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Walsall Top Lock


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There are times when a proprietor might take over other premises which may or may not be recorded elsewhere, hence my question about Hildick. I have been looking at the maps for this area in more detail and am keen to establish the exact location of the engine house. Whilst the lock tunnel riser appears to be near the towpath (and is still there), how that was conveyed to the engine house needs to be accurately determined. There is a large square building beside the basin on maps 1885- 1912, complete with chimney, there were also buildings placed behind the cottage, the question that remains to be answered is which of these structures was the pumping engine house?

 

The foundry was Birchills, but later a second foundry Beehive, was constructed SW of Birchills.

 

Ray Shill

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That's quite an astonishing coincidence. The image just shown taken from the bridge over the defunct Hildick arm, shows boats that appear to be in the same place as is shown on the Google 2009 copyrighted aerial shot.

 

Time travel anyone?

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Just received this picture which may be of interest to those following this topic...........

 

 

 

Picture-Copy_zps06dec9cc.jpg

Thats the first picture Ive seen of my gt grandparents house, they lived in one of the two cottages on the yard. Any idea of the year of this pic?

 

That's quite an astonishing coincidence. The image just shown taken from the bridge over the defunct Hildick arm, shows boats that appear to be in the same place as is shown on the Google 2009 copyrighted aerial shot.

 

Time travel anyone?

 

Ah but we're not sure if it should be called the Hildick's arm any more, I wonder where or when did the misconception arise about that arm?

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Ray I wasn't doubting you, I know you are meticulous in your research. I was pointing out that it didn't show on any of the old maps I have found and asked whether there was other evidence besides the distance tables. The fact that a full size basin and bridge were built would suggest to me that it was also used as a basin for the iron foundry which as you say was adjacent.

Regarding Hildick's as I said I agree with you, the evidence sent to me by the family and the relayed conversation all talk of the foundry being in Pleck and not Birchills as was thought (at least by a few of us).

 

 

Thanks for taking the time to send the pic through Archie, do you know where the boats for Hildick's were built?

WHITE HALL predates Hildick & Hildick as they did not acquire this boat until 1920. The first I have on WHITE HALL is when it was operated by Canal Traffic Association Ltd., Finsbury Court with its gauge being G.J.C. 11897 (05 September 1916) and its health registration being Paddington 247 (03 October 1916). The gauge table has this boat noted as being built in June 1916. A Birmingham health registration and a B.C.N. gauging suggest that WHITE HALL passed to Hildick & Hildick in 1920.

 

QUEEN OF THE OCEAN was originally owned by John Walker and was gauged as G.J.C. 11876 (10 September 1914) and health registered as Birmingham 1317 (02 October 1914). From subsequent gaugings and health registrations it appears to have passed to Hildick & Hildick in 1917. I am currently unable to make the link between QUEEN OF THE OCEAN and VICTORIA.

Edited by pete harrison
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Just received this picture which may be of interest to those following this topic...........

 

 

 

Picture-Copy_zps06dec9cc.jpg

 

That looks like the old trip boat "Maverick" from Calf Heath and the knackered Joeys are the last ones removed from Holly Bank which Enterprise removed. So I would say its late 1970's

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WHITE HALL predates Hildick & Hildick as they did not acquire this boat until 1920. The first I have on WHITE HALL is when it was operated by Canal Traffic Association Ltd., Finsbury Court with its gauge being G.J.C. 11897 (05 September 1916) and its health registration being Paddington 247 (03 October 1916). The gauge table has this boat noted as being built in June 1916. A Birmingham health registration and a B.C.N. gauging suggest that WHITE HALL passed to Hildick & Hildick in 1920.

 

QUEEN OF THE OCEAN was originally owned by John Walker and was gauged as G.J.C. 11876 (10 September 1914) and health registered as Birmingham 1317 (02 October 1914). From subsequent gaugings and health registrations it appears to have passed to Hildick & Hildick in 1917. I am currently unable to make the link between QUEEN OF THE OCEAN and VICTORIA.

 

From WCBS I borrowed this:

 

Originally named “Walsall Queen” this boat was built as part of a small fleet operated by malleable iron fittings manufacturer Hildick & Hildick during the first world war. The boats appear to have run between the Walsall area and Brentford but it is not known exactly what they carried or why. Another mystery about “Queen”s early days is where she was built.

“Walsall Queen”s known gauging numbers were B.C.N. 22719 and Grand Junction 12015. Her butty appears to have been “Queen of the Ocean”, B.C.N. No 22718. For some reason she was not registered as a dwelling until 21st January 1919 when she was numbered 387 in the Brentford register.

In the 1920s the fleet was dispersed and “Walsall Queen” was sold to Harvey Taylor of Aylesbury in 1924. Her name was shortened to “Queen” and the original heavy oil engine was replaced with a water drip Bolinder, possibly second hand. She was re-registered as Tring No 97.

 

Your records clarify what was thought about the butty and possibly explains why she wasn't re-registered until 1919 as she was already registered through J.Walker. Do the records on Walsall Queen seem accurate as far as you know? Thanks for having a look at these.

 

Laurence do you know when the cottages came down? Wasn't there a showroom or single storied building of some sort in their place by the early 80's?

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As I mentioned in an earlier post, "Queen of the Ocean" was traded in for the "Victoria" at Tooleys. I have seen the paperwork for the transaction in the past, but I'm not sure if it still exists - I wish I'd made a copy - isn't hindsight a wonderful thing!

