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Tam & Di

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Watten.jpg

 

I got this photo with a handful of French postcards of péniches. The name is "Rigolo" but that does not seem likely as original. On the back it says "La famille Thérèse Morette à Watten"

 

Watten is on the Canal à Grand Gabarit between Calais and St Omer in N. France. Any suggestions? Di reckons it was probably in the '40s from the clothes.

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I got this photo with a handful of French postcards of péniches. The name is "Rigolo" but that does not seem likely as original. On the back it says "La famille Thérèse Morette à Watten"

 

Watten is on the Canal à Grand Gabarit between Calais and St Omer in N. France. Any suggestions? Di reckons it was probably in the '40s from the clothes.

 

Large fore cabin, can only think of Berrichons, but those I've seen are pretty blunt - more like river class boats, that's quite fine. A bit Walker'ish. No idea.

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I agree with the date of dress - Northern Europe post-war - could be Calais in the background.

 

It looks like a wooden narrow boat - could it be the mythical narrow boat which crossed the channel for the relief of Dunkirk but never returned?

 

I think my very first post in 05 was about this very subject where I had chatted to a boater at a lockside who told me the story which I believe he told the truth as far as he knew which was eventually debunked here as being a fictional leg pull by some wag of a boatman in the 60's or 70's

I spent ages examining as many beach scenes of the nightmare as I could fins trying to spot a narrow boat amongst the smoke, wreckage and winding queues of soldiers - to no avail.

 

There must be a story behind this photo.....

 

Nice one Tam & Di...

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Early April Fool?

 

Rigolo is French for joke or fraud.

 

Too much shape for a Ricky, btw.

The name certainly looks "Photoshopped" on. The white panel is marginally higher tha te surrounding woodwork at the "nose" end.

 

Rigolo - "Fraud" / "Phoney"

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The name certainly looks "Photoshopped" on. The white panel is marginally higher tha te surrounding woodwork at the "nose" end.

 

Rigolo - "Fraud" / "Phoney"

 

And if it is a postcard, why are the top and left edges torn as if ripped out of something?

 

Richard

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And if it is a postcard, why are the top and left edges torn as if ripped out of something?

In a postcard wavy edges would be quite unusual.

 

But for a photographic print there are periods when they were very common - I have quite a few just like that in an envelope here now.

 

I think it's photo, rather than postcard, and that it's been got at. How much it's been got at I'm not sure, but I believe.....

 

The name is "Rigolo" but that does not seem likely as original.

 

:lol:

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In a postcard wavy edges would be quite unusual.

 

But for a photographic print there are periods when they were very common - I have quite a few just like that in an envelope here now.

 

I think it's photo, rather than postcard, and that it's been got at. How much it's been got at I'm not sure, but I believe.....

 

He does say that it is a photo, but I would have expected either plain edges or something with a regular pattern, not just a torn edge. Who carefully tears photopaper into rectangles when scissors are easier?

 

Richard

 

Quelle blague!

Edited by RLWP
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In a postcard wavy edges would be quite unusual.

 

But for a photographic print there are periods when they were very common - I have quite a few just like that in an envelope here now.

 

I think it's photo, rather than postcard, and that it's been got at. How much it's been got at I'm not sure, but I believe.....

 

:lol:

 

The name looks more as though it's stencilled onto a thin board which has been fastened onto the top bend.

The fore end looks quite tired, there are no guard irons and no ice plating other than a bit of probable sheathing on the side of the stem post, and no obvious signs of guards having been recently removed.

 

I have got one or two deckle-edged postcards, from France in the 1980s, but those edges look too random to be machine cut.

 

Is it actually a Narrow Boat or something a bit wider?

 

Tim

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He does say that it is a photo, but I would have expected either plain edges or something with a regular pattern, not just a torn edge

 

A randomly wavy edge was quite common on photographic prints of the period. The two edges visible are quite in keeping with that style rather than just a torn edge. Probably not visible on the other two edges from the way it was scanned.

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Right ho.

Something not quite kosher about those shadows, you having us on Mr Murrell? :lol:

 

Nope. It's absolutely genuine (and a month too early for April). I'm sure the name is just painted on a board and nailed on. There were two photos, much smaller than postcards, and both have crinkly edges which was quite common at that period. The other one shows the same family (we believe) on a wooden Chaland, about 38m x 5m. You're right about the meaning of rigolo, but on the other hand the French mariniers call the narrow boats which have fetched up over here in recent years "saucissons" (little sausage) - they do think they are funny little things, and you can see their point.

 

Watten is just a few kilometers north of St Omer and there is still a yard there. I've not looked to see if the present buildings correspond with the photo.

 

We did hear from boatmen down at Brentford about narrowboats being taken to Dunkirk. We were told they were used to ferry troops off the beach to bigger ships off-shore. Apparently some concrete ones were taken over as well at some point, but I'd have to think about what we were told they were used for.

 

I did think maybe a Ricky. It's very heavily built, but not a Severner as the stem is very raked and there are no bitts visible. It's certainly not a 90' x 9' berrichon, which rise up sharply at the fore end. They generally had accommodation at the stern that was often not much more than a tent, and a small "cabin" mid-ships that was stabling for the mules.

 

Berrichon.jpg

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I've now blown my scan up to A4, but I can't make out anything much more. The stem and person with the funny shorts are fairly sharp, but much of the boat is just too out of focus to get real detail. The "smiley" on the wall is just a lifebuoy. I can't determine how many planks it has, but I'm estimating it's about 4'6" deep. The top guard looks more like timber than iron, and there's another guard at the top of the hull from immediately behind the fore cabin. It look rather as if they have been blacking the hull and stopped short of the stem.

