Death on T & M

[pagan witch]

An extremely sad and distressing item of news . . . .

 

On the 'This is Derbyshire' web site today (3rd Feb 2009) there is an item on a "63 year old man who lived on a narrowboat at Willington and today fell into the canal". Passers by pulled him out of the water but he had died.

 

A gas bottle was nearby the boat, the implication being that he'd been trying to change a gas bottle and fallen in.

 

How easy it is for our 'safe' way of life to take such a sudden and tragic turn.

[colin stone]

An extremely sad and distressing item of news . . . .

 

On the 'This is Derbyshire' web site today (3rd Feb 2009) there is an item on a "63 year old man who lived on a narrowboat at Willington and today fell into the canal". Passers by pulled him out of the water but he had died.

 

A gas bottle was nearby the boat, the implication being that he'd been trying to change a gas bottle and fallen in.

 

How easy it is for our 'safe' way of life to take such a sudden and tragic turn.

 

Agree, extremely tragic. A while ago I heard a splash and scream in our marina, grabbed my boarding ladder and legged it round to rescue the owner of a NB who had slipped off the wet side deck. It took a loop of mooring rope under the armpits and around the back with me pulling to achieve a rescue up the ladder.

 

As an aside, it makes me wonder whether the RCD requirement for reboarding a craft is worth the paper it is written on. I doubt whether many people, unless young and fit, can haul themselves out vertically after the shock of falling in - particularly when water temps are below 10C - which for most of the year in UK they will be and with the weight of wet clothing.

[Amduck]

But he may not have fallen in and died - maybe he fell in BECAUSE he died. Only the PM will tell. Sad anyway. RIP

[pagan witch]

Totally agree - we had a chap fall in here last year. Fell in the drink on account of too much drink.

 

Water only waist deep but he was one very overweight, short chap who really couldn't help himself and needed 4 people to haul out.

 

These 'boarding steps' built into the back of the counter are hopeless, the only real option in my view is a ladder - and I don't go for these rope jobbies either - far too floppy to be any good. A short section, 5 - 6 feet would do for most canals.

 

I do remember some years ago - like when I was in junior school learning how to get someone out of the water with just one person - it isn't that difficult in a swimming pool where the water is warm etc. but in the real world what normally happens is too many people with differing ideas on how to 'help' get in each other's way whilst the person in water gets colder and colder and becomes increasingly weaker and less co-operative.

[ChrisPy]

I do remember some years ago - like when I was in junior school learning how to get someone out of the water with just one person - it isn't that difficult in a swimming pool where the water is warm etc. but in the real world what normally happens is too many people with differing ideas on how to 'help' get in each other's way whilst the person in water gets colder and colder and becomes increasingly weaker and less co-operative.

It was not too difficult when you can kneel down on the edge of the baths and grip the victim under the armpits. That is not possible in real life.

 

A good heads-up about the need to fix a proper ladder to the boat. To be of any use it should always be in place, including when the boat is moving, and should extend at least 18" below the water level. Any ideas anyone?

[Naughty Cal]

It was not too difficult when you can kneel down on the edge of the baths and grip the victim under the armpits. That is not possible in real life.

 

A good heads-up about the need to fix a proper ladder to the boat. To be of any use it should always be in place, including when the boat is moving, and should extend at least 18" below the water level. Any ideas anyone?

 

We have a boarding ladder built into the bathing platform of Cal. It folds into the bathing platform when not in use but easily can be extended to recover someone from the water. A fold down cover prevents tripping when the ladder is stowed away. This has been used on sports boats for a while now. Im sure someone could invent a similar affair for narrowboats and inland cruisers.

[Barry]

Folding ladder, as Phylis says, with the hinge just above the waterline - some sort of quick release mechanism to keep it folded - the quick release mechanism operated by a cable with an easily gripped handle that stows just above the waterline where the rescuee can access it easily

 

A single self rescue ladder would have to be mounted at the stern where the arc of the folding part would not touch the bank

[carlt]

I'm thinking of having a footbridge built, outside my house, because of the obvious dangers associated with crossing the road, when I leave my front garden.

 

A rare, but not unheard of, tragedy should not have us redesigning narrowboats and incorporating more potential hazards.

 

The last thing I want to deal with is a ladder, stuck to my back deck, extending into the water.

[dor]

When I fell in a few years ago, on a Christmas eve, it was quite a shock as the water was very cold. It is the one time I have been grateful for the infamous "Shroppie shelf" as it helped me to get out onto the towpath. I was waering a fleece jacket - it is remarkable how much water they can hold. I'm reasonably fit - it could have been a different story if I wasn't and didn't have the shelf to act as a step.

