cheshire narrowboats

[Strads]

As a variation certain builders screw the batons on the ribs / angle iron in side - then spray foam -

 

to assist they first coevered all the batons with brown parcel tape -

 

once down all we had to do was take a scraper to the batons to clear those - in the main the foan was level to the batons (approx 2-3 inches thickm and

we then too a loose baton and ran it down the batons marking the high spots with a black marker pen - to then attached with a saw - messy but a couple of hours work sorts the worse out..

 

 

One peice of advice I would give - if you having windows cut in - you have more flexibility - if they ar elaready there then they may doctate the layout options..

 

But do not rush draw up a list of what ultilities you need / want eg water / electricty (type 12/24/230v) gas / oil pipes

bathroom layout / position / kitchen layout.

 

we actually used graph paper to create the main variations / options .. and then made paper templates of the essential items (basin / toilet)

placed batons on the floor to show the walls and then double check where the plus should go,, pipe runs / cables runs,, these may even effect the floor height.

 

it may take weekend to do and get to a consensus - but will save time/ money and grief... (disnt stop me moving the wradrobe wall 3 times and adjusting the bed length height 4 time to suit!!,

 

but you can also then measure / budget pipe run lengths cables and cost the majority of the job...

 

2 years and counting for our project - partlyy as whilst and when we stay on the boat often we cant always do work - in late / knackered etc..

and parts / tools need sorting etc...

 

hope that helps

[umpire]

went to see cheshire narrowboats today the guy chris was ok but seemed to want to standardise wat i wanted, i may look again here the only thing i thought odd was no full length rubbing straif they seemed solid enought though

[david and julie]

went to see cheshire narrowboats today the guy chris was ok but seemed to want to standardise wat i wanted, i may look again here the only thing i thought odd was no full length rubbing straif they seemed solid enought though

He's not changed then.

 

I'd be suprised if there wasn't a rubbing strake, could you possibly have glanced at the lower strakes, which don't go the full length, by mistake?

 

To me the price difference between his own boats and the Tyler ones make his look like false economy. They may be great boats, but in the long run I doubt they'd ever be worth as much as the Tyler ones.

http://www.lmbs.co.uk/frame.htm

 

You can also get the Tyler sailaways from here.

http://www.cvmarine.co.uk/sailaway/sailaway.htm#myfly

[umpire]

He's not changed then.

 

I'd be suprised if there wasn't a rubbing strake, could you possibly have glanced at the lower strakes, which don't go the full length, by mistake?

 

To me the price difference between his own boats and the Tyler ones make his look like false economy. They may be great boats, but in the long run I doubt they'd ever be worth as much as the Tyler ones.

http://www.lmbs.co.uk/frame.htm

 

You can also get the Tyler sailaways from here.

http://www.cvmarine.co.uk/sailaway/sailaway.htm#myfly

thanks will look at that

[Liam]

There are two boats on my moorings from Lymm Marina. One is a 45ft Piper Trad style and the other one is a 45ft Cruiser stern from somewhere in Stoke if I remember rightly. Not sure of the builder.

 

The owner of the Stoke boat originally went there to enquire but wasn't very pleased with Chris's attitude so took his money elsewhere. Unfortunately he was messed about with some other sailaway provider and ended up loosing a few quid. He then went back to Lymm Marina and finally got what he was looking for there!

 

Both are very proud of their boat after doing a self fit out job in under 6 months and are continously using their boats.

[umpire]

looks like i need a few plans for internal fit out stoll cant find a reasonable second hand boat any one got any or a full list of equipment to start me off

[Sven_8t4]

looks like i need a few plans for internal fit out stoll cant find a reasonable second hand boat any one got any or a full list of equipment to start me off

 

same here!

[umpire]

is it just me or am i setting my sights to high looking at second hand boats and expecting too much like no stinky smells, electrics that work, pictures that are current on brokers websites and not taken 10 years ago when stuff was new (false advertising or wat) boats advertised as ready to go to find that the engine needs repairing maybe im being to picky and want to much for my money after all thousands of hard earned pounds grow on trees

Edited July 25, 2009 by umpire

[NB Willawaw]

To some extent, it depends on how old the boats are that you are looking at (and what your budget is ??)