Edited by Tam & Di
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I look at a lot of old photos and a lot of old narrow boats and there is nothing obvious about the photo thzt suggests fake.

"Here, let me take a photo of you against that weird boat", is the visual suggestion here. I create images from old photos to attempt to recreate the past. This looks as if a fragment of heresay might be true (re; Dunkirk) but the Piltdown Man was a pretty good fake....

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Early April Fool?

 

Rigolo is French for joke or fraud.

 

Too much shape for a Ricky, btw.

I would have expected better from you Carl, being a Wooden boat man. I agree that the boats built by Walkers for the GUCC were not the most shapely, but they were built to a specific design and were built at some speed.

 

The earlier Walker boats had very attractive bows, not disimilar to some Nursers. Have a look at the pictures of Arveleecom on pages 66/67 in "Walkers of Ricky" I think you will agree that the bow has more "shape" than Rigolo.

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I would have expected better from you Carl, being a Wooden boat man. I agree that the boats built by Walkers for the GUCC were not the most shapely, but they were built to a specific design and were built at some speed.

 

The earlier Walker boats had very attractive bows, not disimilar to some Nursers. Have a look at the pictures of Arveleecom on pages 66/67 in "Walkers of Ricky" I think you will agree that the bow has more "shape" than Rigolo.

Well there are many different types of boats, that were built by Walker Bros, some more shapely than others (I particularly like the Whalers, built in 1945). By "Ricky", though, I was referring to the Star and Town Class boats that are the most recognisable of the Walker Bros' boats. These formed the vast bulk of the boats built at Rickmansworth and are what most folk describe as "Big or Small Rickys".

 

Whilst Arveleecom has a massive stempost rake, she lacks the double curvature that Rigolo's bows have, leading me to think she is an Uxbridge boat.

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Off-topic (sort of) but are there many wooden French peniches or other work boats left?

 

 

30+ years ago there were dozens of wooden Peniches lining the canal at Dunkirk, most looked as though they were retired along with the boat families, who were seeing out their days aboard & the boats would probably mostly have been broken up after that. There were a couple of very nicely maintained wooden boats, one had quite clearly just come off the dock, engaged in what my fading memory says was a traffic in peanuts out of the docks. These wooden boats would all have started life as dumb (bank hauled), though a few had been motorised & had weird & wonderful contraptions to connect to a propellor at the back of the (very large) rudder.

The unpowered boats generally had an extra 'sail' which could be lowered at the back of the rudder to make it even longer when running light, with a little winch on top of the rudder to wind the sail back up. Accommodation was generally halfway along the hull, dividing the hold in two, no doubt to even out the stresses on the hull between being empty & laden.

Edited to add:- There were metal hulled unpowered Peniches also built in that style.

 

I don't know why there was a particular concentration of wooden boats at Dunkirk, I never saw more than an odd few anywhere else, but maybe that was the last area where the French bank haulage system ran?

I haven't been back to Dunkirk since, probably all gone by now but that would be one of the first places to look.

 

There were two or three well-maintained wooden boats in Paris at about the same period, I think they were less than the standard 38m. size and looked as though they might have been part of some sort of municipal undertaking.

 

Regarding the Narrow Boat in the picture, the lack of guard irons and the extra guard along the top plank suggest adaptation to French usage, guard irons are a wonderful starting place for rot and would serve very little purpose in a French canal environment. Maybe it had been pressed into service for bank maintenance or similar?

 

Tim

Edited by Timleech
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Whilst the stories of FMC narrow boats going over to Dunkirk are generally now dismissed as a boatman's wind-up, there are more plausible stories of boats being taken over in the 1st World War to use to help supply munitions and provisions to the trenches. I believe an extensive railway network was built for this purpose so it seems entirely possible that boats were also utilised when appropriate.

 

And some FMC wideboats (some might have been as narrow as 10ft) are believed to be have been towed over for Dunkirk.

 

Paul H

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And some FMC wideboats (some might have been as narrow as 10ft) are believed to be have been towed over for Dunkirk.

 

Paul H

 

I'm still not 100% convinced that it is a Narrow Boat in the picture, though it's undoubtedly built in Narrow Boat style, I reckon it could be wider.

 

Tim

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I'm still not 100% convinced that it is a Narrow Boat in the picture, though it's undoubtedly built in Narrow Boat style, I reckon it could be wider.

 

Tim

 

Looking carefully at the fore end you can make out the tee stud, which I don't think you would see if it were 5' in from the side. Also looking at the angle of the name board and flare of the fore end does not really suggest a wideboat.

 

There is some square? thing apparently leaning against the back of the fore cabin. I don't think it is some structure which is visible behind the boat. I believe some northern boats had a wooden chimney, but it might more plausibly be the mast box.

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It look rather as if they have been blacking the hull and stopped short of the stem.

 

My interpretation of the "blacking" is that it is the shadow from an open-sided shed behind the cameramans left shoulder. There is the shadow of an upright running to the feet of the woman on the left, the shadow of the roof against the hull and the shadow of a flue pipe(?) at the top.

 

Richard

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Looking carefully at the fore end you can make out the tee stud, which I don't think you would see if it were 5' in from the side. Also looking at the angle of the name board and flare of the fore end does not really suggest a wideboat.

 

There is some square? thing apparently leaning against the back of the fore cabin. I don't think it is some structure which is visible behind the boat. I believe some northern boats had a wooden chimney, but it might more plausibly be the mast box.

 

I'll hazard an uninitiated guess here, but could the square thing, [don't know what it's called, :lol: obviously, :lol:] be what they towed it with, it looks square at the top with chamfers lower down?

Edited by johnjo
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