[Naughty Cal]

I'm thinking of having a footbridge built, outside my house, because of the obvious dangers associated with crossing the road, when I leave my front garden.

 

A rare, but not unheard of, tragedy should not have us redesigning narrowboats and incorporating more potential hazards.

 

The last thing I want to deal with is a ladder, stuck to my back deck, extending into the water.

 

They fold away into the actual platform on the rear of the deck. They are stowed away completely until needed. Easy to fold away and easy to unfold should you need to. Safety has to be a major concern when boating. You cant always say where you are going to fall in and if there will be an easy place to get out again.

 

I fail to see how a ladder would be another potential hazard.

[carlt]

They fold away into the actual platform on the rear of the deck. They are stowed away completely until needed. Easy to fold away and easy to unfold should you need to. Safety has to be a major concern when boating. You cant always say where you are going to fall in and if there will be an easy place to get out again.

 

I fail to see how a ladder would be another potential hazard.

This is fine when you have a sunbathing platform but things are a bit different with a trad stern on a steel narrow boat.

[Naughty Cal]

This is fine when you have a sunbathing platform but things are a bit different with a trad stern on a steel narrow boat.

 

Who mentioned it had to go on the stern?

 

It could be fitted to any part of the shell. The only criteria really is that it reaches into the water when extended and is easy to extend from within the water.

[carlt]

Who mentioned it had to go on the stern?

 

It could be fitted to any part of the shell. The only criteria really is that it reaches into the water when extended and is easy to extend from within the water.

Careful of the stampede, as all the narrowboat owners rush to retro-fit a safety device that 99% of them will never use.

[Naughty Cal]

Careful of the stampede, as all the narrowboat owners rush to retro-fit a safety device that 99% of them will never use.

 

But the 1% that do will be thankful. Life saving devices are rarely used by their owners but the ones that do use them are thankful of them.

 

99% of the boating population will never need a lifeboat. Do we then put all lifeboats into retirement?

[Nightwatch]

I agree with Carlt. This something that is a personal item to be fitted.

 

I may or may not fit one.

 

Martyn

[Naughty Cal]

Nobody is saying you should go out and buy one/fit one. The question was is there something on the market that would do the job. The answer is yes there is and it has been used by many boat manufacturers for many years. It just hasnt made it into the narrowboat market yet.

[estwdjhn]

When I hear stories like this, I must admit my first reaction is "but for the grace of God...", thinking of moments when I've been fighting with gas bottles an icy front deck and the like.

However, I suspect that the number of deaths a year from falling in, is insufficient to justify making people fit ladders to their boats. Its still going to be a lot more dangerous to drive to work, than change a gas bottle, and most people don't think twice about jumping in the car. So I won't be bothering with a ladder.

 

However if I was to fit a ladder to my boat, I can't think of a worse place than the back to put it. If I fell in while underway, its quite possible that I would want to regain the boat, with the nose stuck in the bank, and the prop still running.

At that point, the back would be very low on my list of possible places to try and climb aboard.

 

TBH, if I fell in, 99% of the time, I would try and climb out onto the bank, rather than the boat. It is likely to be much easier, given the normal shape of boats, and the normal shape of the bank.

[carlt]

99% of the boating population will never need a lifeboat. Do we then put all lifeboats into retirement?

You are talking about a completely different thing.

 

If I fall of a boat, underway, on a canal, the last thing I'll be doing is swimming towards the boat.

 

9 times out of 10 I'll be standing up and wading to the bank, well away from the prop.

 

Boats that are designed to go to sea have different mob requirements. You need to get back on the boat because you probably won't be making it to shore.

 

As to lifeboats, it depends on the risk. The vast majority of coastal leisure boats don't have them, because they are expensive, rarely used and there is nowhere practical to fit them so it is a decision that every boat owner makes, depending on his circumstances.

 

If you're talking about the RNLI well you make a personal decision, whether to contribute, or not.

[Naughty Cal]

When I hear stories like this, I must admit my first reaction is "but for the grace of God...", thinking of moments when I've been fighting with gas bottles an icy front deck and the like.

However, I suspect that the number of deaths a year from falling in, is insufficient to justify making people fit ladders to their boats. Its still going to be a lot more dangerous to drive to work, than change a gas bottle, and most people don't think twice about jumping in the car. So I won't be bothering with a ladder.

