Fitout "good ideas"

[Gary Peacock]

...............and an AGA !

 

.................. Ledgard showing off or just winding up John O ?

 

It's not an Aga it runs on diesel and is based on off the shelf central heating technology, two independent burners one for the cooker and another for the central heating.

 

100% house hold technology on a boat without the marine word and the costs that go with it! And it is boat approved!

 

 

But the really big advantage is no LPG!

Edited July 21, 2007 by Gary Peacock

[Gary Peacock]

...............and an AGA !

 

.................. Ledgard showing off or just winding up John O ?

 

 

Oh well we could send it on a promotional tour of the Rochdale!

 

Luxury on the Rochdale doesn't have to be the latest set of canal side apartments does it!

[smileypete]

Hi,

 

Something I'd have ideally on a custom fit out is a 'plumbed in' vacuum system, maybe using 40mm push fit waste pipe with swept bends/tees.

 

Might be very handy to have while completing the fit out too.

 

cheers,

Pete.

[ChrisPy]

Hi,

 

Something I'd have ideally on a custom fit out is a 'plumbed in' vacuum system, maybe using 40mm push fit waste pipe with swept bends/tees.

 

Might be very handy to have while completing the fit out too.

 

cheers,

Pete.

nice idea, but you'd be forever removing clogged up offcuts, bits of foam insulation, plastic packing etc. from the suction points or filters.

 

During fit-out I found it easier to use a broom and only resort to the vac when I'm left with a dusty residue.

 

I keep telling myself I won't be making any more mess, but there's always another job that creates sawdust, innit?

[smileypete]

nice idea, but you'd be forever removing clogged up offcuts, bits of foam insulation, plastic packing etc. from the suction points or filters.

 

During fit-out I found it easier to use a broom and only resort to the vac when I'm left with a dusty residue.

 

I keep telling myself I won't be making any more mess, but there's always another job that creates sawdust, innit?

 

Very well, people who regularly hoover up big chunks of insulation etc will have to resort to the big bore vac.

 

Do you have any more fit out ideas for your WB Chris?

 

cheers,

Pete.

[ChrisPy]

Do you have any more fit out ideas for your WB Chris?

I think I've covered most of my smart-ass ideas in my build blog - most of them seem to work out - so far

[robpw]

How elaborate do you want your electrics?

 

Keep a good schematic of electrics and mark each cable well

at various point along the length.

 

Make your cable runs twice the size that you first thought of

and leave one cable spare to act a draw string. Include

access points in each cabin.

 

Keep mains and battery cable well apart and clearly marked.

 

Think carefully about auto and manual switching of split charge system

and 240ac hookup.

 

Provide a ring main, just as important as on dry land!

 

Fit suitable Residual Current Device/s.

 

Read up specs on available inverters. You don't really want those

cheaper square waves if your fond of digital devices like Sat tv

and computer screens. Pure sine is best but of course with every

degree of arc comes a greater cost.

 

 

robpw

[DavidL]

Lots of good ideas here.

 

And I like that it's "pinned" so newbies like me can find it early.

 

I like the bilge-peek idea, and the doors / curtains, and the skirting board for cableruns, as well as the exterior gas storage close to the greatest gas usage (galley), and of course LED's will be THE major light source over the coming years.

 

And I'll add some more, and hope some of you more experienced folks can validate them or tell me why they're not great. Some are "provisional" for those of us not designing a new boat from 'scratch.'

 

Background: I bought a 1904 dutch barge that has has at least two different "fit outs" over the last few decades, some stuff is older, some newer; some looks well thought-out, some looks to be lacking in recent "common sense" boating insights.

 

Centralize Systems, within reason

When I bought my 15meter/48foot x 3.6m beam barge, the 12v water pressure pump/balloon was all the way aft, the gas instant water heater all the way forward; the 220 distribution panel was (still is) also in the forward hold, and the galley is all the way forward. My thinking has been to bring things together into the engine room (under the wheelhouse, about 1/3 of the way from the stern). I've move the water pressure pump there, and I'm trying to figure out how to move the 220 panel and the hot water heater there - but I am concerned about having the gas heater (with it's "pilot light" (constant flame)) in the same room as the batteries. Engine room is pretty well ventilated, but from what I understand hydrogen gas sometimes comes out from the batts, and is somewhat flammable/explosive. I use a newer victron 1200w/50A charger which is supposed to moderate the charge current as the batts get charged, so reduce gassing, but...does my instant gas water heater with a pilot light need to be in an entirely different room?

