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I got hurt


jactomtroub

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I was injured (required hospital treatment stitches & antibiotics) when a hire boat crew fully opened top paddles causing my 45' deep draughted boat to shoot forward and smash into the cill. My crew were closing the bottom gates (which also crashed shut) and did not see them even arrive at the paddles. The top paddles are not visable from the boat as the lock was too deep. We all shouted at them to stop but they had no idea what to do it did not help that they could not speak english.

They had absolutely no idea what they did was in any way dangerous. My crew who are experienced were upset they did not realise what the hire boat crew were going to do. My boat was not damaged although my belongings were somewhat scattered. It was just my hand that was cut as I was thrown forward grabbed hold of what I could to stop falling unfortunately it was the hatch and the thing slammed shut onto my hand - ouch!

I am really posting just to highlight how quickly even with an experienced crew things can go wrong. We needed eyes in our backsides. We are usually so very carefull as we know our boat gets caught in the undertow and watch it very carefully.

Should I write to the hire company as this crew obviously had not had correct instruction in working locks and the fact you just don't go filling a lock without asking? I would have thought the hire company has a duty of care to ensure thier hirers understand this.

Jacqui

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I was injured (required hospital treatment stitches & antibiotics) when a hire boat crew fully opened top paddles causing my 45' deep draughted boat to shoot forward and smash into the cill. My crew were closing the bottom gates (which also crashed shut) and did not see them even arrive at the paddles. The top paddles are not visable from the boat as the lock was too deep. We all shouted at them to stop but they had no idea what to do it did not help that they could not speak english.

They had absolutely no idea what they did was in any way dangerous. My crew who are experienced were upset they did not realise what the hire boat crew were going to do. My boat was not damaged although my belongings were somewhat scattered. It was just my hand that was cut as I was thrown forward grabbed hold of what I could to stop falling unfortunately it was the hatch and the thing slammed shut onto my hand - ouch!

I am really posting just to highlight how quickly even with an experienced crew things can go wrong. We needed eyes in our backsides. We are usually so very carefull as we know our boat gets caught in the undertow and watch it very carefully.

Should I write to the hire company as this crew obviously had not had correct instruction in working locks and the fact you just don't go filling a lock without asking? I would have thought the hire company has a duty of care to ensure thier hirers understand this.

Jacqui

 

YES! Phone them up immediately!

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We had a similar experience on the southern oxford a couple of years ago...a boat had just left the lock and as they had the gates open we entered so that herself could climb the ladder to shut gates etc..unfortunately they had crew on both bottom gates and the top paddles.....and as soon as the stern had cleared the gates they were slammed shut and the paddles pulled right up.....we are only 50' with a vintage engine so by the time I could select reverse and open it up we had a nice chat with the cill despite much yelling......They couldnt see what they had done wrong and thought they were helping........amazingly nothing was broken but it wasnt a pleasant experience at all.......We are now even more wary with other people around locks and make sure someone is on the bank even if its a bit tricky to land them....I have also had some moments with gate paddles on deep locks as well but thats for another thread!

 

Glad it wasnt more serious

 

Gareth

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Concur with the above.

 

I know you shouldn't step the gates but I was last year on the Llan-g when a helpful chap from the USA opened the opposite gate.

 

I very politely explained the perils of 'helping' other boats through.

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We had something similar happen to us a couple of years ago as we were coming up through Brighouse basin. I was on the boat, and R.J. was on lock duty. As I left the lock from the river, I could see that the gates to the next one were open, so I cruised in to wait for him whilst he remained to shut the gates on the previous lock, which is only about 100 yards away.

 

Without any warning, a crew from another boat above the lock suddenly closed the gates behind me and then proceeded to fully open the paddles, despite my yelling at them to stop. We were on Devon, hired from Shire Cruisers - a tiddly little 32' boat in a BIG lock. I can't tell you how scary it was! I was getting tossed around and bashed from side to side, and I could hear things crashing around below deck.

 

I was shaking when I finally exited the lock - and what did I find? A boat full of inexperienced hirers? No - a liveaboard family in a hurry who ought to have known better, and seemed to think that because it was a hire boat, they could do as they pleased.

