Advice re: moving out of a marina on to the towpath

[dibley]

My very post, so hello to you all.

 

I am a liveaboard in a BW Marina (I don't want to say where). My boat is a smallish widebeam and because of this I am having to pay double the price of a nb (£3K+ pa). In contrast, many of the nb's in the marina take up wb spaces but they only pay once or one and a half. There is a huge amount of politics and favourtisim and if your face fits then your OK, but if not, then life becomes really difficult. I've tried to address this in an appropriate way but that only makes matters worse, so I now realise that its time to move on so I am currently exploring my options so to speak.

 

At the current time I do have 240v hook-up, however if I transfer to a towpath then I have no idea how to run the electrics on my boat. I have 3 battery's , 1 started battery and a very small genie (700w). However, even with my limited knowledge I know that that isn't enough so can folk recommend how to improve my electric output especially to secure me through the winter months.

 

P.S. If when you post back, please make it very simple - I won't feel offended honesty!

[johnjo]

My very post, so hello to you all.

 

I am a liveaboard in a BW Marina (I don't want to say where). My boat is a smallish widebeam and because of this I am having to pay double the price of a nb (£3K+ pa). In contrast, many of the nb's in the marina take up wb spaces but they only pay once or one and a half. There is a huge amount of politics and favourtisim and if your face fits then your OK, but if not, then life becomes really difficult. I've tried to address this in an appropriate way but that only makes matters worse, so I now realise that its time to move on so I am currently exploring my options so to speak.

 

At the current time I do have 240v hook-up, however if I transfer to a towpath then I have no idea how to run the electrics on my boat. I have 3 battery's , 1 started battery and a very small genie (700w). However, even with my limited knowledge I know that that isn't enough so can folk recommend how to improve my electric output especially to secure me through the winter months.

 

P.S. If when you post back, please make it very simple - I won't feel offended honesty!

 

 

Others more capable than me will be along soon, but you will need to provide a list of electrical needs, i.e. how many lights, wattage, pumps, TV radio etc: I'm sure you've got the idea by now.

 

Sorry to hear that lifes a bit difficult where you are, I'm sure there are lots of other marinas that are fair and more sociable.

 

Good luck

[casper ghost]

You'll have to get used to using alot less electricity, most of us manage it. A solid fuel stove for heating. Only watch the tv when something goods on, that'll restrict use considerably!

I run my engine for about 2 hours a day to give enough charge in the battery for an evening, but really i need to cruise a bit to get a good charge in them.

You could try solar panels as they work well to help keep the battery topped up, but wind turbines are less effective and make alot of noise if mounted on the boat itself.

I'm sure you'll cope fine.

[blackrose]

At the current time I do have 240v hook-up, however if I transfer to a towpath then I have no idea how to run the electrics on my boat. I have 3 battery's , 1 started battery and a very small genie (700w). However, even with my limited knowledge I know that that isn't enough so can folk recommend how to improve my electric output especially to secure me through the winter months.

 

It basically comes down to a balance between energy generation (by means of alternator, generator, solar panels or wind generator), energy storage capacity (batteries), and energy consumption.

 

If you want to go though it logically you'd work backwards by doing an energy audit - an estimate of how much power you will use in amp/hours from your batteries each day - just find out how many amps each appliance (including lights, water pump, etc) uses and multiply buy the number of hours you use them. Add an extra 10% for any appliance you're using through the inverter. If you plan to use any mains appliances direct from a generator while charging your batteries with a battery charger at the same time, then these would not be part of the energy audit.

 

Once you have a figure for your daily amp/hour usage you can then look at your energy storage and generation. This is a bit more complicated because batteries don't get charged at anything like the times you'd expect from a generator/battery charger or alternator of a particular output, and the charging rates are not linear.

 

Anyway, I'm sure someone more electronically minded than me can advise you better than me.

Edited March 26, 2009 by blackrose

[Lady Muck]

We managed with the same set up as you, but we do have two solar panels on the roof. We would limit ourselves to one light only at night and either radio/tv or laptop but not all at once. We also ran a fridge. We didn't run the engine every day, perhaps every second or third day.