 

Simplify systems

Related to centralizing, my boat came with a 220v household balloon style hot water tank (is this what you all call a calorifier?), and a gas on-demand, instant heater, and there's a big box that the engine cooling water goes through, which has two extra/closed pipe fittings on it (really I think this is what you call calorifier). I think this last item used to be connected to household "tap" hotwater (for showers, sink, etc), and/or for the radiator system (now powered by a Refleks diesel dripfeed). I'm hoping to cut out one of these water heating systems (probably the 220v balloon if I can figure out why the engine-heated "calorifier" was disconnected in the first place)

 

Heavy curtains over drafty / less-insulated areas

I haven't yet been able to refit all my single-glazed windows with double-glazed, or even to seal up all the cracks where air flows through (especially in the wheelhouse with sliding doors) - and it gets a lot colder here than most of you folks in the UK have to deal with, but I got some very heavy, floor-to-ceiling curtains to hang over my drafty sliding doors. You see these in restaurants all the time, and I kinda like the feel of entering from the cold, through the heavy curtain, into the warmth. Ultimately, I'll do up a proper new wheelhouse, with insulate walls and sealed doors, and double glazing, but in the mean time, 100 euros on curtains has probably saved that much on heating fuel (and the comfort is great).

 

Work bench in the engine room

I think someone mentioned this in this thread already, but is sure sounded good, small would be better than nothing, and maybe the seat folds down to the wall, but there's lots of little fix it jobs I do elsewhere now, and it would be nice to not have to clear them out of the way to eat! What should be installed, or easily reachable from such a "workbench" ?

 

pull-out shelves for batteriesI've seen this on another barge and wonder about sourcing the good stuff. The idea being that you stack the batts up, but can pull them out to check the water levels, etc. I suppose batts should be in "waterproof / sealed, yet ventilated" boxes, but what if those were on sliders, like drawers? is this just too far into fantasy land? How much cable "slack" can you work into the system?

 

Bigger water tanks

I don't know about you all, but I figure the water tank filling routine is neat and all, but most of the work is getting the hose hooked up and getting the water flowing. Monitoring for 10 minutes or 30 minutes is hardly any difference (i'm always doing something else at the same time). So, my boat came with 440 liters water storage (~100 gallons) and I'm planning a 1000 litre water tank instead (i've got the room under the bed, which I'll raise just a bit). Bigger water tank also moderates temperatures better, too.

 

That's enough for now...Your thoughts?

 

ALSO:

How elaborate do you want your electrics? Keep a good schematic of electrics and mark each cable wellat various point along the length. Make your cable runs twice the size that you first thought ofand leave one cable spare to act a draw string. Includeaccess points in each cabin.Keep mains and battery cable well apart and clearly marked.Think carefully about auto and manual switching of split charge systemand 240ac hookup. Provide a ring main, just as important as on dry land!Fit suitable Residual Current Device/s. Read up specs on available inverters. You don't really want thosecheaper square waves if your fond of digital devices like Sat tvand computer screens. Pure sine is best but of course with everydegree of arc comes a greater cost.robpw

Can you say more about these things?Maybe it's because I speak English instead of British, or maybe it's my inexperience, but I never heard of a ring main, or a Residual Current Device. Can you direct my/our careful thinking about the switching of the split charge system and 220ac (continent) hookup?Why keep mains and batt cables well apart? heat? The batt cable should only heat up if it's overloaded, and if it's enough to melt the insulation, you're sure to have a problem! Is that what you're referring to? I agree "label the cable," but can you say more?thanks Edited November 26, 2007 by DavidL

[cyclic]

ALSO:

Can you say more about these things?Maybe it's because I speak English instead of British, or maybe it's my inexperience, but I never heard of a ring main, or a Residual Current Device.

 

David,

Maybe the continental electrical circuits are not bound by as many rules and regulations as they are in the UK, so are not as familiar to you as they are to us.

