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Alternator Paralleler Circuit


chris w

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Read post #423 again. The circuit above has NO capacitors and a single lamp.

 

Also

  • Needs no soldering (yes, read the text!)
  • Needs no dismantling of the alternator
  • Is capable of paralleling batteries for starting.

cheers,

Pete.

I agree that my version needs soldering and the removal of the regulator. But Smelly doesn't seem phased by these operations based on his dialogue.

 

My circuit also allows paralleling batteries for starting....................and, the other issue,........ it works.

 

Chris

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Why all the faffing around...

 

Speaking purely for myself Chris, it's because there's absolutely no way that I would dismantle or otherwise 'tinker with' an alternator (or regulator attached thereto). It works; leave it alone.

 

Pete's latest circuit is elegant in its simplicity - a worthy trait in any circuit - and if it doesn't work then we already know that the previous circuit (with the single cap to 'smooth' the W output) does work as intended. Well, it does when it's actually wired correctly :lol:

 

Cheers,

Tony :lol:

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Speaking purely for myself Chris, it's because there's absolutely no way that I would dismantle or otherwise 'tinker with' an alternator (or regulator attached thereto). It works; leave it alone.

 

Pete's latest circuit is elegant in its simplicity - a worthy trait in any circuit - and if it doesn't work then we already know that the previous circuit (with the single cap to 'smooth' the W output) does work as intended. Well, it does when it's actually wired correctly :lol:

 

Cheers,

Tony :lol:

If you rae not willing to "tinker", you shouldn't be playing around anyway with your electrical systems. A lead-acid battery is a deadly weapon in the wrong hands.

 

We know nothing yet as to whether Smelly's current circuits work or not. I predicted the cap would blow and indeed it did.

 

Chris

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Speaking purely for myself Chris, it's because there's absolutely no way that I would dismantle or otherwise 'tinker with' an alternator (or regulator attached thereto). It works; leave it alone.

 

Cheers,

Tony :lol:

Putting a cap on one phase of a three phase machine is "tinkering".

In frankly doubt very much indeed is the alternator will ever shut down and "freewheel" to the extent that the W output will vanish. The alternator regulator will always remain sufficiently conductive to hold D+ at 14V-ish regardless of battery voltage rising above this. The only possibility is that the voltage apparent through the warning lamp will fool the regulator. I hope this is what will happen but I've never tried it.

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If you rae not willing to "tinker", you shouldn't be playing around anyway with your electrical systems.

 

Please don't mis-quote me by using a partial quote, Chris.

 

My full statement was "there's absolutely no way that I would dismantle or otherwise 'tinker with' an alternator "

 

My guess, from reading your various arguments with Gibbo, is that my knowledge of practical electronics comfortably exceeds that of your own. That has no relevance to whether or not I wish to dismantle a working alternator.

 

Regards,

Tony :lol:

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Putting a cap on one phase of a three phase machine is "tinkering".

 

Yeah, okay, agreed - but it doesn't require any internal alternator modifications :lol:

 

In frankly doubt very much indeed is the alternator will ever shut down and "freewheel" to the extent that the W output will vanish.

 

It doesn't need to; it only needs to drop to a sufficiently low level that, coupled with the voltage drop through the (hot) lamp, it falls below the relay's holding voltage.

 

I've not tried it either, but it's a wonderfully elegant solution if it does work. The fail-safe is that if the lamp blows the relay will never latch on in the first place.

 

Regards,

Tony :lol:

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If you rae not willing to "tinker", you shouldn't be playing around anyway with your electrical systems. A lead-acid battery is a deadly weapon in the wrong hands.

If the circuits I posted are built exactly as shown, that is including the fuses, that's not a problem.

 

I don't recall seeing any fusing on your circuits...

 

 

We know nothing yet as to whether Smelly's current circuits work or not. I predicted the cap would blow and indeed it did.

The only thing you asserted was the W output could go up to 60V, which is patently untrue. By understanding the simple circuit diagram of any alternator, it's easy to see why.

 

Also your original circuit could not work without an external alternator controller, until I pointed out the problem with it.

 

cheers,

Pete.

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Oh gawd I've got to stick my head above the parapet.

 

I can't find an Ubuntu driver that'll run my scanner either although I've not looked very hard yet so posting the circuit diagram I've drawn up is a no goer at the minute.

 

The Sterling issue seemed transient as the controller ran into absorption mode when last I ran the engine so possibly human error. Possibly the second cap across the latch relay made the difference, I don't know. I was vexed by that time so switched it off before checking the voltage but that's for a different thread. It's sunny now so with the solar doing it's job it's going to take some forethought to run the batts down much to run the engine and getting home from work and tinkering is how I managed to wind folk up so I'm reluctant. I'd hoped to build some cabinet doors this weekend as well however...

 

I'm not committing to a cap blowing, it's as likely I was cack handed, however it is an absolute that whatever configuration I've got, with the cap across the contactor it works but without it it doesn't, although the latching relay closes. They're both powered from W. I've tried it 4 times now and am confident of that. It's counterpart might have blown, however I know nowt of why and the one across the contactor hasn't although it's got the latching relay coil load before it which could, to the layman I am, make a difference.