 

Although we don't own our own boat, we hire at least once a year and have done for several years, and like to think that we know what we're doing, and are pretty clued up about how to behave. Our rule has always been that whoever is steering the boat is in full charge, and no paddles are opened until they give the signal that they are ready.

 

I don't mind "helpers" at locks, but only the ones who know what they are doing!

 

Janet

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Our rule has always been that whoever is steering the boat is in full charge, and no paddles are opened until they give the signal that they are ready.

If that were made a hard and fast rule, always obeyed, I think it would help.

 

Not sure what the rule would be when sharing locks though - we regularly find ourselves sharing with a similar sized boat where we would whip most of the paddles up quite smartly if on our own, but they seem not to want to open some at all.

 

I don't think it's a hirer thing - hire and non hire boat crews are fairly evenly matched in their abilities to deliver the unexpected. At least "newbie" hirers can be educated. Been there, done that, know everything "experts" are often to blinkered to see that what they are doing might not be appropriate where they are doing it, (in my experience....).

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Not sure what the rule would be when sharing locks though - we regularly find ourselves sharing with a similar sized boat where we would whip most of the paddles up quite smartly if on our own, but they seem not to want to open some at all.

 

We've come across the same problem, and always err on the side of caution rather than forcing someone to adapt to our method. We know our boats (having hired the same ones several times), and know how to handle them, but we're always aware that there are others who may be new to it or slightly more cautious, and really, the canal isn't a place to be if you're in a hurry....

 

It does get a bit frustrating at times, but we were new at it once, and would have been quite put off by someone rushing us through a lock, so we try to remember that when we're sharing with someone who isn't quite as eager as us to get ahead and let them go at a pace they find comfortable.

 

However, that may change next year when we have the boat for a whole month to do the Thames Ring - woe betide anyone who messes with our schedule!

 

Janet

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We had a similar experience some years ago when a bloke off a hire boat picked my daughters windlass up, and despite her protests, opened a paddle and nearly turned our then little NB over. I told him he was a very silly man, or words to that effect. I have eyes like a toilet rodent when doing locks after meeting that loser.

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Something similar happened to us as we entered 'Deep Lock' on the Bridgewater - no sooner had my partner shut the back gates, two old duffers in cloth caps opened the gate sluices sending tonnes of water crashing down. After a polite yell they scowled at me and closed the paddles and walked off back to their boat!

 

Forgive me for thinking they were inexperienced hire boaters but, like other responses on this thread, they were experienced boaters thinking they could hurry things along a bit - Their foolish action put my family and property in danger and for that I vented my spleen on the group of old farts that were muttering as we cruised past!

 

My children, when they're scampering around locks waiting for our turn, politely ask iother boaters f help is needed and wait for the thumbs up from skippers to proceed. As skippers we would expect other boaters to do the same!

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Our rule has always been that whoever is steering the boat is in full charge, and no paddles are opened until they give the signal that they are ready.

 

Janet

 

That is the rule I and my crew follow if working a strange boat through. Tawny Owl's paddle drill is "whip 'em up and let the steerer manage" but that isn't fair with someone else's boat.

 

I may even check with the steerer instead of following their crew if I'm not sure.

 

Richard

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Going down the Wigan flight on Saturday my wife also experienced an over enthusiastic hire crew. I had just exited the lock and the crew behind, which were on two boats and seemed to be 6 per boat, were opening the top paddles before she had finished dropping the bottom paddles and shutting the gates. At least our boat had already left the lock!

 

However the most exciting lock I had on the same flight was my own fault. My wife had gone ahead to set the next lock and there was a lockie already there. He instructed her to open the bottom paddles as the pound below was low.

 

One top gate was already open so I continued cruising towards the lock and as I entered the lock the lockie waved for me to slow down as the bottom paddles were drawn. I was not expecting the "turbo" effect as the boat entered the lock and was effectively sucked forwards by the pull from the water exiting through the bottom paddles. I needed to give it significant reverse revs to bring the boat to a stop before hitting the bottom gates. This turbulence caused the gate I had just entered to slam shut behind me and the boat seemed to drop almost a foot instantly. No damage done though. Just a lesson learned: Not a good idea to enter a lock if the bottom paddles are up!!