 

Here's 2 links explaining the answers to those questions........ both from Google...... RingMain and RCD

 

Can you direct my/our careful thinking about the switching of the split charge system and 220ac (continent) hookup?

Have a look at the technical button on This website. Charging and Split charge systems are explained in detail if you dig deep enough into the site, as well as a lot of other useful stuff about boat electrics

 

Why keep mains and batt cables well apart? heat? The batt cable should only heat up if it's overloaded, and if it's enough to melt the insulation, you're sure to have a problem! Is that what you're referring to? I agree "label the cable," but can you say more?thanks

I think the "Batt cable" in that context means the 12v circuits from the battery bank to the 12v lighting, pump and any other 12v equipment in the boat, NOT the heavy cables joining batteries together, but they should also be kept separate from any 220v supply.

If the 220 v system develops a fault and short circuits into the 12 v boat system.......... Big Bang and possibly angels singing, at worst. At least it will blow up your 12 v equipment.

 

Split charging in UK boating, means dividing or combining the charging current from the 12v charging device (Alternator, standalone charger, Wind turbine, solar panel) between the Starter battery and the Domestic Battery bank. (see that Link above)

If you were to use a 220v charger as well, you would have a selector switch which would direct the Hookup 220 v current to an RCD (as above) to your 220 v circuit in the boat OR the output from a 220v alternator to the RCD, then to a separate 220v supply unit such as Electrolux TravelPower and then to your boat 220v circuit.

Once again, The 220v circuit is COMPLETELY separate to the 12v circuit

Don't use AC switches for DC current, unless specifically made for the purpose.

 

Search this forum for the answers to all your questions, and if you need to ask more, start a thread in the relevant section. eg "Boat building and Maintenance"

 

Do you have a Boat Safety Inspection in France?

 

Hope that helps for a start

[DavidL]

Thanks,

 

It is a good start, and I'll look into the sites you offered.

 

I believe the inspections system is quite different here - especially for private (non-commercial), small (under 15m/48?feet) craft. But, I like safety, and doing it up proper and all, so for me it's not so much about passing an inspection, as it is about knowing how my systems work, why, and optimizing said systems towards my values of economy, simplicity, redundancy, and reliability.

 

Been busy with the project lately, so not on the forums much. I will be posting questions soon, as new threads (after searching through the existing info, of course).

 

thanks again

[bargemast]

sorry, I didn't mention my plans for the stand-up engine space and extended hatches that ScouseBoat has kindly agreed to incorporate, along with the wheelhouse surround that will form the basis for the boatman's cabin and wheelhouse (and conservatory when I'm residentially disadvantaged).

 

I'm still trying to work out where to garage the car. Impressed by those Rhine barges with a 2CV parked on the cabin roof.

 

No idea when you saw your last Rhine barge, but if you've seen one with a 2 CV, that must have been a car collector, as the average Rhine barge has several cars on the roof, and it's more big size Merc's, Bmw's and Audi's.

 

By the way, almost every cargo-barge now has a car on board, somewhere on the deck, roof or suspended in the hold, even on the 38m Freycinet barges.

 

I suppose that the easiest, but by far not the safest thing to carry on a NB would be a quad of some sort.

[Ex- Member]

save space and do without internal doors except to the you-know-where.

 

hang heavy curtains from brass rods with nice big curtain rings.

 

soft and cosy appearance, no need to plan for door swing, keeps the boat open and airy during the day, keeps the heat in and the draughts out at night.

 

my wide-beam will have just one door, to the bathroom. There will be a curtain at the end of the corridor past the bathroom where it leads into bedroom 1, and another between bedroom 1 and the rear cabin (occasional bedroom 2 also serving as utility room).

 

Hi Chris

 

Your boat must be similar to ours, we only have a door to the engine room, and you know where, and heavy curtains seem a great option we hadn't thought of, especially in the winter.

 

Cool

[Ex- Member]

Been all through this thread and some good ideas, most of which we have already adopted. When deciding to live on a boat, and undertake the fitting out, we took an approach of things we didn't like living in bricks & mortar. One of them was the height of standard house kitchens. I have always suffered a niggling back when washing up and preparing food, I'm 5/ft 10" and Lynn is 5/ft 7" and she also feels the kitchen worksurfaces are too low. So we experimented with heights that felt comfortable by rigging up a bench. The height we came up with was 4 incher higher than the norm, so the gally kitchen has been built at this height. Since then working in the gally cooking washing up etc is a joy, no back pain or aching when doing stuff, basically being able to do things with a straight back, kitchen sink outlet is also way above the waterline.