 

Be aware that if you get more batteries then you'll have to charge them up for longer. Plus not everyone wants to be moored next to a boat with a genny going constantly.

[bottle]

We managed with the same set up as you, but we do have two solar panels on the roof. We would limit ourselves to one light only at night and either radio/tv or laptop but not all at once. We also ran a fridge. We didn't run the engine every day, perhaps every second or third day.

 

Be aware that if you get more batteries then you'll have to charge them up for longer. Plus not everyone wants to be moored next to a boat with a genny going constantly.

 

Not quite

 

You only have to put back what you use plus approximately 50% (trust me )

 

The argument discussion goes that if you have more batteries, then you can go longer between charges and if you do then you will have to charge longer it is all a matter of balance.

[Lesd]

My very post, so hello to you all.

 

I am a liveaboard in a BW Marina (I don't want to say where). My boat is a smallish widebeam and because of this I am having to pay double the price of a nb (£3K+ pa). In contrast, many of the nb's in the marina take up wb spaces but they only pay once or one and a half. There is a huge amount of politics and favourtisim and if your face fits then your OK, but if not, then life becomes really difficult. I've tried to address this in an appropriate way but that only makes matters worse, so I now realise that its time to move on so I am currently exploring my options so to speak.

 

At the current time I do have 240v hook-up, however if I transfer to a towpath then I have no idea how to run the electrics on my boat. I have 3 battery's , 1 started battery and a very small genie (700w). However, even with my limited knowledge I know that that isn't enough so can folk recommend how to improve my electric output especially to secure me through the winter months.

 

P.S. If when you post back, please make it very simple - I won't feel offended honesty!

 

I know a couple that did this last year, they were running their engine for hours initially until they got things under control.

One of he things that was consuming a lot of battery power was their central heating system which they seemed to have on all winter ! It was their only form of heating initially and its quite a large power draw if its on all the time. They eventually installed a solid fuel stove and saved a lots of battery power.

 

There are lots of electric experts on here who will help you but dont over look the benefits of solid fuel stoves on battery power (sounds odd I know). Apologies f you already have one !

 

Les

[nb Innisfree]

My very post, so hello to you all.

 

I am a liveaboard in a BW Marina (I don't want to say where). My boat is a smallish widebeam and because of this I am having to pay double the price of a nb (£3K+ pa). In contrast, many of the nb's in the marina take up wb spaces but they only pay once or one and a half. There is a huge amount of politics and favourtisim and if your face fits then your OK, but if not, then life becomes really difficult. I've tried to address this in an appropriate way but that only makes matters worse, so I now realise that its time to move on so I am currently exploring my options so to speak.

 

At the current time I do have 240v hook-up, however if I transfer to a towpath then I have no idea how to run the electrics on my boat. I have 3 battery's , 1 started battery and a very small genie (700w). However, even with my limited knowledge I know that that isn't enough so can folk recommend how to improve my electric output especially to secure me through the winter months.

 

P.S. If when you post back, please make it very simple - I won't feel offended honesty!

[/quote

 

If you, say, double your battery bank and also double your generator/alternator output you will, in theory, half your charging time (it will take a bit longer than half) So I would suggest more batteries + more charging capacity, no more than 20% charging to battery ah capacity

[Denis R]

I spent 6 months with a shore hook-up before moving to an on-line mooring with no mains and the difference is staggering. As other posters have mentioned you do need to be very aware of what's taking your power. I'm also staggered by the rate of deterioration of the batteries with the constant discharge/charge cycling. I recommend Gibbo's SmartGauge as it will give you a very good indication of how quickly you're using the juice and what the state of charge is. You have to be prepared for it to tell you some nasty truths mind you!

I've failed miserably to manage an effective discharge/charge regime so far as I'm often not home in time to avoid the 8pm curfew and it's showing. Gibbo will probably tell you that batteries should be considered consumable and from my experience, he's right.

[Naughty Cal]

Forgive me if i have missed the point, but is it not an option to find another marina in the area. Not all marinas are full of tossers.

