Any opinions on Wilderness boats

[Madmark62]

I saw one of these today and they look really lovely, I like the idea that you can just lhitch up and away you go to where ever you fancy in the Country, without taking weeks to travel there by Canal. Therefore allowing you to see more of the canal network than you are otherwise able to, unless you are a CC`er that is.

Are they any good? I know they have outboard engines and are fibreglass shells, but they do look like a mini narrowbaot.

[ditchcrawler]

I saw one of these today and they look really lovely, I like the idea that you can just lhitch up and away you go to where ever you fancy in the Country, without taking weeks to travel there by Canal. Therefore allowing you to see more of the canal network than you are otherwise able to, unless you are a CC`er that is.

Are they any good? I know they have outboard engines and are fibreglass shells, but they do look like a mini narrowbaot.

You need a good size car to tow them

[Madmark62]

Are they very heavy then? I have a Renault Espace turbo diesel and a Rover 420 turbo diesel , could I tow one with these?

[haggis]

The Wilderness owners have a web site at http://www.wilderness.org.uk/ where you can find out more about the boats

 

haggis

[ditchcrawler]

Are they very heavy then? I have a Renault Espace turbo diesel and a Rover 420 turbo diesel , could I tow one with these?

Sorry I have no idea what the towing capacity of the cars you have are.

[alan_fincher]

Yes, I agree with Haggis, the Wilderness Owners Club web-site is a good starting point for information.

 

http://www.wilderness.org.uk/

 

There was a review of the new 23 foot Wilderness Beaver in the October 2008 Waterways World.

 

That says.....

 

The all-up weight of the trailer and boat with normal personal kit is around 2000kg so it is well beyond the scope of the family car. The most suitable towing vehicles are medium to large 4x4s like the Land Rover Discovery or Mitsubishi Shogun.

 

I believe older ones were not quite as heavy as this latest build, so something a bit smaller might tow them, (but don't know details).

 

The one reviewed was £38,500, pls another £4000 for the trailer You could buy a very nice second hand steel narrow boat for that.

[Madmark62]

A bit expensive then eh????

 

I did not think they would be so expensive, better get saving again

 

edited to add

 

Thanks for all the replies

Edited January 29, 2009 by Madmark62

[Neil TNC]

I saw one of these today and they look really lovely, I like the idea that you can just lhitch up and away you go to where ever you fancy in the Country, without taking weeks to travel there by Canal. Therefore allowing you to see more of the canal network than you are otherwise able to, unless you are a CC`er that is.

Are they any good? I know they have outboard engines and are fibreglass shells, but they do look like a mini narrowbaot.

 

I can't comment on the trailing bit...we have more luck with a 58ft narrowboat.

 

The best place to get a SH one is straight through Ian Graham, Wilderness Boats (the designer and old manufacturer)

Wilderness Boats

Unit M

Chelworth

Malmesbury

Wiltshire

SN16 9SG

Tel: 01666 577773 Mobile 07973 815920

 

Expect to pay around 12 grand for a decent Beaver with trailer.

 

Some of the self fit out ones have more room for a couple than the traditional 4 berth jobbies

Mrs TNC's Mini Me can be seen at the end of this page

http://www.tuesdaynightclub.co.uk/TourMM_0...7MMBristol.html

They fairly whiz along and being only 8" draught hardly cause any bow wave.

You will need a 4x4 (or a Transit van) to pull the trailer, something thay will tow 2000Kg, so that rules out a Freelander or a Nissan X-Trail. Landy, Deaf-ender or Range Rover would fit the bill. A lot of Wildernii owners use Izuzu Troopers.

Once you have one you can join the very friendly and (even by TNC standards) intrepid Wilderness Boat Owners Club

http://www.wilderness.org.uk/

 

If I *ever* get a barge, then Mrs TNC's could well be for sale....along with the KIA Sorrento! ;-)

[Graham Davis]

Are they very heavy then? I have a Renault Espace turbo diesel and a Rover 420 turbo diesel , could I tow one with these?

 

 

No, you ara really looking at something the size of a Land Rover 110, Discovery, Range Rover, or Nissan Patrol.

[Madmark62]

Thanks for all the replies.

[Justin Smith]

We are thinking (in the long term....) about the practicalities of boat ownership and have concluded that a trailboat might make more sense.

The thing is we don`t really want a huge 4WD as our everyday transport just so we can use it to tow the boat around every now and again !

When they say that the towing limit of a Suzuki Jimny is 1300Kg what does that actually mean ?

Is it a legal thing, a traction problem or a braking problem ? If it`s the latter, surely the trailer is braked anyway ?

[Barry]

It's an interesting idea

 

What intrigues me though is where on the network are the slipways to allow you to get your trailable boat onto the canal.

