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Red and redder still!


fender

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The Granny Buttons blog has been discussing the issue of red diesel. One reason for this is that at this moment in time several organisations (not canal ones however) have met the governement to discuss the issue of red diesel.

 

There are several other things going on that are not generally publicised re the red diesel issue.

 

The cost of red diesel is going up all the time, farmers are now concerned the increases are affecting their livelehoods:

(http://business.edp24.co.uk/story.aspx?brand=BIZOnline&category=Business&tBrand=BIZOnline&tCategory=homepage&itemid=NOED16%2

0Jul%202005%2013%3A01%3A06%3A810)

 

The Chancelor has deferred a proposed increase in the taxing of red diesel. It is under review but is expected to be enforced this November. (http://www.fwi.co.uk/Articles/2005/07/08/88092/Fuel+duty+rise+postponed.htm)

 

Marinas everywhere are complaining about the increases and/or withdrawl of the derogation.

(http://icnorthwales.icnetwork.co.uk/news/regionalnews/tm_objectid=15803607&method=full&siteid=50142&headline=red-alert-on-bo

at-diesel-tax-threat--name_page.html)

 

and the view from canal companies in and around Brum.

(http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100localnews/tm_objectid=15808947&method=full&siteid=50002&headline=don-t-rock

-the-boat-with-fuel-rise--plea--name_page.html)

 

Here's a download link to a document from the British Marine Federation on the red diesel issue: (http://www.britishmarine.co.uk/DocImages/ForceDownload.asp?id=1297)

 

(last two links thanks to Granny Buttons Blog)

 

On the other side of the coin, there are people who are selling red diesel to motorists. There was a big operation a few days ago to clear up a gang involved in this sort of thing. Not one report could be found from the UK but here's one from Spain:

(http://www.noticias.info/asp/aspComunicados.asp?nid=88898&src=0)

 

and across the pond there are some states that have red diesel for agricultural use only. Motorists in the states are on the act too.

 

Iowa and Arizona are cracking down on cheats.

(http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050705/NEWS08/507050382/1001/NEWS) &

(http://www.azcentral.com/community/chandler/articles/0707gr-gasthievesZ6.html)

 

Me somehow thinks that the illegal activites of motorists will suffocate any attempts to defer increases or total withdrawal of the derogation in the UK.

Edited by fender
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I suspect you are right fender. One problem is that the government cites the fact that other coutries live without the derogation so why can't we. The difference is that generally, diesel is cheaper in other countries. In France for instance petrol is much the same price as here (last time I was there), but diesel was two-thirds the price. Add to that the fact that diesel from a marina will be significantly more than your local Asda, your diesel cost will more than double.

 

From what I have read, stopping the abuse of red diesel is one of the main reasons for dropping the derogation. So why don't they just go for the ones using it illegally? I suppose it is a bit like BW hiking up the continuous cruiser's licence fee in order to catch the bridge-hopper.

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I don't think the marinas will have much choice. Getting 5,000 litres delivered every so often is not going to get the same price as 20,000 litres delivered daily by a dedicated fleet.

 

If this comes in, expect to pay about £1.10 per litre at today's prices.

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I don't think the marinas will have much choice. Getting 5,000 litres delivered every so often is not going to get the same price as 20,000 litres delivered daily by a dedicated fleet.

 

If this comes in, expect to pay about £1.10 per litre at today's prices.

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Expect in the future we'll all stop at a canalside Tesco or Asda to fill up. So marinas will get a double blow.

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bit like having a petrol outboard!

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Yeah, a bit like that, except we'll have to make a lot of trips to the filling station in order to suffciently top our boats up. Thats why these canalside Tescos are going to be a great asset when the marinas can no longer compete on diesel prices.

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Yeah, a bit like that, except we'll have to make a lot of trips to the filling station in order to suffciently top our boats up. Thats why these canalside Tescos are going to be a great asset when the marinas can no longer compete on diesel prices.

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I don't think any of the large supermarkets adjacent to the towpath even know canals exist otherwise the would make sure there is easy access to the store. For example there has been a new complex (Tesco) built in Coventry adjacent to Coventry Cities new arena / stadium and the Coventry canal. Currently there is no easy access to the store.

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One or two boats a week against hundreds of cars, I think they know where their priorities lay.

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I take your considerations, but there are some superstores that now have filling stations close to the waterway. For example, I can imagine the superstore at Bulls Bridge becoming a magnet for boaters seeking out cheaper diesel. We wont expect them to provide pumps by the canal but at least we'll be able to get cheap diesel just by a short walk. Also filling stations (of any company) that are located by the canal will be a asset.

 

Of course, the arguement about the red diesel derogation withdrawal is that it will do so much damage to small businesses, hireboat companies and marinas. I'd much prefer to use a marina or hire base for my diesel but if economics force me to walk to the most convienet roadside filling station then I shall be doing so. And the nearer these are to the canal the better.

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How much diesel do you put in at a time?

 

When I top up, it is usually 100 - 150 litres. Don't think I'll be humping jerry cans backwards and forwards, even if it is a short walk.

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How much diesel do you put in at a time?

 

When I top up, it is usually 100 - 150 litres. Don't think I'll be humping jerry cans backwards and forwards,  even if it is a short walk.

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I'm with you on this one.

 

Jerrycan; 5 Gallons approximately 22.7 Litres

 

100 Litres = 100/22.7 = 4.4 trips.

 

Now I do not know the weight of diesel but water weighs 10lb a gallon therefore carrying 50lbs any distance forget it, I'll pay the extra. 4.gif

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I'm with you on this one.

 

Jerrycan;  5 Gallons approximately 22.7 Litres

 

100 Litres = 100/22.7 = 4.4 trips.

 

Now I do not know the weight of diesel but water weighs 10lb a gallon therefore carrying 50lbs any distance forget it, I'll pay the extra. 4.gif

27251[/snapback]

 

Not even with a trolley?

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Hi all. Question: If you can convert a diesel car to run on bio-diesel (mostly used cooking oil), can you do the same to boats? I intend using solar and wind power as much as I can for domestic use, but wonder if anyone knows of any successful engine conversions on narrowboats?

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Hi all. Question: If you can convert a diesel car to run on bio-diesel (mostly used cooking oil), can you do the same to boats? I intend using solar and wind power as much as I can for domestic use, but wonder if anyone knows of any successful engine conversions on narrowboats?

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Hi Carrie

 

Most modern diesel engines will run on "bio-diesel" without conversion. "bio-diesel" is only about 5% bio the rest is "ordinary". The problem at the moment would be obtaining supply.

 

The best way of checking your engine, would be to contact the manufacturer.

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Cheers bottle. Didn't know the 'bio' made up such a small part! As far as cars are concerned, I've read that in an unmodified diesel engine, veg oil is too viscous and its glycerine content causes problems, so perhaps that's why it would make up only 5% ? For converted engines, normal diesel is needed, only until the engine is hot, then the veg oil kicks in as the heat reduces the viscosity. But I've only read about this for cars and it may not be practical for boats. As far as supply is concerned, that would be a pain, except that some systems (such as the Elsbett tank) only use clean, unused veg oil, so that would mean collecting large bottles of it from the supermarket. If anyone has any experience of using the system, I'd love to hear from them.

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