Spitfire

[Timleech]

But if that house was listed then you would have to get permission to remove the fireplace.

 

Only if the fireplace was specified in the listing.

Our house is listed, luckily only the exterior is specified and there are a couple of glaring inaccuracies in that listing, whoever drew it up didn't take much trouble to get it right. In theory that could have caused us trouble, I suppose we could have been required to replace something which was never there!

 

Tim

[carlt]

Only if the fireplace was specified in the listing.

I expanded in my next post:

 

I owned a grade 2 listed cottage and was not allowed to change any external features and, if it was part of the listing, any original internal features, including fireplaces, doors, picture rails, etc.

 

Regarding the exterior I once pulled out of the purchase of a listed property because of the listing.

 

It was a one up, one down wattle and daub cottage which was originally thatched.

 

I submitted plans that involved attaching a mirror image, creating a two bedroomed cottage and converting an outhouse into kitchen and bathroom using the original methods and materials and reinstating the thatch .

 

All of this was passed but I was told that, because the corrugated iron roof was part of the listing, it had to stay.

 

There is now a modern 4 or 5 bedroom house on the site.

[Hairy-Neil]

All of this was passed but I was told that, because the corrugated iron roof was part of the listing, it had to stay.

 

Hey, what's wrong with corrugated iron?

[carlt]

Hey, what's wrong with corrugated iron?

Nothing at all, when it is part of the original structure.

[Hairy-Neil]

Nothing at all, when it is part of the original structure.

 

So you would graft the arm back on the Venus De Milo?

[carlt]

So you would graft the arm back on the Venus De Milo?

Of course!

 

Seriously, though, I don't think corrugated iron is an ideal material for a house roof and I wanted a thatch.

 

If anyone else wants a tin roof, to live under, then I would support their choice wholeheartedly.

[Chertsey]

I thought it was me who suggested wooden gunwhales and cabin to you in the first place,

 

come and see my own boat, Aquila, if you want to see what wooden decks, cants, gunwhales and cabin are like

Yes, you are right and I hope I have not done you a disservice. I remembered about the cabin so thought it unlikely you would have recommended steel for the gunnels.

[Timleech]

Hey, what's wrong with corrugated iron?

 

 

Nothing at all, when it is part of the original structure.

 

My dry-dock roof is and always was corrugated iron (and incidentally is listed).

A nice lady from BW who came round for a pre-lease renewal inspection asked me what I'd done with all the slates

(A quick glance at the structure shows it's not designed for slates).

It originally had wooden guttering. Years ago when I was employed there we replaced one side with cast iron and consolidated the best of the wood to the other (public) side. Then when that got really bad it was replaced with plastic which actually looks much nearer to the original wood until you get up close.

BW have made it a condition now that if the plastic needs replacing it must be done with cast iron (which looks nothing like the original). I'd rather make up some wood, personally.

 

 

Tim

Edited September 9, 2009 by Timleech

[David Schweizer]

I know that this keeps wandering but histioric anecdotal evidence of past Planning decisions whilst useful, is not definitive. The Planning Regulations change almost every year, and District/County Structure plans are revised on a rolling programme, so something that was permmitted ten years ago may now be refused, and similarily something that was required ten years ago, may no longer be required.

 

The advice if you wish to undertake works to a listed building, or any building (including any new build!) within a Conservation Area, or within a National Park, is to contact your local Planning Officer, who will happlily advise you on the current requirements, and whether your proposals will meet them.

 

Where is Magpie Patrick when we need him?

Edited September 9, 2009 by David Schweizer

[Speedwheel]

Only if the fireplace was specified in the listing.

 

Not so. Listing covers anything of historic significance whether it is specified or not. The problem is that significance is subjective so there are grey areas.

Edited September 9, 2009 by Satellite

[Timleech]

The advice if you wish to undertake works to a listed building, or any building (including any new build!) within a Conservation Area, or within a National Park, is to contact your local Planning Officer, who will happlily advise you on the current requirements, and whether your proposals will meet them.

 

I've always found the local planning people helpful on that score, they've been out to look at proposed work at the early stages and advised on what they would smile upon and what they wouldn't, though luckily haven't needed to trouble them for a while.

However a friend who bought a listed house in a neighbouring borough found the opposite, basically their attitude seemed to be along the lines of 'send in your plans & then we'll decide, we haven't got time for anything else', no question of any prior advice.

 

Tim

[Timleech]

Not so. Listing covers anything of historic significance whether it is specified or not. The problem is that significance is subjective so there are grey areas.

 

I was going by my own experience, there was nothing in the listing about the interior (except AFAIR some comment that the interior wasn't seen), and when we put in plans for extending the only interest in the interior was an insistence that we had a new staircase and raised doorways to comply with regulations (only just physically possible) because we had applied for an improvement grant, the Listed Building people weren't remotely interested and so far as I remember never saw it before or after.

 

Tim

[DHutch]

On the gunnels of a hold I personally would opt for wood. Where access from beneath is restricted such as along the back cabin, it may be a different question. Removing the range, table cupboard, bed'ole lining (ditto though easier the other side) every score years to replace due to rot - perhaps just in one area - certainly tipped the scales for me.

