Plumbing

[Smelly]

Well, loads of time off and I thought it was time to refit the kitchen. It was a rush job in the first place and has needed doing. The woodwork's gone well but the plumbing hasn't. I'm using domestic compression type stuff such as this and have got to thinking it was a mistake as it's leaking badly.

 

Suggestions?

 

Best one so far is rip it out and start again with braided hose and hose spikes. Ohh I'm temtpted, however it'd be nice to have a working kitchen sink tomorrow. If I can facilitate some washing up it might stop SWMBO posting controversial posts as well.

 

Oh, happy new year!

[Justme]

Did you clean up the cut ends before trying to fit it all together?

 

Also dont push fit it you will always dislodge the seals. Assemble it bit by bit.

 

Failing that LOTS of quick set silicone sealer lol.

 

Justme

[alan_fincher]

The link you have posted shows fitments for waste pipes only ?

 

Is that what you meant ?

 

You have to work at making a waste pipe leak, surely, as it's under no pressure at all ?

 

Our waste pipes are currently in a reinforced hose, (the boat came that way), and as a result the internal bores are very small, (maybe 2 cm internal diameyer ??). That's not a problem on waste basin or shower, but, TBH, the kitchen sink is showing a tendency to block, and something wider bored would probably be better.

 

If you have big bore wastes as you have shown, what is used for a skin fitting on the outside of the boat, please ?

[Smelly]

The link you have posted shows fitments for waste pipes only ?

 

Is that what you meant ?

 

You have to work at making a waste pipe leak, surely, as it's under no pressure at all ?

 

Our waste pipes are currently in a reinforced hose, (the boat came that way), and as a result the internal bores are very small, (maybe 2 cm internal diameyer ??). That's not a problem on waste basin or shower, but, TBH, the kitchen sink is showing a tendency to block, and something wider bored would probably be better.

 

If you have big bore wastes as you have shown, what is used for a skin fitting on the outside of the boat, please ?

 

Yes it's just the waste that's leaking. It's the first time I've drifted away from the kind of system you describe on your boat. I didn't have to work on it leaking as, having put it together under t he advice of a plumber it just leaked, so I gave up and went for a pint.

 

I've had mixed advice since about using PTFE to wrap the rubber olives (sounds like waste of time; however...), nipping up the plastic collars with a tap wrench and the such like, so thought I'd sound it out. The main problem I seem to have is that where there's a bit of lateral pressure to the joint the seals don't cope which in my admittedly limited imagination seems consistent with using domestic kit on a boat.

 

As you say Alan, one of our principal drivers for the job is getting wider bores on the waste pipes to help stop blocking. Also the old, plastic, hose connections on the sink were rubbish and have sporadically leaked washing up water so needed replacing. Never mind hastily, errrmm "fitted" units and worktops that needed doing properly.

[Keeping Up]

I've had mixed advice since about using PTFE to wrap the rubber olives (sounds like waste of time; however...), nipping up the plastic collars with a tap wrench and the such like, so thought I'd sound it out. The main problem I seem to have is that where there's a bit of lateral pressure to the joint the seals don't cope which in my admittedly limited imagination seems consistent with using domestic kit on a boat.

I seriously doubt that either if those measures would have the desired effect.

 

Justme's tip of assembling it piece by piece, then screwing it all together, nearly always works for me. It is surprising how easily the seals can twist as you push the joint together, then un-twist as you pull it apart so that you can't see anything wrong.

Edited January 3, 2009 by Keeping Up

[johnjo]

I seriously doubt that either if those measures would have the desired effect.

 

Justme's tip of assembling it piece by piece, then screwing it all together, nearly always works for me. It is surprising how easily the seals can twist as you push the joint together, then un-twist as you pull it apart so that you can't see anything wrong.

 

Agreed!

 

Re: Pipe wrench, sure fire way to completely b*llox it up, same with the PTFE tape, neither are required.

 

Exactly where is it leaking?

[Smelly]

Agreed!

 

Re: Pipe wrench, sure fire way to completely b*llox it up, same with the PTFE tape, neither are required.

 

Exactly where is it leaking?

 

Well we've sink and drainer running into the same hull fitting. They run down from the plug, into the traps then out through two 40 to 32mm reducers into a pair of flex fittings, then teed into the skin fitting. It's mainly the reducers that are leaking.