[Graham Davis]

Towing law.....a minefield of confusion and misunderstanding.

 

Firstly I'm going to presume you passed your test prior to 1997.

 

All vehicles state maximum towing capacities. This is specified by the manufacturer and in general is what they think that vehicle can safely stop and restart on a 1:8 hill. One limit is for unbraked trailers and never seems to be above 750kg, the other is for braked trailers.If you exceed these figures you are breaking the Law, and it could lead to prosecution under several Laws, from invalid insurance to loading regulations. So in the case of your Suzuki, if you tow more than 1300kg you are illegal.

 

There is further confusion because the likes of the Caravan Club "suggest" that you do not exceed 85% of the actual stated gross weight of your vehicle, which can be a lot less than the actual stated weight above. This "ruling" is mostly to do with the stability of both the trailer and tug.

 

Some vehicles, like LR Defenders, actually have a max stated towing capacity well in excess of their actual gross weight, but personally I have found that this is something you would want to do for long distances.

 

It is also illegal to tow a trailer that is plated with a total max weight capacity that is greater than the max your vehicle is plated to. So if you towed a trailer that was plated as 2000kg by your Suzuki you would be illegal.

 

As I said, confusing!!

Edited September 12, 2010 by Graham Davis

[carlt]

It's an interesting idea

 

What intrigues me though is where on the network are the slipways to allow you to get your trailable boat onto the canal.

Carry it about on a flat bed Ford Cargo, with hiab.

 

You can crane it in off any bridge, then

[MoominPapa]

.... and people who passed a car driving test more recently have much more restrictive rules for towing unless they pass a supplementary test.

 

No. 1 daughter passed her test recently and it was interesting comparing the vehicle categories on her license and mine. I had never realised that I was licensed to drive a road-roller lighter than 11.9 tons (not steam powered).

 

MP.

[Justin Smith]

Towing law.....a minefield of confusion and misunderstanding.

 

Firstly I'm going to presume you passed your test prior to 1997.

 

All vehicles state maximum towing capacities. This is specified by the manufacturer and in general is what they think that vehicle can safely stop and restart on a 1:8 hill. One limit is for unbraked trailers and never seems to be above 750kg, the other is for braked trailers.If you exceed these figures you are breaking the Law, and it could lead to prosecution under several Laws, from invalid insurance to loading regulations. So in the case of your Suzuki, if you tow more than 1300kg you are illegal.

 

There is further confusion because the likes of the Caravan Club "suggest" that you do not exceed 85% of the actual stated kerb side weight of your vehicle, which can be a lot less than the actual stated weight above. This "ruling" is mostly to do with the stability of both the trailer and tug.

 

Some vehicles, like LR Defenders, actually have a max stated towing capacity well in excess of their actual kerb weight, but personally I have found that this is something you would want to do for long distances.

 

It is also illegal to tow a trailer that is plated with a total max weight capacity that is greater than the max your vehicle is plated to. So if you towed a trailer that was plated as 2000kg by your Suzuki you would be illegal.

 

As I said, confusing!!

 

So is it illegal due to braking issues ?

Just as a matter of theoretical interest, if one could tow an air braked trailer (i.e. not with "run on" brakes) would the limits still be the same ?

I`m just thinking about artics, with them the trailer weighs far more than the tractor unit.

[Graham Davis]

So is it illegal due to braking issues ?

Just as a matter of theoretical interest, if one could tow an air braked trailer (i.e. not with "run on" brakes) would the limits still be the same ?

I`m just thinking about artics, with them the trailer weighs far more than the tractor unit.

 

Nothing to do with braking issues, but with what the vehicle manufacturer registers the limits for that particular vehicle. In fact it is more to do with the ability to restart on a hill with a full load.

 

In respect of a car/van and trailer it doesn't matter what braking system is used; if the trailer weight exceeds the manufacturers limits you can't do it. Which is also why you will find that most artic tractor units are rated at something like 45 tonnes.

 

And before you ask, no you can't get your vehicle rerated without major expense and testing!

[Athy]

How would I find out this legal maximum towing weight? We recently bought a Subaru Forester which is fitted with a towing hook and Mrs. Athy has spoken of getting a trailer - what restrictions apply? She passed her test about 1980 by the way.

[carlt]

How would I find out this legal maximum towing weight? We recently bought a Subaru Forester which is fitted with a towing hook and Mrs. Athy has spoken of getting a trailer - what restrictions apply? She passed her test about 1980 by the way.