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I am horrified but not surprised to hear this story. There seem to be more and more people out there who are either plain ignorant and don't understand the potentials of their actions or even worse, don't care.

 

This afternoon my partner witnessed a crew attempting to empty a broad lock with both top gates open. When stopped they explained that they had only been doing boating for 2 days. I dread to think what might have happened if not stopped.

 

Hope you hand heals up fast. It might even be worth trying to claim on the hire companies insurance.

D

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Our rule has always been that whoever is steering the boat is in full charge, and no paddles are opened until they give the signal that they are ready.

 

 

Janet

 

That is the way we work as well but I have lost count of the number of times I have been at a lock (with our boat in the queue somewhere) and I have had my windlass ready to put on the paddle and am waiting for a signal from the skipper on the boat(s) in the lock. I try to attract his (their) attention to ask if they are ready and whether they want a quarter, half or full paddle - isn't sign language wonderful? - but they seem to be looking everywhere but where the paddles are. When this happens I stand back till their own crew arrives on the scene (from the previous lock or the other end of the lock) and help if they want me to. I am ashamed to admit that once in my early days of boating some 25 years ago I whapped the paddles up for another boat and when I saw the result, it taught me never to do that again.

 

Haggis

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Further to my previos post, I don't usually blame the hirers, but the poor instructions that they are given.

 

Not quite on this track, but I'll quote an incident which happened to us two weekends ago on the Rufford branch of the Leeds/Liverppol canal. As my wife was in the top lock steering our narrowboat while I manned the paddles. I could see a young boy and his father straddling the lock gates of the next lock (No 2) some 70 metres 'down stream'.

 

This lock is adjacent to the Ship Inn and regularly attracts customers from the pub to watch the activities of boaters. On this occasion, the customers were a family from a local sea port that now boasts a new link allowing boaters to navigate into the city centre. They were clearly the worse for having too much to drink and were quite indifferent to the fact that their 5 year old son and his dad, were sitting astride the wooden lock gates that were about to be flooded with water from our emptying lock.

 

As I shouted warning messages as to what was about to happen, I simply received blank looks of

apathy from the two dare devils. When the surge of water began to wet their trousers only then did they climb up from the gates. Having opened the lock gate furtherst away from the numbsculls in order to keep a safe distance from our boat to this family, the youngster then proceeded to dangle himself from the lock paddle drive shaft while I attempted to empty the lock.

 

As it is not recommended to challenge the likes of these people directly, I closed the paddle on my side of the lock chamber in order to minimise the effect of the water turbulance had the boy fallen into the lock. This action only served to confuse the family as they still did'nt recognise the danger their son was in!

 

After the father suggested that his son refrain from hanging from the shaft, the boy then came over to the lock ladder and feigned the action of diving into the water from the ladder, hanging on by his arms and swinging his legs in the air.

 

The total experience was one of complete astonishment to both of us and another onlooker. We came away from that lock in disbelief that a family could allow their young son to endanger himself in such a manner.

 

Is it any wonder that there are horror stories chronicled about children and adults suffering disabling injuries while playing around locks or swing bridges.

 

The amazing thing here was that the family could see no harm or danger in their child's stupidity! But then again, I don't think they had a single brain cell amongst them :lol:

Edited by Doorman
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Having been wound on by a chap on Heartbreak many years back we operate a system which, unfortunately seems to get some people backs up but means we are safe.

 

Basically the wife guards the paddles and won't allow them to be wound until we want them wound. If she has to shut a bottom gate and someone appears by the top paddles she goes and tells them not to wind until she says so. Often this causes boaters - especially privates to take umbridge and they stomp off. If she can she gets to the paddles before the approaching crew and blocks them from getting near them while chatting away. She than winds very slowly. (God knows how - I have not the strength to do it half that slow.) All the time she watches me in the lock and will tell people I control what she is doing. (Thumbs up means wind - stop signal means stop winding. The only problem with this is if the other crew, passers by or any stray thing wants to chat she will stop winding and chat. To get round this I have a referees whistle to blow to get her attention.

 

The only problem we encounter is some BW temp lockys who are obviously trained (?) to ignore the punters and slap paddles half up or more as quick as possible. It seems that on some like them the old charm offensive does not work. Far from it the wife has been warned by one clown a couple of years back for daring to suggest to the volenteer that he was rather stupid to slap a paddle straight up in a lock that can get turbulent if you do that. Luckily most of the temps are more sensible and wander off to let the weird woman do her own thing.