 

At the end of the day, if you looked at a secondhand house, it will look lived in.

 

With narrowboats, you have the added complication that they are often poorly maintained and are often built

by amateur jack of all trades, who by definition, won't be good at everything.

 

Many self fitouts tend to have strong and weak points.

 

My speciality is electrics and you would be surprised how botched many new self fitouts are.

 

Owner/builders think that 12V electrics are simple, so do it all themselves. Things work, but the quality of the wiring, connections

and routing is often not up to a professional standard.

 

Many boats are on the market because their owners can't afford to maintain them, or have lost interest in them

or are sick and can't get down to them.

 

These reasons mean that the boats tend not to be first class quality.

 

If it bothers you that much, then you'd be better looking at new.

Edited July 25, 2009 by NB Willawaw

[umpire]

To some extent, it depends on how old the boats are that you are looking at (and what your budget is ??)

 

At the end of the day, if you looked at a secondhand house, it will look lived in.

 

With narrowboats, you have the added complication that they are often poorly maintained and are often built

by amateur jack of all trades, who by definition, won't be good at everything.

 

Many self fitouts tend to have strong and weak points.

 

My speciality is electrics and you would be surprised how botched many new self fitouts are.

 

Owner/builders think that 12V electrics are simple, so do it all themselves. Things work, but the quality of the wiring, connections

and routing is often not up to a professional standard.

 

Many boats are on the market because their owners can't afford to maintain them, or have lost interest in them

or are sick and can't get down to them.

 

These reasons mean that the boats tend not to be first class quality.

 

If it bothers you that much, then you'd be better looking at new.

theres lived in and used and thats ok i understand that but why do brokers expect you to pay so much for crap, i dont mind doing work on it but hey cmon there having a laugh thats wat im talking about wats the point in telling you lies when they know your getting a survey done

[NB Willawaw]

You would be surprised at how many buyers have no idea what they are looking at, pay top dollar and then can't afford a survey.

 

When many people buy a boat, heart rules head.

 

I'm not condoning it, but many brokers try it on.

 

If the buyer turns out to know something about the subject, the price can always be dropped and inaccuracies covered up by claims

of misunderstandings and incompetence.

 

Not all brokers are the same, but there are a few con merchants.

[umpire]

You would be surprised at how many buyers have no idea what they are looking at, pay top dollar and then can't afford a survey.

 

When many people buy a boat, heart rules head.

 

I'm not condoning it, but many brokers try it on.

 

If the buyer turns out to know something about the subject, the price can always be dropped and inaccuracies covered up by claims

of misunderstandings and incompetence.

 

Not all brokers are the same, but there are a few con merchants.

i must be unlucky then getting the ones who always try it on i dont mind paying a fair price but when the boat needs new elecs and a refit or other major work then hey cmon are you going to trust a broker (who normaly have a chandlers attached) then they lose the buisness false economy so cmon brokers get ya act together think long term not sort term in ya pocket profit

[PhilR]

They may be great boats, but in the long run I doubt they'd ever be worth as much as the Tyler ones.

http://www.lmbs.co.uk/frame.htm

 

What name is Tim Tyler trading under these days?

[david and julie]

What name is Tim Tyler trading under these days?

Could be taken as derogatory that Phil.

 

Just curious, but how do you make a living.

[PhilR]

Could be taken as derogatory that Phil.

 

Just curious, but how do you make a living.

 

It wasn't meant to be derogatory at all. TT builds very good boats. The reason I asked is because I seem to remember that Tim used to build shells and fully fitted boats at Hixon, and the finished boats were sold under a different company name. Is Tim only building shells now?

 

I'm retired :-)

 

Phil

[david and julie]

It wasn't meant to be derogatory at all.

Fair enough Phil, I must have taken you the wrong way.

