bought a vehicle/boat with a used engine. A few hundred quid can save a few grand.

As an aside I have heard that marine engines can suffer rust on the timing belt sprockets, on the areas that not covered by the belt during periods of engine lay up, winter for example. Seemingly this can affect the belt. I would think it would be prudent to turn the engine over regularly under these circumstances.

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  • 2 years later...

My experience with a Lombardini 1204 fitted to our previous Canal Boat:

The engine is well made, light and responsive, ideal for small plant, diggers etc and generator sets.

NOT ideal for canal boats.

1:- Cam belt to be changed every 2500 hrs. As it's at the front of the engine (no room at all on our installation) it was a case of either removing the engine, or as I did, cutting an access hole in the bulkhead and making up a bolted watertight strong sealed panel.

2:- At about 4000 hrs the engine began to run roughly and have black smoke from the exhaust, indicating that the injectors needed serviceing. So sent away for serviceing.

To refit the injectors required EXPENSIVE setting and test equipment, to get the injector timing correct, and balancing to get all injectors to deliver a balanced fuel flow at 1500rpm.

I have quite a lot of experience with Truck/Car and Aircraft engines which helped.

I have the very comprehensive workshop manual from Lombardini which covers various models. I also purchased some, and made up some, of the necessary equipment.

Quite a procedure to set the engine up correctly.

If anyone would like to borrow the equipment or chat about how to go about it please contact me.

 

Hello there, Im afraid I am not a boat owner but I am after buying a hayter LT312 lanwmower which has a lambardini LDW1204 engine, it has 4000 hours done when I tried to start it it was very difficult to start and pumped out large amount of black smoke when I eventually got it started it runs ok but lots of black smoke even at tick over, and when you knock the revs off the black smoke really gets heavy, I was woundering if you could explain to me more about the setting up of the injectors in detail, or any knowledge would be much appreciated, I have a resonalbe knowledge of diesel engines but not these particular ones if you would have any literature available on this subject I would appreciate any help

Thanks, Regards

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I had a Lombardini LDW501 twin in my Mastervolt genset. Designed by computer, built by robots, driven by Italians etc. ;)

 

Yes it had beltdriven timing, but during the several thousand hours it ran, was totally reliable with absolutely no oil leaks, despite running straight up to 3000 rpm from cold.

 

It was all the crap that Mastervolt attached to it that caused the problems.

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Hello there, Im afraid I am not a boat owner but I am after buying a hayter LT312 lanwmower which has a lambardini LDW1204 engine, it has 4000 hours done when I tried to start it it was very difficult to start and pumped out large amount of black smoke when I eventually got it started it runs ok but lots of black smoke even at tick over, and when you knock the revs off the black smoke really gets heavy, I was woundering if you could explain to me more about the setting up of the injectors in detail, or any knowledge would be much appreciated, I have a resonalbe knowledge of diesel engines but not these particular ones if you would have any literature available on this subject I would appreciate any help

Thanks, Regards

 

The short answer is NO. When I tried to get information out of Lombardini UK for a course TVU were running for BT, unlike all the other manufacturers, all they would say was "tell them to take it to one of our service agents".

 

A very experienced boat engineer told me is vies on these engines in no uncertain terms and it involved a skip.

 

They have a novel injection system involving the camshaft and unit injectors so they will more complicated than other industrial engines.

 

I note that Lombardini now seem to have some manuals on-line but I do not have their URL to hand.

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linky thing

The short answer is NO. When I tried to get information out of Lombardini UK for a course TVU were running for BT, unlike all the other manufacturers, all they would say was "tell them to take it to one of our service agents".

 

A very experienced boat engineer told me is vies on these engines in no uncertain terms and it involved a skip.

 

They have a novel injection system involving the camshaft and unit injectors so they will more complicated than other industrial engines.

 

I note that Lombardini now seem to have some manuals on-line but I do not have their URL to hand.

 

We had a Lombardini engine from new, it failed we threw cash at it but it was never the same again. :banghead: Eventually we took up the skip option and replaced it with a new isuzi 42 and never looked back. Having experienced life with a Lombardini I would agree with your engineer friend they belong in a skip, wouldn't touch another one with a barge pole.

 

See link below for Lomdardini manual

 

http://service.lombardinigroup.it/english/man_index_gb.htmMy link

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:smiley_offtopic:When changing the timing belt on second hand cars I ALWAYS changed the water pump at the same time as it runs off the timing belt and when it goes awol, the timing belt goes slack and ......... bump. The upside of a car / van enging in a canal boat is the availability of spares, quickly and cheaply IMO i.e. motor factors are everywhere.