 

Raising the height of the units was simple, don't bother with the flimsy feet supplied with your kitchen, just make your own plinth from plywood, a much more solid base for units anyway. The fridge and cooker fit snugly to the top of the units as they should. The other advantage of doing this is the drawers and cupboards are higher and easier to access, along with the fridge and cooker. In addition in the space under the kitchen units I now have room for a low levell draw which I'll be making shortly which will be 6" high 24" deep and 30" wide, a superb space for storage, the drawer will be set on small rollers and roll out from under the sink unit area. Ideal for tinned food and dried foods you don't have to access too often, or any other items. The other upshot was the fridge being raised off the ground allows much more air able to circulate which helps the fridge run more efficiently.

 

I did mention this in another post before i realised this was here. When laying your ballast, do so on plastic or hardwood strip 5 to 10mm thick. This will stop ballast scratching the tar on the base of the boat if moves, and also allows the ballast to breathe. If moisture gets between brick and steel, it'll stay there a long time. Any leakage into the bilge will dry out much quicker too. I also went as far as doing this on the sides of ballast that would come in contact with steel.

 

We have also in stalled 2 x 4" comp fans in the floor of the galley under the fridge, a void has been made with the ballast, and the fans draw up cool air, some of which go to the back of the fridge and most blows out from a gap under the fridge. Nice to have on in the summer when cooking. More floor fans planned elsewhere.

 

12 volt sockets. Instead of the standard 12 volt cigar lighter type plugs and sockets which wobble around, disconnect at free will and are generally total crap, go for these. http://www.sailgb.com/p/12v_8a_din_standard_plug/

A quid or so dearer each but what a difference, really secure fit, the sockets fit and screw tichtly into a 13mm hole with a nut at the rear to tighten, they're smaller neater the sockets have a dust cover and far superior to the other, the plugs do need soldering, the sockets have spade connectors.

 

We'll be at the boat this weekend fitting out, so I will take some photos of other features that may be of interest.

[Chris Pink]

deleted

Edited April 3, 2008 by Chris Pink

[Amicus]

12 volt sockets. Instead of the standard 12 volt cigar lighter type plugs and sockets which wobble around, disconnect at free will and are generally total crap, go for these. http://www.sailgb.com/p/12v_8a_din_standard_plug/

A quid or so dearer each but what a difference, really secure fit, the sockets fit and screw tichtly into a 13mm hole with a nut at the rear to tighten, they're smaller neater the sockets have a dust cover and far superior to the other, the plugs do need soldering, the sockets have spade connectors.

 

Couple of years ago I helped a (very wealthy) guy who wanted some work doing on his gurt gin palace. One job he had me do was remove all the 12V car type sockets, about a dozen, and fit these,

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?TabID=...34&doy=30m5

they have a bayonet type of locking and seem to be of good quality.

[Bullfrog]

Couple of years ago I helped a (very wealthy) guy who wanted some work doing on his gurt gin palace. One job he had me do was remove all the 12V car type sockets, about a dozen, and fit these,

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?TabID=...34&doy=30m5

they have a bayonet type of locking and seem to be of good quality.

 

These are "speakon" connectors used in the music industry for connecting loud speakers to amplifier heads. Although they are rugged and heavy duty for the music application, I have never assumed they could be used as you suggest.

 

I would take professional advice before using them for this kind of application.

 

David

Edited May 30, 2008 by Bullfrog

[Ally]

Hi All

 

 

1.Fit a outside Hot water tap at rear of boat.Great when washing windows etc

without carrying a bucket through the boat.Cold dirty water is of coarse free!

 

2.Lie!! Open as many trade accounts as possible. When fitting a boat every penny

counts!!!

 

3.Dont be afraid deviating from tradition. Boat builders are set in there ways!

 

4.Split up with your girlfriend/Wife before you start.

She will prob leave you anyway within 9 months of building since you become

a complete bore to her and you stop caring what you look like

Remember Divorce stops you ordering the more expensive items like heating boilers etc!!