Let me Google that for you

 

and, more specifically

 

LMGTFY

Edited September 12, 2010 by carlt

[Graham Davis]

How would I find out this legal maximum towing weight? We recently bought a Subaru Forester which is fitted with a towing hook and Mrs. Athy has spoken of getting a trailer - what restrictions apply? She passed her test about 1980 by the way.

 

The limits will be in the Handbook, plus will be on the VIN plate, wherever that is on your car. Being as she passed her test prior to 97 you shouldn't have too many problems.

 

This might help, but it might not be your year model;

http://www.carpages.co.uk/guide/subaru/subaru-forester-2.0-x-dimensions.asp

Edited September 12, 2010 by Graham Davis

[Justin Smith]

What would be the smallest most economical car that could legally tow a Wilderness Beaver 23 ? I think the all up weight of the latter (including the trailer) is 2000Kg.

[Graham Davis]

I doubt you will find a car suitable. It would have to have a gross weight of around 2.5 tonnes, with a towing capacity of 2 tonnes minimum, and probably more.

You really are looking at LR Defenders (90 or 110), Discovery, Isuzu Trooper, Nissan Patrol type vehicles. It would be beyond most of the more modern Jap Twin-Cab pick-ups.

 

I have tried going through the Wilderness Boats web links posted earlier but can't find any weights listed, so you really would need to know the actual weight of a particular boat and trailer first.

 

We saw a few of these boats when we were out earlier in the year and I quite like them, although SWMBO wasn't so sure.

[Justin Smith]

I doubt you will find a car suitable. It would have to have a gross weight of around 2.5 tonnes, with a towing capacity of 2 tonnes minimum, and probably more.

You really are looking at LR Defenders (90 or 110), Discovery, Isuzu Trooper, Nissan Patrol type vehicles. It would be beyond most of the more modern Jap Twin-Cab pick-ups.

 

I have tried going through the Wilderness Boats web links posted earlier but can't find any weights listed, so you really would need to know the actual weight of a particular boat and trailer first.

 

We saw a few of these boats when we were out earlier in the year and I quite like them, although SWMBO wasn't so sure.

 

I think a Land Rover Freelander is rated at 2000Kg towing weight, but they`re hardly cheap or economical, and did I hear something about suspect reliability ? The thing is that if one ends up having to buy a much bigger car (more expensive to purchase and run) then the economics/practicality of trailboating starts to take a dive. For example, I don`t believe in spending much on a car, my present vehicle is a 13yr old Escort. It costs me virtually nothing in depreciation, is pretty reliable and reasonably economical, and it`s fine, though the rust will get it before too long ! But if I have to spend an extra £2000 per year running a big 4WD then one could hire a boat for a couple of weeks just with that extra amount.

Edited September 12, 2010 by Justin Smith

[mokjumbo]

Are they very heavy then? I have a Renault Espace turbo diesel and a Rover 420 turbo diesel , could I tow one with these?

Hi,I`ve got a Caraboat and tow it with an Espace with ease.Look at the caraboat club website if interested(www.caraboat.com)hope this is of use.

[Neil TNC]

I think a Land Rover Freelander is rated at 2000Kg towing weight, but they`re hardly cheap or economical, and did I hear something about suspect reliability ? The thing is that if one ends up having to buy a much bigger car (more expensive to purchase and run) then the economics/practicality of trailboating starts to take a dive. For example, I don`t believe in spending much on a car, my present vehicle is a 13yr old Escort. It costs me virtually nothing in depreciation, is pretty reliable and reasonably economical, and it`s fine, though the rust will get it before too long ! But if I have to spend an extra £2000 per year running a big 4WD then one could hire a boat for a couple of weeks just with that extra amount.

 

AFAIK a Wilderness Beaver 23 + trailer will just come in over the magic 2000Kg, obviously it will depend upon the fit out and equipment / junk on board.

Ian Graham ("Noah", designer and original builder of Wilderness boats), certainly thought that Mrs TNC's Beaver 23 would be just over 2000Kg, she never got around to having the trailer + boat weighed at our Local Authorities public weighbridge, at the local dump.

If you want to tow en France, the Frencies get very touchy about plated weights for the trailer and towing capacity of the tow vehicle, especially as most of the Wilderness crowd that go to France, come back with the boat loaded with wine!

After the demise of my son's Disco, we looked into 4x4's and concluded a Freelander or Nissan X-Trail would not be up to the job. We eventually went for a KIA Sorento.

Ian Graham swears blind by his ancient Izuzu Trooper, a half decent "R" reg one came up for sale for around £2000 through the WBOC a while back.

Mrs TNC has only just sold her Wilderness Beaver 23 "Mini Me", through Ian Graham.

http://www.wildernessboats.com/

The new Wilderness boats are made and sold through a new company

http://www.wildernesstrailboats.co.uk/