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Large old Radios in working boat cabins.


alan_fincher

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It is an interesting subject, and I have yet to spy one just like that shown in Banstead. Perhaps Richard might recognise it at Past Times Radio:

http://www.pasttimesradio.co.uk/index.html

 

I think as Alan implies, many would have jumped on the 'new' transistor radios of the sixties. Prior to that, maybe 'word of mouth' was more reliable than batteries!!

 

Derek

 

Just for info and ref "The Bargee" film (Harry Corbett) -- after some research, the transistor portable shown in the opening scenes is a Perdio Fanfare (PR36) dating from about 1962 (The "Spinney" model was very similar) using OC44/OC81 germanium transistors. Typically make about £10-15 on ebay these days---.

 

The domestic radio shown in the motor cabin sometime later in the film appears to be a Pilot "Little Maestro" which was in production in various cabinets in the 1950 /60's period most often as a 230v mains radio. However one authority says there was a battery version which probably still used external wet LT /dry HT batteries rather than a 12v vibrator for the latter.

 

The search continues---!

 

lawrie (NBT)

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Just for info and ref "The Bargee" film (Harry Corbett) -- after some research, the transistor portable shown in the opening scenes is a Perdio Fanfare (PR36) dating from about 1962 (The "Spinney" model was very similar) using OC44/OC81 germanium transistors. Typically make about £10-15 on ebay these days---.

 

The domestic radio shown in the motor cabin sometime later in the film appears to be a Pilot "Little Maestro" which was in production in various cabinets in the 1950 /60's period most often as a 230v mains radio. However one authority says there was a battery version which probably still used external wet LT /dry HT batteries rather than a 12v vibrator for the latter.

 

The search continues---!

 

lawrie (NBT)

 

Excellent! Thanks very much for looking them out.

I chased some links for Little Maestro, several models with that name, THIS one looks like it.

 

Derek

 

PS Just looked at the Perdios - I had a Popsy in the leather case back in 1960! Memories of listening to Luxembourg fading away and back!

Edited by Derek R.
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  • 2 months later...

Ancient radios and barges... two obsessions in one. That can't be healthy.

 

Having spent some time thinking about the radio side of my future floating home - I rejected, sadly, the idea of a 19 Set, even though it should be right at home in a large metal container with a smelly engine and oddly-clothed inhabitants. Something like an FT-101E would be a better balance between antique technology ('sgot valves, right?) and use of power/space. Although an 807 is clearly needed somewhere. And antennas are a whole other delight.

 

Has anyone seen pictures of ham radio gear in an ongoing canalboat interface scenario?

 

R

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I seem to remember being told that some Clayton boats carried battery radios in the 40s and/or 50s. As soon as they tied up, the shaft would be erected partway along the deck for the aerial wire to be strung over it, the whole family then disappearing into the cabin to listen. The batteries were charged at radio shops at either end of their journey.

 

Charlie Atkins had a portable tv when living on Mendip at Preston Brook. Although I think much tv is puerile, it was interesting to see how it opened up the world to people like Charlie who had difficulty reading, or even just accessing reading material.

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The 19-set would be a good test for your batteries!

 

I haven't got any pictures, but back in the '70s we took an FT101 on a hireboat. The boatyard chap was just showing us the fusebox and saying "you won't need to worry about what's in there" when someone walked past him carrying the rig.

 

We were taking part in a 48-hour contest on 40 metres. We'd been on /M from the van up to Great Haywood, including breaking all the fluorescent light tubes in the petrol station roof with our G-whip. We kept on the air, and we operated the rest of the weekend from the boat.

 

We had someone on the roof next to the antenna. As we approached each bridge the person on the roof would count down, at Zero the operator stopped speaking while the antenna was swung down flat, until after the bridge it was put back up and the person on the roof said "OK".

 

We became quite an attraction on the contest and did really well. The F101 was ideal.

 

A nice 813-based linear would be a good heater in the winter though

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The 19-set would be a good test for your batteries!

Additionally, if you have a boat with a large pump-out tank that is not centrally placed across the width, a 19 set could be very useful to keep the boat on a level trim. Simply move it further towards the "non tank" side of the boat, as the PO fills!

 

Plus if you get stuck on a lock cill or in junk in a bridge hole, in most cases the simple expedient of removing the 19 set from the boat to the bank until you are over the obstruction should prove sufficient.

 

(I'm sorry I let mine go, now!).

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The 19-set would be a good test for your batteries!

