Allan(nb Albert) Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 It would seem that very few people are attending the BW Roadshows. Perhaps we are all suffering from "spin lag". However, Waterways World has arranged a "virtual meeting". Point your bowser at www.waterwaysworld.com on Monday 14 September between 1700 and 1900. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sueb Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Retired people are cruising, workers are working, what do BW expect? I looked at the list of places and we haven't been near any of them. Having said that boaters are really apathetic.. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlt Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Having said that boaters are really apathetic.. People are apathetic. Boaters are just people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiny Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Retired people are cruising, workers are working, what do BW expect? I looked at the list of places and we haven't been near any of them.Having said that boaters are really apathetic.. Sue It is a fact of life that most people in this country are ever more apathetic. That's why them that rool us and loose our money and all the rest can get away with it and all we do is moan a bit. Come the revolution.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Schweizer Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Retired people are cruising, workers are working, what do BW expect? I looked at the list of places and we haven't been near any of them.Having said that boaters are really apathetic.. Sue Government organizions do this on purpose. It reminds me of when I worked for the Local Education Authority. The DES always launched major consultations in July for response before the end of August, just when Schools were closed, and most Teachers and Eduction Department staff were on holiday, so no meetings of staff could be easily arranged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan(nb Albert) Posted August 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Government organizions do this on purpose. It reminds me of when I worked for the Local Education Authority. The DES always launched major consultations in July for response before the end of August, just when Schools were closed, and most Teachers and Eduction Department staff were on holiday, so no meetings of staff could be easily arranged. I think to be fair to BW (... and I'm always fair to BW:-) ......... This year they arranged meetings on Saturdays so that those working could attend. No excuse being boating - some boaters are officials in user groups - they manage to get to meetings. I suspect boaters are apathetic because BW have made them that way. A simplified explanation of why our waterways are slowly falling into disrepair is here. I find it rather disturbing that Private Eye will be publishing two of my Narrowboatworld articles but it seems that boaters and the groups that represent them are so apathetic that they are not kicking up stink. Regards Allan ps Private Eye have told Narrowboatworld that the articles may lead to a question in the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soldthehouse Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 People are apathetic. Boaters are just people. have you considered writing a book I think to be fair to BW (... and I'm always fair to BW:-) ......... This year they arranged meetings on Saturdays so that those working could attend. No excuse being boating - some boaters are officials in user groups - they manage to get to meetings. I suspect boaters are apathetic because BW have made them that way. A simplified explanation of why our waterways are slowly falling into disrepair is here. I find it rather disturbing that Private Eye will be publishing two of my Narrowboatworld articles but it seems that boaters and the groups that represent them are so apathetic that they are not kicking up stink. Regards Allan ps Private Eye have told Narrowboatworld that the articles may lead to a question in the house. Well done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest User Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 .......... between 1700 and 1900. During which time I'll be travelling home from work, putting the kettle on, kicking off my shoes, and probably turning on the computer just in time to catch the end of it ... could do with being a bit later ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinClark Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 I can't see what the big deal is about an on-line meeting of 2 hours. After all - what are we doing here now? The on-line meeting at canalworld.net is ongoing 24 hours a day and if you are not on-line at a particular time you can just join in when you do have a chance to get on-line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan(nb Albert) Posted August 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 (edited) I can't see what the big deal is about an on-line meeting of 2 hours. After all - what are we doing here now? The on-line meeting at canalworld.net is ongoing 24 hours a day and if you are not on-line at a particular time you can just join in when you do have a chance to get on-line. IIRC the only BW person of seniority who has contributed to this forum was Eugene Baston (before his very sudden and unexplained departure). The only time I can recall a BW director debating on any forum was several years ago when Simon Salem was goaded into trying to convince shared owners that BW had not changed its policy towards them (on the OwnerShips forum). He got such a mauling that they have not done it since. If we debate on this forum we are not debating with BW we are debating amonst ourselves. Waterwaysworld has challenged BW to debate online and BW have agreed. A feather in the cap of Richard Fairhurst. Perhaps someone would like to raise the issue of BW being unresponsive to this forum during the debate? Well done Charlotte Atkins Labour MP for Staffordshire Moorlands "To ask the waterways minister who is Victor Swift............" Edited August 11, 2009 by Allan(nb Albert) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayalld Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Charlotte Atkins Labour MP for Staffordshire Moorlands "To ask the waterways minister who is Victor Swift............" .... and what action his colleague the health minister will take to regulate internet access for those committed under the mental health acts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starman Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 People are apathetic. Boaters are just people. True, but people become increasingly apathetic as they see that taking part becomes a worthless exercise. "Roadshows" and "consultation documents" are classical means by which those in charge can display a facade of taking outside opinions on board while actually manipulating the outcomes to suit their own requirements. I can't honestly believe that BW top brass will take any real account of the views of 50 odd boaters who've bothered to go and sit in a hall somewhere. The only thing that seemed, briefly, to be getting somewhere was the 'Save Our Waterways' protests of a while back – a touch of Gallic style mass action and visible anger! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlt Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 have you considered writing a book Are you a publisher? How big an advance can you give me? How long have I got before you notice I've spent the advance and gone boating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soldthehouse Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Are you a publisher? How big an advance can you give me? How long have I got before you notice I've spent the advance and gone boating? I was hoping for a small token gesture from you first book by way of a thankyou after recognising your undoubted literary skills as I am currently clawing my way into the world of boating and inevitable financial hardship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Retired people are cruising, workers are working, what do BW expect? I looked at the list of places and we haven't been near any of them.Having said that boaters are really apathetic.. Sue Shall we say "Most Boaters"? Fiona went to the one at Billsborough and I went to the one at Ellesmere Port, travveling quite a distance - and we are continuous cruisers. So cruising is no excuse. Admittedly as a member of NABO Council I made an extra effort, but I think one of would have gone to one of the "consultations" anyway. At the first there were 9 boaters, and a few more at the second including one cycling boater - no anglers. Vince Moran admitted they had failed miserably to publicise the meetings widely! I must speak up for BW on one point - at least one of the issues I raised has been addressed since the meeting, so it wasn't a complete waste of time. What did anger me was the press release before the second event where Robin Evans said that those attending were broadly in favour of the new 2020 vision - that was not the case at the meetings either of us attended - before and after the PR. Mr Moran admitted they had no idea how the changes to charity/third sector might be achieved. There was significant warning against going down that route, but most people said they would wait to give an opinion until there was more flesh on the proposals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan(nb Albert) Posted August 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Shall we say "Most Boaters"? Fiona went to the one at Billsborough and I went to the one at Ellesmere Port, travveling quite a distance - and we are continuous cruisers. So cruising is no excuse. Admittedly as a member of NABO Council I made an extra effort, but I think one of would have gone to one of the "consultations" anyway.At the first there were 9 boaters, and a few more at the second including one cycling boater - no anglers. Vince Moran admitted they had failed miserably to publicise the meetings widely! I must speak up for BW on one point - at least one of the issues I raised has been addressed since the meeting, so it wasn't a complete waste of time. What did anger me was the press release before the second event where Robin Evans said that those attending were broadly in favour of the new 2020 vision - that was not the case at the meetings either of us attended - before and after the PR. Mr Moran admitted they had no idea how the changes to charity/third sector might be achieved. There was significant warning against going down that route, but most people said they would wait to give an opinion until there was more flesh on the proposals. I'm pleased that BW have addressed an issue you raised John. However, I suspect that contrary to what Robin Evans says boater are broadly against 2020. Due to BW spending (perhaps gambling would be a better word) £250m on property and joint ventures in recent years rather than maintaining the waterways at steady state we need a emergency plan rather than a long term vision. Boaters understand this even if they don't articulate it well. Unfortunately, BW's minutes tend to indicate that it is more focussed, at the moment, in saving its joint ventures rather than saving its canals. As we are now aware, last year it used £33.3m to prop up failing joint venture companies that it claims are ring fenced. We should be asking why? We should also be asking why the £125m pa needed to maintain our canal system is not ringfenced by government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaggle Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Well done well done indeed , say nothing about people who said he should shup up and bw ignore his information requests and him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 Vince Moran admitted they had failed miserably to publicise the meetings widely! Mr Moran admitted they had no idea how the changes to charity/third sector might be achieved. [rant] From what I have seen in published "interviews" with Vince Moran, he has no idea about how anything connected with the waterways network can be achieved. He appears to be the archetypal example of what can go wrong with BW senior management, and unless he comes over far worse in print than as an actual person, there is little chance of sensible policy decisions at BW, if people like him are instrumental in making them. I do not think I could bring myself to attend public meetings and consultations if senior BW men were going to demonstrate that much ignorance of the heritage is supposed to be under their charge. [/rant] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelunga Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Shall we say "Most Boaters"? Fiona went to the one at Billsborough and I went to the one at Ellesmere Port, travveling quite a distance - and we are continuous cruisers. So cruising is no excuse. Admittedly as a member of NABO Council I made an extra effort, but I think one of would have gone to one of the "consultations" anyway.At the first there were 9 boaters, and a few more at the second including one cycling boater - no anglers. Vince Moran admitted they had failed miserably to publicise the meetings widely! I must speak up for BW on one point - at least one of the issues I raised has been addressed since the meeting, so it wasn't a complete waste of time. What did anger me was the press release before the second event where Robin Evans said that those attending were broadly in favour of the new 2020 vision - that was not the case at the meetings either of us attended - before and after the PR. Mr Moran admitted they had no idea how the changes to charity/third sector might be achieved. There was significant warning against going down that route, but most people said they would wait to give an opinion until there was more flesh on the proposals. I went to the one at Crick, but they (BW) avoided really answering my question as to what BW thought the purpose and priorities were on the canals. The answer certainly wasn't boats, but things like "Eco what nots and furry creatures" was the impression they created in my mind!!! (When I found it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan(nb Albert) Posted September 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 I went to the one at Crick, but they (BW) avoided really answering my question as to what BW thought the purpose and priorities were on the canals. The answer certainly wasn't boats, but things like "Eco what nots and furry creatures" was the impression they created in my mind!!! (When I found it) The answer should have been - The strategic steer (i.e. what government is telling them they should be doing) sets out three priorities in order of importance:- 1. Maintaining the waterway network in satisfactory order. 2. Achieving the shared Government/British Waterways longer term vision of moving towards greater self-sufficiency. 3. Delivering a range of additional public benefits. I guess they have failed on the first by simply under investing and the second by taking all the grant they can get every year. The third is a bit nebulous but if we use a measure of visitor numbers then they have failed on that as well. Perhaps BW were reluctant to say that the No. one priority is to maintain the network in satisfactory order when they have been deliberately neglecting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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