Im sure it would be frowned apon by many, but using a modern polyurethane sealant i would be very tempted to simply stick the gunnels on along the cabinsides. Bolt down the hold area for sure. BUt as said, where access for changing would be hard i think theres decent chance a pu sealent/addhsive would do you proud. Fake bolt heads optional.

 

 

Daniel

[CanalWalker]

A building round the corner from here was about to get listed status, but the day before it did the stone front of it was ripped down and removed, leaving just bare bricks. It then did not qualify for listing and has now been demolished to make way for a car park.

 

newspaper article and abusive emails from property developer

Edited September 9, 2009 by CanalWalker

[Max Sinclair]

I have put comparison pictures of Spitfire ( Harris Tug ) and Vesta ( GUCCC ) in my Album.

[alan_fincher]

I have put comparison pictures of Spitfire ( Harris Tug ) and Vesta ( GUCCC ) in my Album.

Max,

 

Not sure if I'm doing something wrong, but the pictures are coming up tiny, and are near 50% obliterated (for me at least) by the CWDF logo that gets put over the top.

 

I can't really see any detail at all, I'm afraid.

[grunders]

Thought I would put up a picture of Spitfire as at 19/08/2009:

 

 

I think that I personally would have kept the rounded bilge as I'm sure you could work around it and it adds to the historical character of the boat.

[Derek R.]

I think we are all a bit speechless about that sight.

[Speedwheel]

I think we are all a bit speechless about that sight.

 

When you see it in the flesh it looks even worse!

[churchward]

Of course!

 

Seriously, though, I don't think corrugated iron is an ideal material for a house roof and I wanted a thatch.

 

If anyone else wants a tin roof, to live under, then I would support their choice wholeheartedly.

A long time ago I stayed in a very small single story cottage in Ireland with a tin roof colourfully painted green (of course!) it looked fine against the whitewashed walls but boy was it noisy at night when it rained!!

[Derek R.]

I've a great deal of respect for corrugated iron, but getting back to Spitfire - it's as though someone has grafted the bottom part of a Reliant Robin onto an Aston Martin.

 

I'm sure the owners believe they are doing the best they can with whatever finances are available, but that does not show much respect for either a bit of industrial history or the reason for its original shape. One can either take the view that it has been 'butchered', or saved from a worse fate: sunk; sectioned and scrapped.

 

Derek

[Lady Muck]

I've a great deal of respect for corrugated iron, but getting back to Spitfire - it's as though someone has grafted the bottom part of a Reliant Robin onto an Aston Martin.

 

I'm sure the owners believe they are doing the best they can with whatever finances are available, but that does not show much respect for either a bit of industrial history or the reason for its original shape. One can either take the view that it has been 'butchered', or saved from a worse fate: sunk; sectioned and scrapped.

 

Derek

 

Perhaps it was him that wanted an historic boat but the only way he could persuade SWMBO to live on it was to alter the hull. Next she'll be badgering him to make it into a semi trad.

 

Wonder where the satellite dish will go?

 

It's a real shame BTW...

[Speedwheel]

I'm sure the owners believe they are doing the best they can with whatever finances are available, but that does not show much respect for either a bit of industrial history or the reason for its original shape. One can either take the view that it has been 'butchered', or saved from a worse fate: sunk; sectioned and scrapped.

 

Derek

 

The owners paid vastly over the odds for it in the first place. Had it have been going for a more realisitc figure I'm sure there are a few who would have liked it.

 

I understand that the owners 'should' know better.

[PhilR]

The owners paid vastly over the odds for it in the first place. Had it have been going for a more realisitc figure I'm sure there are a few who would have liked it.

 

I understand that the owners 'should' know better.

 

As a matter of interest, how much did the owners pay? and what would a realistic price have been?

[Derek R.]

As a matter of interest, how much did the owners pay? and what would a realistic price have been?

 

I personally do not know the owners nor the price, but the second question may be countered by another - how long is a piece of string? A realistic price may be the most the vendor can get from the buyer - to the vendor. Conversely, the least that can be paid by the buyer. As with any market, a realistic price is one agreed to on both sides. What price? How long is a piece of . . .

 

It's all relative to what you can afford, what value you place upon the item (an emotive aspect, unless you are a 'dealer'), and of course, what you intend to do with it. A realistic price may be one you can afford, and one which leaves you with enough left over to carry out the required plan. Then when all is done, and the item has reached the desired condition, it either gives immense satisfaction of a plan achieved, or it is sold on, and most likely realise perhaps less than half of that which has been spent on it completing the 'plan'.

 

The most 'real' factor in the equation, is that at the end of the day, the buyer will be poorer of pocket though hopefully wiser, and possibly without in this case a boat, or - enjoying a euphoric state of mind that exists in dreamers (albeit with the cost of ongoing maintenance and other associated fees).

 

Long live dreamers. It's just a pity that money gets in the way of the fulfilment for most. Then again, one persons dream may be another persons nightmare, which brings us back to looking at that last picture of what was 'Spitfire'.

 

Derek

 

PS Most peoples material dreams when fulfilled are enjoyed by spiders in the main. Mine have been.