 

I haven't got any pictures, but back in the '70s we took an FT101 on a hireboat. The boatyard chap was just showing us the fusebox and saying "you won't need to worry about what's in there" when someone walked past him carrying the rig.

 

We were taking part in a 48-hour contest on 40 metres. We'd been on /M from the van up to Great Haywood, including breaking all the fluorescent light tubes in the petrol station roof with our G-whip. We kept on the air, and we operated the rest of the weekend from the boat.

 

We had someone on the roof next to the antenna. As we approached each bridge the person on the roof would count down, at Zero the operator stopped speaking while the antenna was swung down flat, until after the bridge it was put back up and the person on the roof said "OK".

 

We became quite an attraction on the contest and did really well. The F101 was ideal.

 

A nice 813-based linear would be a good heater in the winter though

 

 

Errr.... - this IS a canal boat forum isn't it, or have I logged into one of my amateur radio forums ?? :lol:

 

( I have just got my Comet mobile whip HF set back to being complete, as I have found my missing 40M coil.. so will be on HF on the boat on all bands this season ( and from home when not on the boat - like now !! ;) ;) Sked anyone ?

 

Nick

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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I think its interesting how media has moved with technology and how its affected peoples lives.

 

Working boaters listening around a huge valve set run off batteries, then transistor radios and now boaters

sitting on their boats watching Sky on their LCD flatscreens.

 

Ironically, the main problem in all narrowboats is the one of space.

Apart from the improved quality of the sound (the improvements in the programmes is debatable), entertainment items have gotten a lot smaller.

 

The laptop has become one of the latest incarnations of boaters entertainment devices and indirectly has become the replacement for the old wireless'

 

I also have a love of old radio's and have just taken delivery of an old Sailor RT144 VHF, which although transistorised rather than valves, has big clunky dials and switches.

 

Don't think I'll have room on the boat for it though....

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I think its interesting how media has moved with technology and how its affected peoples lives.

 

Working boaters listening around a huge valve set run off batteries, then transistor radios and now boaters

sitting on their boats watching Sky on their LCD flatscreens.

 

Ironically, the main problem in all narrowboats is the one of space.

Apart from the improved quality of the sound (the improvements in the programmes is debatable), entertainment items have gotten a lot smaller.

 

The laptop has become one of the latest incarnations of boaters entertainment devices and indirectly has become the replacement for the old wireless'

 

I also have a love of old radio's and have just taken delivery of an old Sailor RT144 VHF, which although transistorised rather than valves, has big clunky dials and switches.

 

Don't think I'll have room on the boat for it though....

 

 

 

Some while ago now, my father had a 30 footer cruiser/powerboat down at Emsworth ( 2 x 4 litre V8 petrol Volvo Pentas ) and that came with a Pye MF/HF transceiver - I was only maybe teens at the time so can't remember much about it, but think it transmitted on about 8 to 12 crystal controlled frequencies around 2 Megs, including 2182, into about an 8 or 10 foot whip, and I think it was an AM set ( maybe SSB as well) but I think only AM - probably around 18" high and wide and maybe 12" deep front to back - in light blue, with one half the TX section and the other half the RX section.. Not sure if the TX worked although the RX did seem to quite well... this was probably in the mid '60's vintage and had a mixture of valves and transistors in it...

 

Does anyone know what set this may have been and the bands / power / modes it worked on ?

 

Currently I use an Icom 746 for HF/6, choice of smaller radios for 2/70 and sometimes the FT290 with 25W amp for 2M SSB...

 

Nick

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Sounds like the PM125 Hamble.

 

It would have been a double sideband set as SSB didn't come in until the eighties.

 

The PM125 had a transistorised, tunable receiver and an 8 channel crystal controlled transmitter.

 

The RF power output was 20 Watts AM or CW into 50 Ohms.

 

The frequencies covered were 150 - 400 KHz, 535 - 1605 KHz and 1.6 - 3.8 MHz.

Edited by NB Willawaw
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Sounds like the PM125 Hamble.

 

It would have been a double sideband set as SSB didn't come in until the eighties.

 

The PM125 had a transistorised, tunable receiver and an 8 channel crystal controlled transmitter.

 

The RF power output was 20 Watts AM or CW into 50 Ohms.

 

The frequencies covered were 150 - 400 KHz, 535 - 1605 KHz and 1.6 - 3.8 MHz.

 

 

YES !! I remember the name Hamble ! And DSB, although didn't know what that meant either... It was before I got into Amateur radio so none of it meant anything to me then...

