Following a recent conversation with another forum member about BMC engines, a question has arisen about the actual age of marinised engines rather than the marinisation date.

 

Many "new" marinised engines are actually re-manufactured from much older units, but it is still possible to date the original manufacture date if the mariniser has left the original engine number in place. I have always assumed that the engine in my boat was new when it was marinised in 1981, something borne out by the fact that the bores were still original size (albeit a bit worn) when it was stripped for re-building three years ago, but now I am beginning to wonder.

 

There are several sites on the internet giving dating information for petrol engines used in cars, and I have been advised that there is also a data base of Diesel engine numbers, but I have been unable to find one As there are no Leyland agents around any more to ask, I was wondering whether anyone can point me in the right direction, or even better has a copy of the data base.

 

Edited to add:- In case anyone does have the information, my engine number is:- 15P/785A/D4659

Edited June 21, 200917 yr by David Schweizer

David,

 

As you allude to that number on your engine does not seem to "pattern match" any of the web published sources about serial numbers of "B series" engines.

 

However there is the occasional reference that leads me to believe it may have been the kind of serial numbering used on a "Thorneycroft 90", which is a BMC 1500 base engine. (The '90' being it's capacity in cubic inches, apparently).

 

My strong suspicion, unless you have evidence to the contrary, is that yours may have been delivered as a Thornycroft unit from new.

 

It might well be worth asking AMC if they recognise that engine number, I would have thought.

 

EDIT:

 

Check out this link for a 1979 engine for sale, (albeit not in English!)

 

Link

 

Note

 

Regnr: 15P/785A/D

 

Or the engine number referred to in first post here.....

 

Another link

 

It's possible those are BMC engine numbers, but it feels like it's Thornycroft who has numbered these engines to me....

Edited June 21, 200917 yr by alan_fincher

I suppose it could have been a Thorneycroft. The sales details definitely says BMC 1.5 Marinised by High Power Marine, but the workshop manual which Balliol gave me to copy was for a Thornecroft, but thare are several differences between the illustartions and my Engine. Interestingly the spare engine Balliol had in the shed was a Thornecroft so maybe it was a Thorneycroft engine.. The engine is bright blue now, but the original colur was metalic light green, do you know what colour Thorneycroft painted their engines?

 

I am still of the view that the engine was new when fitted, the boat was not built for the Braunston Boats hire fleet (although it ended up in it) but for a private Boating Club, the Tendimous Society, which I am informed was a staff association of the now defunct Kayser Shipping Company. I cannot imagine Balliol fitting a re-manufactured engine into a brand new boat costing £20,000 in 1982.

Yes,

 

I think I'm persuaded it was probably new, but I'm not yet convinced the engine number is a BMC one.

 

Obviously we need someone with firmer knowledge of the various ways in which BMC or Thornycroft might have identified things. I still wonder if that number might mean something to AMC.

 

I have no idea what colour a Thornycroft 90 might have been when new, (most old documents are in B&W !).

 

One thing I did come across, (not relevant here, I think), is that a unit could even have been a BMC "Gold Seal" remanufactured engine, before somebody marinised it. A bit of a minefield, the whole area, I suspect.....

 

Edited: To correct spelling to Thornycroft from Thorneycroft, (although 50% of people posting on the web seem to have made the same mistake as me!).

Edited June 21, 200917 yr by alan_fincher

snipped

, before somebody marinised it. A bit of a minefield, the whole area, I suspect.....

 

If it had been a Gold Seal reconditioned engine then it would have been painted gold not blue or green. All Gold Seal engines that I ever dealt with were painted gold AFAIR.

Roger

Edited June 21, 200917 yr by Albion

David

The online Calcutt BMC manual gives engine numbers for 1.8 diesel which have a similar form except 18 is substituted for 15. 18P... appears to be the oldest version listed but how old, is not noted. I am convinced that these are the original BMC numbers (or Turkish BMC in my case). Numbers are given for the 1800 as there was a major design change at some point.

Arthur

Our BMC 1.5 doesn't seem to have a number like that, its longer and has more zeros in it.