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Your records clarify what was thought about the butty and possibly explains why she wasn't re-registered until 1919 as she was already registered through J.Walker. Do the records on Walsall Queen seem accurate as far as you know? Thanks for having a look at these.

The WCBS have the correct gauge numbers, but these are not all that they appear to be. B.C.N. 22719 is dated 23 June 1917 as WALSALL QUEEN with Hildick & Hildick, Walsall named as the owner. G.J.C. 12015 is dated 28 September 1917, again as WALSALL QUEEN with Hildick & Hildick, Walsall named as the owner.

 

I can confirm however that WALSALL QUEEN was never G.J.C. gauged as table 12015 is a copy of B.C.N. 22719 with a G.J.C. gauge number and re-dated. This practice was very common.

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As I mentioned in an earlier post, "Queen of the Ocean" was traded in for the "Victoria" at Tooleys. I have seen the paperwork for the transaction in the past, but I'm not sure if it still exists - I wish I'd made a copy - isn't hindsight a wonderful thing!

Sorry 'archie57', you are quite correct. That is why I can not connect QUEEN OF THE OCEAN and VICTORIA.

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Cheers Laurence now youve said that I can remember the sign and everything lol, went in there to pick up scumble once. Thanks again.

 

There did used to be stables on the yard as well but they're not shown on the maps I can find, I presume they must have been between the boat shed and the arm but theres no sign. The boat shed looks like it was built either during or just after the war as there is no sign of it on prewar maps and perhaps there were stables on the site of it before it was built.

Just a thought and not wanting to wander too far from topic if this thread still has merely one but, when did Ernie Thomas start his yard at the top lock and how big was it?

My granddad told me he used to live in one of the houses on the yard and his whole family worked or did at one time or another for ET since the 20's at least, yet pre 1938 maps show no boat docks where they were as I recall, and even the arm down to old Birchills had foundries either side so that would seem to suggest it wasnt a big area used by the firm. Yet he also told me how there were many horses kept on the yard, which makes sense when you consider the amount of boats he had.

Was it that most of his boats were in use and therefore he didnt need a big area to keep them with boats only returning to the yard for repairs which makes sense but in that case where were the stables?

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Another map now, different area but relevant to the discussion; Bottom lock/town arm/Pleck showing where Hildick's foundry actually was including basin (one of many on such a short length.

I have ringed the works and associated basin.

 

bad36852-49ad-4e90-9736-0b65ae944f17.jpg

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That map, for the Pleck, would be from 1900 period, 2nd O/S it shows the siding also that served Russell's Tube Works across the canal. Hildick & Hildick were within the ringed area as suggested and there was a canal basin that served them.

 

Ray Shill

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  • 2 months later...

It's a good question but I'm afraid I haven't a clue! The position of the engine 'ole doors on the "Whitehall" perhaps might give us a clue? AFAIK it didn't have an extended cabin as such

Having just watched (yet again) the late 1930's black and white promotional film Grand Union Canal the position of WHITE HALL's engine room doors are very visible, only now this boat is renamed LEON for Arthur Harvey-Taylor, Aylesbury. The engine room door on the other side of the cabin is in a more conventional position. I am unable to explain why the engine room door positioning is staggered but is one of many anomalies of these earlier motor boats (WHITE HALL built 1916).

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Another map now, different area but relevant to the discussion; Bottom lock/town arm/Pleck showing where Hildick's foundry actually was including basin (one of many on such a short length.

I have ringed the works and associated basin.

 

bad36852-49ad-4e90-9736-0b65ae944f17.jpg

 

Who has annotated those road names?? They are wrong in some instances, ie "Pleck rd bridge"

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Yes, there is a wrong re-captioning, but why?

 

Regarding Hildick & Hildick, there was an advert, early 1920's, that lists them as boat builders. It is probably a worthwhile discussion thread, but a number of boat owners, employed boat builders to maintain their fleets.

 

Ray Shill

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  • 2 years later...

Resurrecting an old thread, sorry.

 

On this map there is a building canalside.

 

http://maps.nls.uk/view/102347384#zoom=8&lat=4378&lon=6208&layers=BT

 

This is the building post-3500-0-98879400-1462057341_thumb.jpg

 

Obviously at one time it had canal deliveries, it appears on maps between 1900 and 1911.

 

Any idea what/who this was?

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Resurrecting an old thread, sorry.

 

On this map there is a building canalside.

 

http://maps.nls.uk/view/102347384#zoom=8&lat=4378&lon=6208&layers=BT

 

This is the building attachicon.gifpleck.JPG

 

Obviously at one time it had canal deliveries, it appears on maps between 1900 and 1911.

 

Any idea what/who this was?

 

This was colloquially referred to as the "Cheese Mill", at one time it had "Agents for Fellows, Morton & Clayton" emblazoned on a sign.

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  • 4 years later...

4th Resurrection of this thread, but bringing it back to the start.

 

Andy's site has a piece on this,

https://oldnblist.wordpress.com/2019/01/16/vanishing-crane/

 

and at the time I thought it rang a bell somewhere, now I've found it. one of two paintings (the other may be of a canal bridge in the Brownhills area but I haven't found that one yet).

The painting is signed H Tunstall but not dated, possibly a local artist, but clearly shows the crane ("C" in the map on the OP).

 

IMG_1610.JPG.906f18c0189d3eefe4483c07d3a42edc.JPG

 

springy

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