 

As to alternator mods, note that I bought the spare reg first, and I'm sure some will agree I'm daft enough to f**k it up, although I'm game for having a go. I might be persuaded to try the soldering route, however while the sun's shining I'm coming home to healthy batteries and to be quite frank, I've wound enough people up that I'm happy to leave you to it. It did, and still does, look like a fiddly job that I was reticent to get into, but having bought the stuff I would be willing to have a crack if need be.

 

Admittedly I adapted one alt for the Sterling; having asked a mechanic to do it and his having put 2.5A cable as opposed to 10 on, but desoldering is a step further than that. Oh, and when I did do the Sterling cabling filing a socket down to fit was a pain in the Harris and took twice as long as fitting the box so in the socket's absence I am reluctant to fritter that much time again.

 

One thing of note is that when the Sterling bulk phase ended the relays stayed closed, although I'm yet to measure voltages.

 

Can anyone point me to an online circuit diagram design type thang that I can use to post how it's done? I can show you then and I remain convinced that it's end user friendly.

 

I'll post further findings as they arise however one unavoidable truth is it's working, in part although the auto switch off hasn't yet.

 

Dan

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Hi Smelly,

 

I can help out some at the weekend, why not have a break til then and enjoy the summer weather? :lol:

 

cheers,

Pete.

 

Cheers Pete but being as it's working it just needs tidying up and measuring, unless the cut out doesn't work but again that's an observation job that just needs patience to let the voltage get high enough. Granted the Sterling got past bulk but that still might only be 14.4 so I need to dabble a bit now... and not stand on anything fragile :lol:

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Also your original circuit could not work without an external alternator controller......

cheers,

Pete.

Er............... that's because it was designed for MY boat that does have an alternator controller. I designed it for ME and published it because I thought others might be interested.

 

The other difference is that it works.

 

Chris

 

My guess, from reading your various arguments with Gibbo, is that my knowledge of practical electronics comfortably exceeds that of your own.

 

Regards,

Tony ;)

:lol::lol::lol: That's after a total of 12 posts from you. Once you're into long trousers, you can start to debate with the big boys, who've spent a lifetime in electronics. Till then, keep sucking your lolly. :lol:

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:lol::lol::lol: That's after a total of 12 posts from you. Once you're into long trousers, you can start to debate with the big boys, who've spent a lifetime in electronics. Till then, keep sucking your lolly. :lol:

Yeah, and don't mess with Chris w, he's got a lawyer and he's not afraid to use it! (or so he says....).

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:lol::lol::lol: That's after a total of 12 posts from you. Once you're into long trousers, you can start to debate with the big boys, who've spent a lifetime in electronics. Till then, keep sucking your lolly. ;)

Come on Chris! :lol:

 

Remind us exactly why the W output from a connected alternator CAN NOT go up to 60V, despite all your 'big boy' mathematical theories and 'lifetime in electronics' that insisted otherwise. ;)

 

cheers,

Pete.

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Come on Chris! :lol:

 

Remind us exactly why the W output from a connected alternator CAN NOT go up to 60V, despite all your 'big boy' mathematical theories and 'lifetime in electronics' that insisted otherwise. :lol:

 

cheers,

Pete.

If we listed all your errors and mistakes on here Pete, we'd have to start a special section just to keep it manageable (that would include your latest paralleler circuit of course, which STILL isn't working). You didn't earn the epithet of "Gibbo's glove-puppet" for nothing. :lol:

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Possibly the second cap across the latch relay made the difference, I don't know.

 

Hi Dan,

 

As I said before, from your description of what you did (connecting both sides of Pete's original schematic to W and adding the capacitor across the contactor) you effectively put the capacitor across both relays like this:

 

gallery_8291_464_9259.png

 

Can anyone point me to an online circuit diagram design type thang that I can use to post how it's done? I can show you then and I remain convinced that it's end user friendly.

 

I made the above with a free program - TinyCad. It's easy to get your head around - the above took me around 20 minutes including downloading the software.

 

Regards,

Tone :lol:

 

Edited to put in an image big enough to see!

Edited by tony@hdheaven.co.uk
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That's after a total of 12 posts from you.

 

Sorry Chris, I didn't realise that the quantity of posts I make on this forum had any relevance to my forty-odd years in professional electronics.

 

I shan't be making up for it by increasing my post tally, don't worry :lol:

 

Regards,

Tony

 

PS - HOW many volts did you "measure" on the W terminal of your alternator?

 

Yeah, and don't mess with Chris w, he's got a lawyer and he's not afraid to use it! (or so he says....).

 

Thanks for the advice - perhaps our respective lawyers could spend many happy hours exchanging threatening emails :lol:

 

T :lol:

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Hi Dan,

 

 

 

I made the above with a free program - TinyCad.

 

Apparently I am now dowloading tinycad... Your link went straight to the download, i hope it works in Linux...

 

No it doesn't! Off to the other lappy, curse that Bill Gates!

Edited by Smelly
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Sorry, Windoze only - but it's easy to use and free... you can't have everything :lol:

 

While I'm getting my head around it... Your schematic above is close, but the latching relay is before W on the +ve side, as opposed to after it. That's the only difference, I shal have a play...

 

edit...

 

tCad1-4.png

 

That's mine, it switches on but the voltage isn't getting high enough to see whether it switches off yet (got 14.2ish when the Sterling ran to absorption today). The relay on the right is the SW180.

Edited by Smelly
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