 

Haven't got the details to hand but its got the heavier flywheel on it and a bell housing that has the rear engine legs on it. We think marination came rather late in its life.

David

The online Calcutt BMC manual gives engine numbers for 1.8 diesel which have a similar form except 18 is substituted for 15. 18P... appears to be the oldest version listed but how old, is not noted. I am convinced that these are the original BMC numbers (or Turkish BMC in my case). Numbers are given for the 1800 as there was a major design change at some point.

Arthur

Arthur,

 

You are indeed correct! - I couldn't find this, despite looking.

 

Clearly a BMC numbering series then, so the Thornycroft thing was my red herring.

 

My repair manual for the 1.8 diesel seems to imply that engine numbers could have started with at least 18B, 18P or 18V. I can't reconcile that to descriptions elsewhere which say 18V would signify a "vertical" engine (rear wheel drive vehicle) and 18H a "horizontal" engine (transverse, front wheel drive) - perhaps that's only for petrol models ?

 

So I'm still confused, (but I'm easy to confuse).

 

Anyway it's all academic to me, as the engine number is missing from our 1.8 anyway.....

Hi,

 

My previous boat had a BMC 1.5, the boat was built in 1982 and the engine was marinised by J G Meakes, the core engine probably dated from the 1960's and had some 'Ricardo' modifications. It was originally painted green but seems to have been re-sprayed blue when marinised.

 

It served me well, and really these engines should be afforded 'Traditional' status.

 

Not sure what it was originally fitted into, but it used to run well, winter starting was a problem, but 60 secs on the heat plugs and a good battery overcame any reluctance.

 

Leo.

Hi,

 

My previous boat had a BMC 1.5, the boat was built in 1982 and the engine was marinised by J G Meakes, the core engine probably dated from the 1960's and had some 'Ricardo' modifications. It was originally painted green but seems to have been re-sprayed blue when marinised.

 

It served me well, and really these engines should be afforded 'Traditional' status.

 

Not sure what it was originally fitted into, but it used to run well, winter starting was a problem, but 60 secs on the heat plugs and a good battery overcame any reluctance.

 

Leo.

 

The only place I remember seeing a 1.5 diesel fitted was when I was a kid a mate's father bought a diesel Morris Oxford or Austin Cambridge. It was 0 to 60 in 'Send a postcard' and it was quite unusual to have a diesel car in those days. So unusual that he once forgot and put petrol in the tank.

BMC engines were always painted a darkish, sort of olive, green ex-factory.

Roger

The only place I remember seeing a 1.5 diesel fitted was when I was a kid a mate's father bought a diesel Morris Oxford or Austin Cambridge. It was 0 to 60 in 'Send a postcard'

Roger

 

Sounds like the Citroen 'Xantia' I had as company car a 1.9SD - I used to cheer if I over took a cyclist - it did have air con though!

 

Leo.

and 18H a "horizontal" engine

I'm only guessing here Alan about what the "H" means but BMC made 2 vans in the 60s/70s who's engines could possibly be called horizontal.

 

One was called a JU250 and had a "B" series engine canted over at around 45 degree's with the intention of keeping the front (and overall length) short and the floor relatively low to step into.

A very pretty JU250. http://www.pbase.com/rambo2415/image/84700901

The other was called an EA which was mainly used by the nationalised industries such as Gas and Post. I didn't have much dealings with these, but my hazy memory tells me they had a small BMC diesel mounted under the floor completely on its side.

A not so pretty EA(non were) http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C95193?pt=pf#

 

I think the later front wheel drive Leylands/Rovers, such as the Maestro, used a Perkins engine.

I think the later front wheel drive Leylands/Rovers, such as the Maestro, used a Perkins engine.

 

Yes, that's correct. Noisy and slow in naturally aspirated form but quicker in the turbo version.

Roger

BMC engine references :

 

 

http://www.mgcars.org.uk/mgccz/technic/codeseng.pdf

 

http://www.mgcars.org.uk/news/news498.html

 

 

and some of the vans they were used in:

 

http://www.aronline.co.uk/index.htm?lcvpurposef.htm

According to a blog post I found just now it is a "Thornycroft 90 (Leyland 15P/785A/D25 no xxxx