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This happened at the first set of locks we had ever been in as first time boaters. We had family with us (also inexperienced) and they started to open up the forward paddles before I had even got the gates halfway closed. The gates were ripped out of my hands and the boat took a terrible lurch forward and at the same time it looked like a tidal wave of water came over the gates narrowly missing washing my hubs overboard. The air turned blue and hubs had to really put the point across. Whoever is steering the boat is in charge and please concentrate on him at all times, this is not a holiday boat or something that we mess about in - THIS IS OUR HOME!!! :lol:

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Had this a few times with excited boaters eager to get to their next mooring. A crew of very excited young people were trying to be helpful with the locks at the hatton flight year before last, but they were a bit enthusiatic for some.

 

However hiring out boats to people who may have language issues understanding safety rules is not the most clever thing to do really. I would have at least ensured they understood the rules and could read or at least speak well enough to be given instruction. It could have been a lot worse.

 

No-one wants to deny anyone trying boating, so there needs to be better measures in place to protect people.

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Having been wound on by a chap on Heartbreak many years back we operate a system which, unfortunately seems to get some people backs up but means we are safe.

 

Basically the wife guards the paddles and won't allow them to be wound until we want them wound. If she has to shut a bottom gate and someone appears by the top paddles she goes and tells them not to wind until she says so. Often this causes boaters - especially privates to take umbridge and they stomp off. If she can she gets to the paddles before the approaching crew and blocks them from getting near them while chatting away. She than winds very slowly. (God knows how - I have not the strength to do it half that slow.) All the time she watches me in the lock and will tell people I control what she is doing. (Thumbs up means wind - stop signal means stop winding. The only problem with this is if the other crew, passers by or any stray thing wants to chat she will stop winding and chat. To get round this I have a referees whistle to blow to get her attention.

 

Ah, a subject upon which the majority seem to agree with this grumpy old sod!

 

Drawing paddles on another boat is a complete no-no, and I habitually ask "helpful" people not to do so (and if necessary tell them).

 

There are many things that those who wish to help the other boat can do (opening and closing gates, closing paddles after use), and just one (opening the paddles whilst there is a boat in the lock) that they shouldn't.

 

It would be an unfair generalisation to suggest that all those who try to help are doing it just to get you out of the way faster, with no regard for the damage that they might cause, but a fair number are. If I am offering assistance, there is clearly an element of benefit for me in the lock operating faster, but that can never be at the expense of the boat in the lock having complete control.

 

So, to how it works in practice....

  • If, as we approach the lock, or enter it, you are poised by the opposite end paddles, or you make a move towards them, we will pause, afoul of the entrance gate and ask you to leave the paddles to us.
  • If you step back, we will enter the lock, close up, and we will explain the problems that we have had in the past, and if you still wish to help, you are welcome, but only to the extent that the steerer indicates.
  • If you protest that you are going to help, or inform us that it isn't up to us, and that you know what you are doing, and have been operating locks for X minutes/weeks/years and how dare I spoil the kids' fun, we will remain afoul of the gate and you will be TOLD that nobody is going anywhere until such time as you leave the paddles alone. The mere fact that you can't grasp that this is our choice to make
  • If, as we approach, you wait back, and make no approach to the lock until our lock man/woman approaches, and ask how we like the paddles worked, your assistance will be welcomed.

If you are entering a lock, and I am there prepared to offer assistance. I will;

  • In the first instance make myself available at the entrance gate, ready to open or close it for you as required.
  • If there is nothing to do at the entrance gate, I will be towards the exit end, well back from the gate, with my windlass either sat in the back of my trousers, or resting on a lovely wooden bollard.
  • I will ask if you want my assistance drawing paddles, and if so how you want them operated.
  • If you say no, I will accept your decision without the slightest problem, and will ensure that you know that I take no offence at being declined.

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We had a scary moment last year when the crew of the boat we were sharing locks with, opened the top paddles completely, and the badly leaking gates and turbulence meant our bow filled with water. Really filled with water!