 

Being Xtal controlled TX it wasn't worth keeping for Am radio then ( and I haven't touched a key since the test, although , strangely, I do have an urge to learn it again... which I can't explain...

 

I assume it only TX'd on the HF section, not the MF sections ? I think I may even have the handbook for it somewhere....

 

Thanks for that... :lol:

 

 

Nick

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When I used to visit my Grandad in the early fifties one of my little jobs would be to take the radio accumulators to be charged, the local radio shop would offer this service at very little cost.. His house of course was yet to be connected to the mains..

 

I remember too that most old pre-war radio sets had many options for input power, as in Carl's photo's the valve heaters would need 90 volts and the pure radio bits a much lower voltage.

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I think only the receiver was MF. The transmitter would be what they called IF or MHF (1.6 - 3.8 MHz).

 

There were a few radios like that, which found their way on to trawlers and yachts e.g. Pentland Bravo

 

I would quite like a Sailor broadcast receiver which is the RX part of the transceiver, as it can be used as a normal

radio at home or on the boat, but again its a space thing..

 

A friend of mine has one and I can't visit him without switching it on and fiddling with the knobs and buttons.

 

Modern touch keys and touch screens don't offer the same interface.

 

I must be a frustrated knob twiddler. :lol:

 

I have a morse key and used to do about 25wpm, but its not used on ships anymore and ham radio doesn't light my fire.

 

When radio was the only way of covering distance, it had a magic quality, but now we have satellite and everything is a touch-tone away,

it doesn't hold the same thrill.

Edited by NB Willawaw
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I think only the receiver was MF. The transmitter would be what they called IF or MHF (1.6 - 3.8 MHz).

 

There were a few radios like that, which found their way on to trawlers and yachts e.g. Pentland Bravo

 

I would quite like a Sailor broadcast receiver which is the RX part of the transceiver, as it can be used as a normal

radio at home or on the boat, but again its a space thing..

 

A friend of mine has one and I can't visit him without switching it on and fiddling with the knobs and buttons.

 

Modern touch keys and touch screens don't offer the same interface.

 

I must be a frustrated knob twiddler. :lol:

 

I have a morse key and used to do about 25wpm, but its not used on ships anymore and ham radio doesn't light my fire.

 

When radio was the only way of covering distance, it had a magic quality, but now we have satellite and everything is a touch-tone away,

it doesn't hold the same thrill.

 

 

I struggled at 12 wpm but he let me through on the second attempt... and likewise about the "attraction" about radio - used to be more interesting than now when everyone has a "radio" (cellphone), although they only go a mile or two and depend on "service available" but it still holds me that a piece of wire or a ? 8' whip can send my voice around the world with no external help like the internet or phone system... and without mains or anything, even from the "middle of a field" - that's still intriguing / fascinating !! ( to me )

 

Nick

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I remember too that most old pre-war radio sets had many options for input power, as in Carl's photo's the valve heaters would need 90 volts and the pure radio bits a much lower voltage.

Nope!

 

Other way about!

 

The heaters could be powered for example by 1.5 volt dry cells, or 2 volt rechargeable lead acid accumulators.

 

The high tension side of a valve set, even using those lower powered "miniature" valves used by later battery sets, was seldom less than 90 volts, often higher, (achieved by a massive bank of stacked dry cells in a cardboard wrapped battery - think 9volt PP3 or PP9, but with 10 times the number of individual cells in!)

 

Where mains power was available, heaters were sometimes of a set voltage, (like 6.3 volts, I think, for the valves starting 'E'), but often relied on valve heaters being in a string like Christmas tree lights, each designed to use the same current, (but often with different voltages). IIRC there were 'U' series valves typically used in radios and 'P' series valves in TV. Such an arrangement didn't use up all your 240 volts, (or 200 volts, or whatever!), so there was usually a massive green (usually) dropper resistor in the chain, to use the excess volts, (a pure waste of power, nowt else!).

 

In most mains TVs and radios, the mains was simply rectified and smoothed to give the high tension to run the set, so they ran around the 200v to 240 volt mark, which is why sticking your finger in was seldom a good move!

 

Something like the military 19 set referred to needed a higher voltage for the big valve used for transmitting, (was THAT an 807 ??), and this was achieved by power packs using rotary converters, to get the various high voltages involved. As someone said, these would soon eat a typical narrow boat battery!