 

To be honest, if researching these people your asking the wrong person, I only quoted the Tyler shells because LMBS have them on their site. Wilsons do have a much better website now and an owners club, perhaps you can find out more info from that?

http://www.wilsontylerboatbuilders.com/index.html

 

When I bought my sailaway I went to Lymm first and at the time he was a having them built by LB/Piper/Wilson and also had his own Cheshire named boats in stock. I didn't think there was enough difference in price at the time to justify an unknown make and Chris was a bit inflexible in what he offered - perhaps understandably so. He wouldn't get me what I wanted so I contacted Wilson and Piper direct and ended up with Piper, mainly because it was easier to get back home as the price was much the same. The ironic part was that whilst I was at Pipers finalising the deal Chris came in the office, recognised me and said he would have changed his standard format had I asked I think the penny had just dropped that he had lost a sale.

[Cosmic]

A visit to the LMBS site (click "Sales List") shows that the site was last updated on 22nd January. The boats listed are available from March 2009. Also their "latest news" is that they will be shut for Easter.

 

I know that a lot of builders are more interested in building boats than maintaining their websites but (particularly in the current economic climate) they are hardly doing themselves any favours by appearing not to be very active.

[umpire]

its not just builders that need to update brokerages should do this daily dunno how many times ive rung up and theve said thats sold 6 months ago

[Ray T]

is it just me or am i setting my sights to high looking at second hand boats and expecting too much like no stinky smells, electrics that work, pictures that are current on brokers websites and not taken 10 years ago when stuff was new (false advertising or wat) boats advertised as ready to go to find that the engine needs repairing maybe im being to picky and want to much for my money after all thousands of hard earned pounds grow on trees

We spent 2 years hunting for our first boat, visiting brokerages almost on a weekly basis. Perhaps the missus is too picky but she wouldn't cross the threshold on some boats because of the smell. We could tell you which brokerages we think are good and which are hopeless (but won't for obvious reasons) but very few try to sell the boat. Definitely agree with the 10 year old photo comment...seen loads of these.

 

For example, if you go to buy a second hand car from a dealer or non franchised garage, you will find the car has been cleaned out, has been washed regularly (and in some cases polished). In other words it looks presentable. Go to some brokerages and you will find boats full of leaves, rotting plants in tatty pots, torn cratch covers which may as well be taken off as they won't keep the rain out and frayed ropes. All they need is a little TLC...

 

We took good friends out in Frogmoore yesterday. They last saw her when she was for sale months ago when the paintwork looked dull but we have cleaned and polished her, applied a bit of hammerite on the gunwhales and they thought it was a different boat. Perhaps I should rent out the missus as the canal's version of "House Doctor" ? She wields a pretty mean duster and bottle of industrial strength Flash when we are on board.....

[BlueStringPudding]

Good idea! And a fair point. When we were boat hunting 2 years ago we saw many boats that hadn't had so much as a spring clean. More fool the owners, I say.

 

The boat we eventually bought, we negotitated nearly ten grand off the asking price predominantly because of the state it had been left in - the majority of the problems we could see through and knew it'd just take a bit of elbow grease and some patientce to fix. Things like cat hair all over most surfaces and upholstery (and welded ot the inside of the oven - took a whole can of Mister Muscle to dislodge that!); grease all over the cooker, oven and grill; dirty windows; floor that needed serious mopping; a toilet seat that if you lifted, you regretted; etc etc.

 

And why did we manage to shave off the best part of £10k from the asking price? Because the boat had been on sale for fours months, had 41 viewings and no offers put in. If they'd cleaned it up a bit, just maybe they'd have sold it sooner at nearer their original asking price, and would not have been so desparate to grab our offer.

 

Good for us, though.

Edited July 31, 2009 by BlueStringPudding

[carlt]

Things like cat hair all over most surfaces and upholstery (and welded ot the inside of the overn - took a whole can of Mister Muscle to dislodge that!); grease all over the cooker, oven and grill; dirty windows; floor that needed serious mopping; a toilet seat that if you lifted, you regretted; etc etc.

Did you manage to sell the mattress, for medical research?

[BlueStringPudding]

Did you manage to sell the mattress, for medical research?

 

We sold it to North Korea for biological warfare.

[barge sara]

For example, if you go to buy a second hand car from a dealer or non franchised garage, you will find the car has been cleaned out, has been washed regularly (and in some cases polished). In other words it looks presentable. Go to some brokerages and you will find boats full of leaves, rotting plants in tatty pots, torn cratch covers which may as well be taken off as they won't keep the rain out and frayed ropes. All they need is a little TLC...