[carlt]

Not all marinas are full of tossers.

Just some.

[Sir Nibble]

Just some.

I doubt that any marinas are "full" of tossers, just some have more than others. It's a bit like housing, you know like when you move in and someone knocks on your door and introduces themselves as a "senior" resident and "we like it quiet round here". Some marinas have them too and how much the other users do or don't let them get away with will set the tone giving the impression that the marina is full of tossers when in fact the two or three that exist just get away with a lebensraum policy.

[carlt]

I doubt that any marinas are "full" of tossers................snip

The invisible tongue in cheek smiley was deployed.

[Naughty Cal]

It does also depend on your view of what a tosser is.

[dibley]

Hi,

 

Thanks to everyone for positing. I'm going to have to find an electrician to work out what my usage is as I really am rather dense when it comes to this kind of stuff. I'll look into a solar panel (any recommendations?). I know I need more battery's so I have that in hand, and I also have a geni but it is really loud and I am sure that I would upset someone if I had it on a couple of hours a day!!

 

I do have a lot of electricl items on my boat i.e. household fridge (not 12v), TV, laptop, stero etc.... I also have an 1800wt convertor which is quite good and a mutli-fuel stove but that doesn't link up to anything electrical.

 

In terms of what defines a tossier - em? Well, in my marina the tone is very much set by the warden who has a few favourties who tend to dicate what happens. I fell foul of this by asking about transparency and openess which did not go down too well. I would love to find another marina in the area or an end of garden mooring, but I can't find anything hence my considering moving on to the tow path. If I don't, I'll end up paying £3k a year in mooring fees and with no chance of moving as my copybook has been blotted shall we say.

[sociable_hermit]

I have no idea where you are, but if you're in the Midlands I can heartily recommend Mercia Marina which has a very good attitude towards boaters and seems, so far, to be tosser-free.

[curzons246]

I have no idea where you are, but if you're in the Midlands I can heartily recommend Mercia Marina which has a very good attitude towards boaters and seems, so far, to be tosser-free.

We really liked the look of Mercia but there terms rule out the boat being your main residence? Cheers Bill

 

 

We really liked the look of Mercia but there terms rule out the boat being your main residence? Cheers Bill

[bastonjock]

one way to reduce your power consumption is by fitting LED lights in place of the monofillament type,another must is a battery monitoring device.if you want to achieve the maximum life of your battery bank,do not allow the batterys to drop below 70% of their charge,there are a lot of devices in marine mags for battery monitoring.Solar panels are a great way to keep the battery topped up,backed up with a weekly run from the genny.

 

Learn to switch things off dont leave stuff on standby and the solid fuel heating is a must,the only power consumption with those is when the small pump runs to feed the rads.

 

The easiest way to figure out how much power you are consuming is to have an electrician fit a monitoring device and then switch stuff on one at a time and record the consumption,then you can calculate how much power you are going to need,the monitoring gadgets show you in plain language,how much power you have in reserve,and how much you are using.

[honey ryder]

i live towpath side, i dont have a solar panel or wind gennie.

I have 3 batteries for domestic use. I manage fine, only charging for 2 hours every alternating day. this is achieved by switching off the fridge, ( its amazing how much we DONT actually need a fridge, butter, cheese etc etc keep ok if they are at the bottom of the boat as it is always cool down there and meat, well, buy it and eat it quickly!) and not having any 240v gadgets except except a vacuum and washing machine which are powered by a generator.

 

apart from that, we use 12v to charge everything else, almost everything these days has a 12v charger.

i highly recommend an amp meter, something that will tell you the charge level of your batteries, it should give you info such as current power drain, amps used, amp hours remaining, battery voltage

from this you can judge for yourself when the batteries need charging, i generally charge my batteries when they are minus 30-40amps, this is roughly 2 days worth of power consumption for us (us = 2 people).

water pump, shower drain pump, banks of 5w halogen lights, mobile phone or psp charge, portable dvd player charge, daily stereo usage.

if i switch my new and efficient 12v fridge on, i need to charge daily for 1.5 hours.

