Frozen fish

[NB Alnwick]

Went to check on our house today - the heating had been left on the frost protection setting and had worked fine but it didn't help the goldfish in the garden pond - several inches of ice on the top and half of the fish look frozen (or suffocated) in the ice - spent several hours trying to make a hole in the ice with kettles of water but couldn't make much progress. I just hope there are a few still alive deep down - it's three feet deep in the middle. The pond is in a sheltered spot and we have not had a problem before with it freezing at all.

 

I originally posted the above in another thread but that event and what subsequently happened deserve further exploration. When I visited the house again this morning the pond had partially thawed and all the fish except one appear to be alive! The unfortunate one that died appears to have leapt out of the hole in the ice and consequently became stranded above it - the others, including a large Koi that I clearly saw 'floating' on its side as if dead and that appeared to be frozen into the ice almost six inches thick, all appear to be swimming, albeit very slowly, in the deeper water.

 

Back at the boat, I can now see several largish Carp or Bream similarly on their side and not moving, as if dead, near the surface - just under, or possibly partially in, the ice. Will they also be able to thaw out and return to normal when the ice thaws?

[denboy]

As a rule no harm will come to them the important thing is not to feed them as if it freezes again there digestive system shuts down and the food rots in there gut

when the temperature drops below around 50 they go into an almost hibernation mode and there metabolism slows to almost nothing hence why they seem to be just floating about

[grahoom]

surely, because fish are cold blooded, if the temperature drops to below zero (stuck in the ice) then they will hibernate? if that's the case then the fish will probably survive... Although I am no expert on the hibernation of fishes.

[wonderdust]

Here is a good article about the problems of frozen ponds click

 

Try a couple of tennis balls in the pond to allow the gasses to escape.

Edited January 9, 2009 by wonderdust

[RLWP]

Isn't the non-frozen fish miracle because of one of the strange properties of water. If I remember my "O" level physics, at near zero centigrade the density of water reduces, so the ice is on the top, +1 below that, +2 below that again and so on to about +4c. So the bottom of the pond is warmer than the top.

 

Richard

[grahoom]

Isn't the non-frozen fish miracle because of one of the strange properties of water. If I remember my "O" level physics, at near zero centigrade the density of water reduces, so the ice is on the top, +1 below that, +2 below that again and so on to about +4c. So the bottom of the pond is warmer than the top.

 

Richard

 

including a large Koi that I clearly saw 'floating' on its side as if dead and that appeared to be frozen into the ice almost six inches thick

 

doesn't account for this poor fellow who was frozen into the ice.... hibernation I tell ya!

[carlt]

Isn't the non-frozen fish miracle because of one of the strange properties of water. If I remember my "O" level physics, at near zero centigrade the density of water reduces, so the ice is on the top, +1 below that, +2 below that again and so on to about +4c. So the bottom of the pond is warmer than the top.

 

Richard

Yes

 

I was once told that this was absolute proof that there's a god.

 

If he'd allowed the usual behaviour of substances, to apply to water then life on Earth could not exist.

[jeb]

Isn't the non-frozen fish miracle because of one of the strange properties of water. If I remember my "O" level physics, at near zero centigrade the density of water reduces, so the ice is on the top, +1 below that, +2 below that again and so on to about +4c. So the bottom of the pond is warmer than the top.

 

Richard

 

I believe its called a thermocline where the dropping temperature causes the warm top layer to sink to the bottom. The interesting part is where it takes all the water borne particles with it hence the water becoming gin clear.

[ChrisPy]

Yes

 

I was once told that this was absolute proof that there's a god.

 

If he'd allowed the usual behaviour of substances, to apply to water then life on Earth could not exist.

or:

 

Liquid water is densest, essentially 1.00 g/cm³, at 4 °C and becomes less dense as the water molecules begin to form the hexagonal crystals of ice as the temperature drops to 0 °C.

 

no god needed to complete the recipe.

[LEO]

I believe its called a thermocline where the dropping temperature causes the warm top layer to sink to the bottom. The interesting part is where it takes all the water borne particles with it hence the water becoming gin clear.

 

Hi,

This happens at Cowroast quite frequently (the pumping from the deep aquifers also helps) and it is amazing what can be fished out - someone beat me to a brass windlass a couple of years ago. It was fairly clear this morning, between the lock and the marina entrance.

Leo.

[denboy]

just thought of a trick to stop it freezing solid

next time it freezes put a hole in it tennis ball size and then siphon some water out to give approx an inch between ice and water creating a green house effect so the water beneath the ice will not get any thicker

[tillergirl]

Our ponds have been icing up over the last week or two. Ones a small pond near the patio and the goldfish are in there somewhere, it usually deices during the day, the other is a 3500 gallon koi pond and the ice on it has been well over an inch thick a few times lately. Looking through the ice they seem to be doing just the same as they do any other winter for the past 10 years, they just stick together in the middle moving very little and there are two or three that have always spent the winter on their sides and they've always been fine. They are in state of "suspended animation". They seem to come up in the spring considerably bigger than they went to the bottom on the pond anyway. I would'nt worry as long as they are fit and healthy they'll be fine. The tennis ball theory is fine providing you can get them out during the day. The ones we tried got fro2en in and couldnt be moved.

Edited January 9, 2009 by tillergirl

[twocvbloke]

Coldwater fish will usually be ok in reduced temperatures like this, as long as it's not a rapid drop then rise in temperature. But the food thing is correct, don't feed them for a while, otherwise they may end up suffering from Dropsy, which is a bacterial infection of the guts, which is extremely painful for the fish and would be a long and suffering life...

 

But as mentioned, the fish will just sit on the bottom, usually fairly dormant, and should survive the winter. As for the fish that was actually frozen in the ice, well, it's a case of wait and see, hopefully it will be fine, but keep an eye on it for a swollen abdomen...

 

Any more help, just pop over to The GAB who have more advice on fishies...

 

We have 3 "fancy goldfish" or Orandas here, and I personally wouldn't put them outside in a pond due to their poor genetic line, they may look nice, but they're easily susceptible to infections and injury due to the way they're bred...

[tillergirl]

You just got goldfish? Our goldfish seem to "disappear" over the winter, our koi are particularly stupid! Give them a nice sunny day (temps still very low) and they think "oh good sun" and start to come up to the surface. We lost two koi two years ago that came up too quick and because it was so cold their gill strings snapped and they drowned.

 

Checked our this morning as both ponds are iced over...........goldfish no where to be seen hiding in the plant roots no doubt the koi are all bunched up together just over the bottom drain. Only a little tail flick now and again lets you know they are still alive.

[Big Steve]

or:

 

Liquid water is densest, essentially 1.00 g/cm³, at 4 °C and becomes less dense as the water molecules begin to form the hexagonal crystals of ice as the temperature drops to 0 °C.

 

no god needed to complete the recipe.

 

I'm a heathen, but it is spooky that water is the only material to exhibit the tendency to expand on cooling.

 

You should never feed your fish in the winter. Unless you're one of the types who insist on cleaning your pond every week, have too many fish in it and hoover the bottom regularly.

 

you can't beat a natural pond where the fish look after themselves.

[tinca steve]

Big Steve, I love ponds / lakes / meres / reservoirs but when you have overloaded garden ponds you have to feed the little buggers in the spring /summer / autumn otherwise they go very skinny very quickly. I'm lucky in that my koi / tench pond has a filter system which is under my greenhouse bench so I have no trouble with mine freezing over but I do get a nice ice effect from the return pipe.