 

Perhaps the difference is that the used car dealer actually owns his stock, wheras the boats on brokerage usually still belong to the previous owners, who still bear the responsibility for maintaining them and sadly, often don't.

 

A more reasonable comparison would be with an estate agent and when did you last see one of them come round with the hoover and the windolene?

 

We've sold two boats through brokers; on both occasions it was made clear that it was up to us to keep the boat presentable and we visited regularly to keep it clean and polished.

 

So maybe its the owners / sellers who are to blame for the state of the boats for sale, not the brokers......

 

John

MV Sara.

[BlueStringPudding]

So maybe its the owners / sellers who are to blame for the state of the boats for sale, not the brokers......

 

I think it's the owners/sellers who are responsible.

[Jim Batty]

We spent 2 years hunting for our first boat, visiting brokerages almost on a weekly basis. Perhaps the missus is too picky but she wouldn't cross the threshold on some boats because of the smell. We could tell you which brokerages we think are good and which are hopeless (but won't for obvious reasons) but very few try to sell the boat.

 

After 3 years looking we feel we are close to securing our 'dream' secondhand narrowboat ... fingers crossed. But what a journey it has been so far and what a collection of old tubs we have found ourselves staring down into from marina pontoons and obscure towpath.

 

As has be said, many boats are way overpriced. I think most sellers are simply 'trying it on' — especially up until the end of last season. Some people DO buy on a whim and in complete ignorance of what they are buying. Frankly, some people with more money than time can afford to do this. So there's no harm in trying. But, given the present financial climate and the number of boats for sale, you can afford to be bullish and offer anywhere between 15% - 25% below asking price with a fair chance of having it accepted. Boats initially put up for sale at £50K are selling for below £40K, boats up for £38K are selling for £30K - £32K.

 

In our experience many boats for sale haven't been used in a year or two, sometimes longer. They sit collecting rust and dust and damp and represent former pleasures or dreams or pastimes and are now abandoned in all but name. People tire of things, or circumstances change, and they want to move on. To many of these people I think a broker is quite appealing because it offers a free mooring and it gives a feeling that they are breaking free of old ties. But that doesn't stop the boat sitting at the brokers for a year or more if it is overpriced. We've seen a number of boats at fairly high profile marinas that have been for sale for over a year. Then £10K or £12K is knocked off the price (all at once, or in two or three steps over a number of months) and then they sell.

 

Another problem is the number of poor, amateur fit-outs to be found. So many people seem to have 'had a go' (or partially had a go, then given up) and ended up with rough plywood doors and bulkheads and bed structures riddled with little sabre-saw-cutout doors wilting on hinges without the full complement of screws, 1 1/2 foot wide corridors, dangling wires, bare plastic piping, mis-joined galley cabinets and gaps at the ends of countertops and so on. This is all fine and functional. But we often sensed (when we met with owners) that they didn't or couldn't really distinguish between this sort of work and good quality fit-out work, and that they expected to get the same kind of money for their boat as one of similar age and length but much better quality fit-out. I guess its human nature to worship things we are familiar with and spent a lot of time pursuing.

 

Like a number of people here have commented, what has really been a surprise is how many sellers don't seem to have a clue about PRESENTING a boat for sale. I'd say that in over a third of the boats we've looked at the owners hadn't attempted basic things like cleaning the loo floor, or putting things in the cupboards rather than leaving them in disarray over counter tops, or removing black bin liners of stuff from the trad stern passage and things like that. (These on boats at brokers 'cleared for sale'. I think this says almost as much about individual brokers as it does about sellers.)

 

Let alone perhaps cleaning up an oily carpet, nailing up a drooping ceiling panel or removing a broken glass shelf. We went to see an empty steel Caribbean cruiser a few years back and found the lounge sofa in unmade bed mode, thickly matted dog hair everywhere and black rotting meat in the fridge! Yeeach.

 

So I really sympathise with the Original Poster. I guess the message is that there are some good boats out there, that it pays to get as much information and photos as possible before going out to see them — which can be pretty challenging — and that if you see something you like you should express real serious interest and make what YOU think is a reasonable offer.