 

to make it simple, find a decent amp meter, learn how it works, head out to the tow path and find your own battery charging rythm. its different for everyone. 3 batteries is definitely enough!

[alan_fincher]

i highly recommend an amp meter, something that will tell you the charge level of your batteries, it should give you info such as current power drain, amps used, amp hours remaining, battery voltage

from this you can judge for yourself when the batteries need charging, i generally charge my batteries when they are minus 30-40amps, this is roughly 2 days worth of power consumption for us (us = 2 people).

water pump, shower drain pump, banks of 5w halogen lights, mobile phone or psp charge, portable dvd player charge, daily stereo usage.

if i switch my new and efficient 12v fridge on, i need to charge daily for 1.5 hours.

 

to make it simple, find a decent amp meter, learn how it works, head out to the tow path and find your own battery charging rythm. its different for everyone. 3 batteries is definitely enough!

HR

 

To be clear, and for the avoidance of doubt to others, you actually mean an "amp hour" meter not an "amp" meter.

 

The latter will only show instantaneously how much current you are drawing. The former will give some estimate, (but not a totally reliable picture), of the degree to which you have drained your batteries, and to which they need recharging.

 

An 'amp hour' meter will be a considerably more expensive purchase that an 'amp' meter (or "ammeter").

 

Another option is Gibbo's SmartGauge that is designed to calculate state of charge by measurements taken on the batteries alone, and which does not try to track "amp hours" in and out. A more accurate result is claimed.

[nb Innisfree]

Friends of ours don't have a fridge and are very frugal with power, charging time 1hr per day, they stop charging when Sterling controller reaches float charge! (Liveaboards 4x110ah batts) their last batteries lasted 5 years!

[Mary 1]

Forgive me if i have missed the point, but is it not an option to find another marina in the area. Not all marinas are full of tossers.

 

We have been in three marina's you seem to get the longest resident in charge of the new-be. We have moved on to tow path now, its much nicer, much more friendly, you get to see so much more, and your boat will be looked out for as well, by near by moorers. I am so so much happier. I found it hard to even breath in the ABC leisure marina's, in fact I almost gave up. but now have my new[to me] flutterbye.

Mary1

[blackrose]

No tossers at my marina - we all get on very well.

[alan_fincher]

No tossers at my marina - we all get on very well.

It's those special team building exercises you go in for.....

 

Like middle of the night fire-fighting, for instance.

[Tom6]

Personality clashes can just happen without anyone really being at fault. Things that would be forgivable in a friendship become intolerable in an ex-friendship. Chances are that they are being tossers because they think you're the tosser and that they are fully justified in being rubbish to you. Possibly someone else in this forum would find the marina you are in like moving into heaven (or perhaps they are already in your marina). Once you see yourself as the outcast or feel like you're walking on eggshells all the time then it becomes practically impossible to behave as you normally would. You seem a decent sort of chap and sometimes the best thing you can get out of a situation like that is yourself.

 

It might be tough at first, the crucial thing is to make sure you can switch off all electrical power in your boat from a switch that's preferably near an indicator that shows you when there's dangerously low charge in your batteries. Having a separate starter battery does provide you with a very good safety margin though. But it might be good to spend the first week or so on the move fairly constantly just to get the wind through your hair(?) and experience the freedom of being freeee at last Also that reduces the chances of being forced into running the engine/genny at night and if you do but then move on the next day then at least people can't give you so much grief. People sometimes forgive an amazing amount if you present them with even a fairly cheap bottle of wine the next day, if you need a break from rushing along the canal. I'm not sure the penalty for running engines/genny late at night, it's just not something that i would do if i could possibly avoid it. Once you've gotten a bit more used to changing your lifestyle, eg long walks and a good book rather than tele on all the time, then you'll find other benefits from living a healthier life (in theory), i'm not sure if you watch tele at all but you know what i mean

 

Good luck and regards from

Tom

 

PS errr, i'm assuming you're not working which is possibly assuming a bit much. If you are working then a crate of wine seems a good investment, jic.

Edited June 20, 2009 by Tom6