 

:cheers:

 

Edit: Does anyone know whos idea it was to connect all the timing gear with an elastic band??!!

Edited by Canal Rat
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:smiley_offtopic:When changing the timing belt on second hand cars I ALWAYS changed the water pump at the same time as it runs off the timing belt and when it goes awol, the timing belt goes slack and ......... bump. The upside of a car / van enging in a canal boat is the availability of spares, quickly and cheaply IMO i.e. motor factors are everywhere.

 

:cheers:

 

Edit: Does anyone know whos idea it was to connect all the timing gear with an elastic band??!!

Mr Fenner,i think.

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  • 1 year later...

My boat (bought second hand a year ago, little history except docs and receipts left aboard) has a Lombardini LDW 1404 engine. Clock now shows just over 14,000 hours. Apart from problems with the fuel supply (not specific to the engine) this engine has run consistently for the year I've had it. I had the cam belt replaced last winter, for which total cost was about £250 - for the kit, including tensioner, plus about an hour of engineer time. The replacement was slightly but not excessively fiddly - engineer was in and out in an hour, seemed perfectly simple.

 

Having no rev counter I have no idea whether the engine ever delivers its nominal 3,600 rpm. I just run it through 4 sweet spots (avoiding resonances with other bits of the boat) - idle, first sweet drive spot, 'upped' drive, and 'flat out'! I find the engine somewhat noisy and rattly, but got used to it. Conversations at the stern require slightly raised voices! From the bank, it seems no noisier than other narrowboats to me and others. On the whole I feel it's reliable. Anyhow, it took me safely from Bristol-Portishead-Sharpness this summer, although I had to run her for about 3 hours at 90%+ power to keep up with the piloted boat in my 2-boat convoy. On that voyage, I ran some hot water off in the galley at about the halfway mark; by the time we reached Sharpness the engine was hot but not steaming, and there was no significant coolant loss.

 

Lombardini on a narrowboat - a bit of a rarity perhaps, but so far I have no complaints :)

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My boat (bought second hand a year ago, little history except docs and receipts left aboard) has a Lombardini LDW 1404 engine. Clock now shows just over 14,000 hours. Apart from problems with the fuel supply (not specific to the engine) this engine has run consistently for the year I've had it. I had the cam belt replaced last winter, for which total cost was about £250 - for the kit, including tensioner, plus about an hour of engineer time. The replacement was slightly but not excessively fiddly - engineer was in and out in an hour, seemed perfectly simple.

 

Having no rev counter I have no idea whether the engine ever delivers its nominal 3,600 rpm. I just run it through 4 sweet spots (avoiding resonances with other bits of the boat) - idle, first sweet drive spot, 'upped' drive, and 'flat out'! I find the engine somewhat noisy and rattly, but got used to it. Conversations at the stern require slightly raised voices! From the bank, it seems no noisier than other narrowboats to me and others. On the whole I feel it's reliable. Anyhow, it took me safely from Bristol-Portishead-Sharpness this summer, although I had to run her for about 3 hours at 90%+ power to keep up with the piloted boat in my 2-boat convoy. On that voyage, I ran some hot water off in the galley at about the halfway mark; by the time we reached Sharpness the engine was hot but not steaming, and there was no significant coolant loss.

 

Lombardini on a narrowboat - a bit of a rarity perhaps, but so far I have no complaints smile.png

 

Your engine must be very easy accessible if the engeneer was in and out within 1 hour, I need about 5 hours to change the timing belt on my VW Caddy 2.0 Sdi, the dealers can do it maybe a bit quicker but surely not much quicker as you have to remove a whole bunch of stuff before you can access and change the belt, tensioner, idler wheel and waterpump.

 

Your engine with 14.000 hours on the clock shows that they're not all that bad, and worth saving from the skip.

 

Peter.

Edited by bargemast
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Your engine must be very easy accessible if the engeneer was in and out within 1 hour, I need about 5 hours to change the timing belt on my VW Caddy 2.0 Sdi, the dealers can do it maybe a bit quicker but surely not much quicker as you have to remove a whole bunch of stuff before you can access and change the belt, tensioner, idler wheel and waterpump.

 

Your engine with 14.000 hours on the clock shows that they're not all that bad, and worth saving from the skip.

 

Peter.

 

There's loads of room round my engine: it's a small engine for a narrowboat! People generally remark that it looks 'neat' down there, but really it's cos it's small. I joke with folk that it's a lawnmower/tractor/snowmobile engine, and if truth be told I'd rather have a more mainstream engine in my boat - but as long as it's doing the job of pushing me happily round the UK canal system and managing the occasional river stretch without struggling too much, I intend to maintain it and keep it going for a while yet!

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