 

However if I was to fit a ladder to my boat, I can't think of a worse place than the back to put it. If I fell in while underway, its quite possible that I would want to regain the boat, with the nose stuck in the bank, and the prop still running.

At that point, the back would be very low on my list of possible places to try and climb aboard.

 

TBH, if I fell in, 99% of the time, I would try and climb out onto the bank, rather than the boat. It is likely to be much easier, given the normal shape of boats, and the normal shape of the bank.

 

Given that most people fall in whilst moored up the engine wont be running and as i said before fit it where you like it doesnt have to be at the back. You may frequent muddy ditches but what if you fall in whilst on a big river how do you know there will be somewhere to get out?

 

Just to add no one is saying you have to go out and fit one.

[carlt]

Given that most people fall in whilst moored up the engine wont be running and as i said before fit it where you like it doesnt have to be at the back. You may frequent muddy ditches but what if you fall in whilst on a big river how do you know there will be somewhere to get out?

Whenever I took my narrowboat on a river I took the necessary precautions. Fitting a ladder isn't one of them.

 

 

Just to add no one is saying you have to go out and fit one.

And the fact is, practically no'one will go out and fit one, rather proving my point.

[Naughty Cal]

You are talking about a completely different thing.

 

If I fall of a boat, underway, on a canal, the last thing I'll be doing is swimming towards the boat.

 

9 times out of 10 I'll be standing up and wading to the bank, well away from the prop.

 

Boats that are designed to go to sea have different mob requirements. You need to get back on the boat because you probably won't be making it to shore.

 

As to lifeboats, it depends on the risk. The vast majority of coastal leisure boats don't have them, because they are expensive, rarely used and there is nowhere practical to fit them so it is a decision that every boat owner makes, depending on his circumstances.

 

If you're talking about the RNLI well you make a personal decision, whether to contribute, or not.

 

We do contribute to the RNLI as im sure every boat owner using the sea does.

[alan_fincher]

Given that most people fall in whilst moored...........................................................

Interesting assumption, but not my experience of canal boating.

 

I've seen many people go off the boat when fully underway, (one of our sons managed it twice, as did my first wife), or slip on dodgy banks when lock wheeling ahead between locks, (other son, that time!).

 

We saw a couple of hire boaters go off the boat into locks on our big summer trip too.

 

I don't think we've had anyone off the boat whilst tied up though.

 

Perhaps things happen differently for other people ?

[Glennbrown]

In my travels I have seen many dead animals -sheep, deer, cats rabbits which have fallen in the cut.

My next door neighbour recently drowned after drinking and trying to get back in his boat!

The steel piled banks can make it near impossible to get out of the canal combine that cold water and let say the dark

even for a very fit person!

 

I strongly believe every boat should have better provision to be able to get back onboard

and needs better clarification by the rcd

[Naughty Cal]

Whenever I took my narrowboat on a river I took the necessary precautions. Fitting a ladder isn't one of them.

 

 

 

And the fact is, practically no'one will go out and fit one, rather proving my point.

 

And the people that do?

 

I personally couldnt give a damn if nobody fits one. I answered the question raised and i can rest assured that i have made people aware of a piece of safety equipment which is avaliable.

 

I know that if i am unlucky enough to fall in (quite how i would fall in out of our boat whilst underway i dont know) that i have an easy route out of the water. And given that we dont tend to use muddy puddles much its nice to know we have a route out should we need it.

 

Interesting assumption, but not my experience of canal boating.

 

I've seen many people go off the boat when fully underway, (one of our sons managed it twice, as did my first wife), or slip on dodgy banks when lock wheeling ahead between locks, (other son, that time!).

 

We saw a couple of hire boaters go off the boat into locks on our big summer trip too.

 

I don't think we've had anyone off the boat whilst tied up though.

 

Perhaps things happen differently for other people ?

 

Maybe i should have made that mooring and manouvering.

 

Thinking about that though narrowboaters probably have more chance of falling off whilst underway than cruiser owners given the driving positions.

[carlt]

I strongly believe every boat should have better provision to be able to get back onboard

and needs better clarification by the rcd

The number of (human) deaths, through failing to get back aboard, does not justify a fundamental design change.

 

When the first person dies, because they tripped over their safety ladder and banged their head on a mooring bollard, will you be calling for them to be banned?

 

Far less pedestrians will die, if every car is fitted with giant sponge bumpers. Should all cars be converted immediately? It would be a greater lifesaver than ladders.