 

I was shouting at Kev to move backwards but he couldn't hear me over the noise of the water, the engine and because he was chatting to the driver of the other boat! :lol: The other boat was about 20 feet shorter than ours and so their bow was at a safe distance from the water pouring in.

 

The water came above the bottom of the door and was filling the bow quicker than it could drain out. Perhaps foolishly, I leapt off the bank and into the bow and started bailing out! The water had flushed out some autumn leaves that had been in the bow and these had started to block the water outlets, which was reducing the speed the bow was draining even more!

 

Eventually Kev heard me, pulled the boat back and we let the other boaters go on while we moored up to assess the damage. Fortunately only a little water had seeped in under the door and it was easily mopped up with a towel.

 

We now always lock the front door when going through locks (as it swings open easily) but we keep a key on our personages just in case we need to get in or out of it, and will think very carefully about sharing a lock with a much shorter boat than ours. I know exactly what went wrong, but often other crews and other boaters will do whatever they want, not what's safest, so although we can be vigilant we can't guarrantee we won't find ourselves in that position again. And certainly we've found that sometimes the more mature boaters don't always want to take advice or instruction from younger ones - irrelevant of whose boat is the most vulnerable in a situation.

 

Sometimes it's safer to look like a grumpy sod and let a boat go down a flight of locks ahead, and then go ourselves, rather than share and put safety at risk.

Edited by BlueStringPudding
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I always offer assistance if I am in a position to do so. Usually, I will put my windlass on the gear and call to the helmsman, recieving a thumbs up I begin to draw the paddle stopping about halfway. If I get no signal from the steerer, (usually 'cos they don't realise I am waiting for it) then the paddle remains closed. I have many times had the crew of the boat in the lock whip paddles fully open and be bemused as to why I don't do the same, I have never been asked (told!) to proceed more slowly. The trick is I suspect to be aware of the unwritten rules for such occasions, rule 1, the steerer is in charge.

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Why are these quick paddle openers never around when I need them! Most are too busy helping their husbands tie up the boat (come on, these boats ain't big enough to need two crew!), or too busy yapping to someone else, leaving me to handle a full sized boat and the lock!

 

Even when they do help, I usually have to tell them several times to lift all the paddles straight up. Apart from odd locks where there are only large gate paddles I've never had a problem with opening all paddles up in one - even when I'm single handed (including heartbreak hill with a 50ft boat holding in the back of the lock (with crew that time!)).

 

I did have someone (a teenage girl lock wheeling) try to turn a narrow lock on me even as I approached the bottom gates with both bottom paddles still up! She was so shocked as I entered the lock (I had to push the gates open with the boat) that she didn't put the paddle back up when I asked her to!

 

BTW - I usually check with the steering of any boat I'm helping with the paddles, and put them up slowly and smoothly as most people don't seem to understand the backwards initial rush of water.

 

rule 1, the steerer is in charge.

 

Actually the lock crew are responsable for the safety of the boat - most people forget this and go wondering off, or chatting to other people without watching what is happening with the boat. A regular crew should be able to understand the ability of the person driving to know how much paddle is required.

 

Mike

Edited by mykaskin
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I always offer assistance if I am in a position to do so. Usually, I will put my windlass on the gear and call to the helmsman, recieving a thumbs up I begin to draw the paddle stopping about halfway. If I get no signal from the steerer, (usually 'cos they don't realise I am waiting for it) then the paddle remains closed. I have many times had the crew of the boat in the lock whip paddles fully open and be bemused as to why I don't do the same, I have never been asked (told!) to proceed more slowly. The trick is I suspect to be aware of the unwritten rules for such occasions, rule 1, the steerer is in charge.

 

I think the issue here is that whilst you do actually defer to the steerer, you need to take into account;

  • The steerer hasn't met you before.
  • The steerer has met people who whip up paddles without asking before.
  • By placing your windlass on the spindle, your actions are indistinguishable from a "whip em up" merchant.
  • In such a scenario, if the steerer waits to see what happens next, it may be too late to prevent the paddles being whipped up.

The only "safe" assumption the steerer can make is that you might whip the paddles up.

 

That is why I set a great deal of importance in waiting away from the paddles, so that the steerer is re-assured that a situation he doesn't like is not going to develop before he has chance to prevent it.

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