 

 

A bit underhand I know!!!

 

 

Glenn

[Ally]

oops, blond moment!

[ditchcrawler]

of course my engine is where it belongs - hidden away under that enormous rear deck, sharing space with no-one and nobody.

The misses would have ell of a job hanging her smalls down there

[ChrisPy]

blimey, you've been dredging the archives, 'aven't you?

[ditchcrawler]

blimey, you've been dredging the archives, 'aven't you?

I had never looked at these pages before

[BlueStringPudding]

Here's a fit out good idea (I think): I've just built a folding breakfast bar in the galley/diner.

 

I made it from my old much-too-big gateleg table. I cut away the upper surface, retaining the hinges and part of the table top. This I screwed to a long piece of two-be-four-be-two-be-four-be. Screwed the whole thing to the wall under the gunnels to create a hinged flap.

Made a newspaper pattern of the shape of the bar top I wanted, which I took to my favourite DIY-mongerers and they cut it for me out of pine. I asked them to cut two of them, because one part creates the folding bar surface and the other part is the mirror image of it and sits on top of the old small food cupboard under the gunnels essentially doubling it's usuable work surface. When the bar flap is in the up position, it appears to join the other one creating one really long surface. Got the wood pieces home, sanded them, varnished them to match the wood panelling on the walls, and screwed one part to the hinged bit I'd previously attached to the wall.

 

When up it's supported by two large shelf brackets (in the B&Q sale for about £3 each), which are hinged (again recycling more hinges from the old gateleg table) so they can fold flush against the wall when it's folded down. It looks great, the shelf brackets are L-shaped so leave the underneath looking open and spacious, and it's nice to know it can fold away if we want to open out the room or if we want to bring in a convential dining table (a fold-away one of those is my next project) when more than two people are eating.

 

From a socialising point of view, it also means two people can sit at the bar on stools and four people can comfortably sit on the L-shaped diner sofa for chatting and bevvies.

 

Here's a diagram I did months ago of the galley and dining area. The higgledly-piggeldy collection of purple and pink shapes against the port-side wall (bottom of the diagram) were the old small food cupboard mentioned above (in pink on the diagram), plus my old gateleg table, plus a kitchen trolley all squashed in next to each other as we didn't have enough work surfaces in there.

 

 

This is a recent diagram I did. It shows how the kitchen trolley and gateleg table have gone (plenty of firewood for us this autumn!) and that the old food cupboard is topped by a long fixed surface. The dotted lines joining it show where the folding part of the breakfast bar is.

 

 

Of course I got Kev's okay on building it by telling him it's a breakfast bar, but I really think it's a cocktail bar!

 

The whole thing was done for the bargain price of £30 including materials and labour. We're dead chuffed. I'll have to get a photo of it and put it on here.

Edited October 15, 2008 by BlueStringPudding

[Purple Fairie]

I'll have to get a photo of it and put it on here.

 

Yes please! I'm trying to get Smudge to make one for the Fairy so some inspiration would be a godsend

[John Orentas]

There have been a number of threads about cruiser rear deck boards lately, I have always favoured a traditional design of canvas covering, this was dealt with in a previous contribution;

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php...rt=#entry234447

 

My friends boat however, an older cruiser style Liverpool boat had additional problems, though we cured the leakage from the deck boards there was a residual problem of drainage of the rear steps, the lower one must by necessity be drilled to get rid of the rainwater. There was also a problem of rain blowing onto the rear door and it's frame causing them to swell, water also seeped under the door and into the cabin.

 

I designed and had made a canvas 'tent' taking the form of a kind of lean-too covering the door and the area of the steps.. The shape is a right angle triangle viewed from the side, it is held in position by several small bungee straps with stainless hooks at strategic places. P.m for more detail.

[dor]

Ah, the good old LB outside steps........

 

My solution to this on my last boat was to fit a 1" skin fitting in the bottom step, with two wide grooves cut across it so that the water could drain into it without a lip. Bit of pipe underneath connected to the drip bilge at the stern. I put another hole through the riser about half an inch up so water could still escape before it reached the level of the door sill if the pipe got blocked. Used a piece of the holey rubber on the steps so that water could run underneath and reach the drain hole.