 

Didn't mention the "grid bias" battery in battery sets this time - another part of the equation!

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Nope!

 

Other way about!

 

The heaters could be powered for example by 1.5 volt dry cells, or 2 volt rechargeable lead acid accumulators.

 

The high tension side of a valve set, even using those lower powered "miniature" valves used by later battery sets, was seldom less than 90 volts, often higher, (achieved by a massive bank of stacked dry cells in a cardboard wrapped battery - think 9volt PP3 or PP9, but with 10 times the number of individual cells in!)

 

Where mains power was available, heaters were sometimes of a set voltage, (like 6.3 volts, I think, for the valves starting 'E'), but often relied on valve heaters being in a string like Christmas tree lights, each designed to use the same current, (but often with different voltages). IIRC there were 'U' series valves typically used in radios and 'P' series valves in TV. Such an arrangement didn't use up all your 240 volts, (or 200 volts, or whatever!), so there was usually a massive green (usually) dropper resistor in the chain, to use the excess volts, (a pure waste of power, nowt else!).

 

In most mains TVs and radios, the mains was simply rectified and smoothed to give the high tension to run the set, so they ran around the 200v to 240 volt mark, which is why sticking your finger in was seldom a good move!

 

Something like the military 19 set referred to needed a higher voltage for the big valve used for transmitting, (was THAT an 807 ??), and this was achieved by power packs using rotary converters, to get the various high voltages involved. As someone said, these would soon eat a typical narrow boat battery!

 

Didn't mention the "grid bias" battery in battery sets this time - another part of the equation!

 

 

Nuvistors ?

 

Nick

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  • 5 weeks later...
many thanks for everybody's thoughts,info and quips!

 

The query came about as an idea to embellish a working butty's (=brighton) cabin with an authentic domestic radio of ww2 or a later period up to the effective end of commercial carrying.

 

It would appear that in the 1930's and through WW2 a few simple battery sets (and maybe crystal sets before that) as used on the bank several or many years before were in use mainly for entertainment purposes at night or possibly at "gatherings". HT voltage (90v?) from a dry battery and LT (2v) from wet cells (accumulators) whenever charging facilities were available on the bank. An example would be the Cossor Melody mMaker or the Osram Music Magnet----.

 

Perhaps with the advent of 6 or 12v power supplies from the motor of a working pair it is possible that during WW2 ex military "welfare""receivers (which utilised 6 or 12v vibrators for the valve HT supply)were available to working boat people? Examples would be the PCR range or the Hale Electric set--.

 

However by the early 1950's many civilian portable sets would have became available (Pye, Everv Ready, Cossor etc). These used new technology low voltage 1.4v valve filaments with fairly modest dry battery (LT and HT)requirements and would have served up to the end of commercial carrying in the mid 1960's?

 

Fianally-the radio shown in Banstead's cabin (Harry Corbett- in The Bargee) is intriguing!Does anyone recognise the make and/or did BW working boats have 230v ac generators in 1960???

 

thanks to all once again!

 

L awrie (NBT member)

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I think only the receiver was MF. The transmitter would be what they called IF or MHF (1.6 - 3.8 MHz).

 

There were a few radios like that, which found their way on to trawlers and yachts e.g. Pentland Bravo

 

I would quite like a Sailor broadcast receiver which is the RX part of the transceiver, as it can be used as a normal

radio at home or on the boat, but again its a space thing..

 

A friend of mine has one and I can't visit him without switching it on and fiddling with the knobs and buttons.

 

Modern touch keys and touch screens don't offer the same interface.

 

I must be a frustrated knob twiddler. :lol:

 

I have a morse key and used to do about 25wpm, but its not used on ships anymore and ham radio doesn't light my fire.

 

When radio was the only way of covering distance, it had a magic quality, but now we have satellite and everything is a touch-tone away,

it doesn't hold the same thrill.

We use to listen to "The Archers" on the "Sailor Set"

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--further to my last and for interest!

 

It took some finding but finally located a Pilot radio table model in wood veneer hopefully for the NBT butty (Brighton).

Dating from the late 1930/40's period it looks the part (see Painted boats movie) and is reasonably small in size

given the constraints of a working boat cabin. It operates satisfactorily on internal ferrite rod and wire aerials

and has a Celestion 8 "elliptical speaker plus a tone control----.

 

However it is in fact a wolf in sheep's clothing since the original (valved) interior has been removed and a 1970's

Roberts radio transistorised chassis (pcb) expertly installed instead (not by me!) Thus a VHF fm capability as well as

medium wave! The new chassis only requires a 9v supply so it has proved relatively easy to convert to 12v dc /cigar lighter operation with a PP9 battery option if it ever has to work on the bank.

 

One problem of course on medium wave is that the tuning scale legend is well out of date being engraved with Radio Hilversum, Athlone, Luxembourg ,Toulouse etc. However on Vhf, since the BBC channel bands are grouped, tuning is easy

with the help of a simple chart.

 

Not sure what the reaction of trust members will be to this innovation. The purists might say that boat people historically were too poor to ever afford domestic radio although both Tom Rolt in 1939 and |David Blagrove in 1960 mention their use on the cut---.

 

lawrie (nbt member)

 

lawrie (

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HT battery:-

 

image0-3-2.jpg

 

Grid bias battery:-

 

image1-1.jpg

(not all sets needed them)

 

From 'The book of Practical Radio', 1934

 

Doesn't answer your question, though.

 

Tim

 

My grandads old ``STEAM RADIO``had a dry batt & a wet glass cased job. My chore was to take the flat one to the local garage [15mins walk each way] & exchange it for a charged one It cost 2 pence in old money & he used to give me 3pence so I could buy 1pence worth of sweets at the post office on the way back. I remember the post master made you leave it outside saying I don`t want acid spilled on my new lino floor, The HT batt if i remember was about the size of 2 bricks together on their sides I don`t know the voltage for sure but 90volts seems to ring a bell I know They were so heavy I used to take my little hand cart to carry a new one home. I remember the rechargable ones were connected to long metal rods with alligater clipped wires & there always seemed to be about 10/15 on charge every time I went I think the acc`s belonged to the garage you paid a rental fee at the beginning & 2d or whatever for each charge bit like gas bottle ex.I remember grandad moaning if he got a acc that didn`t seem to last as long I didn`t mind I got extra sweets I do remember that both batt & acc fitted in the radio cabinet I would imagine thats why the cabinet were so big.

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  • 10 years later...

Just came across this old thread.

 

Rechargeable HT batteries did exist pre-war, but as can be seen from the accompanying extract from a book on accumulator charging published in 1941 (Accumulator Charging, Maintenance and Repair,  by W. S. Ibbetson)  they were almost extinct  by then, having been largely superseded by dry batteries.  They had cells arranged in groups of 5 or 6 (10V or 12 V). The groups were connected in series to operate a radio, and in parallel for charging, so could well have been charged on a boat that had a 12V dynamo. Few people nowadays seem to appreciate that such things existed, including members of a vintage wireless forum I subscribe to, so it's not surprising they have not been mentioned here. They are as rare as hens' teeth today. Apparently some versions had a special multi-pin plug that connected the cell groups in series when inserted one way, and parallel the other way. 

 

I believe that in the pre-war period, no radio licence was required for a radio that was powered only by its internal batteries.  In the 1980's Vidor were still manufacturing dry HT batteries, including the "Winner", for industrial and military customers, but were not offered for sale to ordinary consumers, no doubt due to lack of demand.

 

 

HT1.jpg

HT2.jpg

HT3.jpg

HT4.jpg

Edited by Ronaldo47
Typo
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  • 3 weeks later...
31 minutes ago, Big Bob W said:

Digging through some old photo's and came across this.

My late Dad, some time in the late '50s. Probably on the Soar - my grandparents had one of the chalets at Zouch.

 

 

Dad River Soar.jpg

Ah - an old WW2 18set - always the butt of "have you received new batteries yet". Pretty B-awful when used in anger in WW2, but freely available via surplus stores up Lisle St and Tottenham Court road.

It worked on the 6Mhz band part of which was available to radio amateurs (hams) so not in breach of wireless regulations - not that they got monitored anyway.

 

Happy days. CQ,CQ - is anybody there......

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6 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

Ah - an old WW2 18set - always the butt of "have you received new batteries yet". Pretty B-awful when used in anger in WW2, but freely available via surplus stores up Lisle St and Tottenham Court road.

It worked on the 6Mhz band part of which was available to radio amateurs (hams) so not in breach of wireless regulations - not that they got monitored anyway.

 

Well, that's cleared up the mystery of what the radio was!

I am fairly familiar with the 19 set - in fact I am sure there is one in the attic somewhere.

I am guessing he was working the 40m band in that case. It would have been interesting to see what antenna he was using. I'll get looking through the photo's again.

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