 

Again I'll say that it seems where there's the slightest lateral pressure on the joint that's where it's worst.

 

Back to the pub now, worry tomorrow!

[denboy]

put a little grease on the joints when you slide them together stops the seals from twisting

[Justme]

Also make sure you have the correct sizes as some are very similar but just diff enough to leak (best to use the same brand & size for it all). Especialy when using compresion fittings & glued type pipe or is it the other way round lol). Oh & glued pipe never seems to give problems once installed but is a bugger to work on later if it blocks up & you cant clear it without taking it apart.

 

Justme

[David Schweizer]

If the connections are leaking you are probably using pipe which is incompatible with the fittings. Although the dimensions of pipe from different maufacturers does differ slightly, there is not usually a problem. However pipe designed for solvent glued connections is sufficiently smaller for leaks to occur if used with compression fittings.

 

There are two solutions. either seek out some heavier rubber compression rings which may take up the difference in pipe size, or get get some pipe which is designed to be used with compression fittings. All the fittings on my boat ( and house) are this type and I have no leaks.

 

One thing puzzles me when you talk about lateral pressure, The fitting you have shown is a telescopic swivel P trap which is designed specifically to allow for lateral adjustment, but you need to assemble everything loose, and then tighten up. Firm hand pressure shoud be sufficient.

Edited January 4, 2009 by David Schweizer

[david and julie]

If the connections are leaking you are probably using pipe which is incompatible with the fittings. Although the dimensions of pipe from different maufacturers does differ slightly, there is not usually a problem. However pipe designed for solvent glued connections is sufficiently smaller for leaks to occur if used with compression fittings.

I would say this is almost certainly the problem. In DIY outlets the racks for solvent weld and pushfit fittings are invariably next to each other and people do throw parts back in the wrong place.

 

Why have traps on a boat anyway? traps on house sinks exist to stop smells which just don't exist on a boat, they're an unnecessary complication - unless your frightened of spiders.

[MikeV]

I've used a waste compression joint from B&Q to replace a small section of hose in my vacuflush system which has to stand the tank vacuum. It's holding so far, so while not designed for purpose they can provide a very good seal.

 

It was quick and easy to fit, unlike the piece of saniation hose with jubilee clips it replaced which was a real b%gg$r to take apart and put back together. I'm not sure how long it will last, but at just over £1 to buy, I carry a spare!

[Bagpuss]

Why have traps on a boat anyway? traps on house sinks exist to stop smells which just don't exist on a boat, they're an unnecessary complication - unless your frightened of spiders.

 

Yep terrified.. Somehow I never see a spider on the boat tho.. the webs must appear by magic.

[Smelly]

I would say this is almost certainly the problem. In DIY outlets the racks for solvent weld and pushfit fittings are invariably next to each other and people do throw parts back in the wrong place.

 

Why have traps on a boat anyway? traps on house sinks exist to stop smells which just don't exist on a boat, they're an unnecessary complication - unless your frightened of spiders.

 

Well the bits that are leaking are where I've used the spare lengths of tube from the extending traps shown in the links. The tube's come from one shop whereas all the fittings are from screwfix. I think that's my problem. I'm going to finish the cabinets today and hope I've time for a jaunt to screwfix this evening and I'll have another go at it.

 

I'd not thought about the traps thing until yesterday when a friend said exactly the same thing as you D&J but now I've started I wonder whether I'll be able to finish it without completely stripping it down.

[David Schweizer]

I would say this is almost certainly the problem. In DIY outlets the racks for solvent weld and pushfit fittings are invariably next to each other and people do throw parts back in the wrong place.

 

Why have traps on a boat anyway? traps on house sinks exist to stop smells which just don't exist on a boat, they're an unnecessary complication - unless your frightened of spiders.

I agree that when fitting a boat for the first time Traps should be uneccessary if you get your measurements correct. But when re-fitting, you can almost guarantee that nothing will line up correctly. This is where the Telescopic Swivel P Trap comes in very handy, as they afford about 2" adjustment either side of central, and up to 6" adjustment vertically.

 

 

 

Well the bits that are leaking are where I've used the spare lengths of tube from the extending traps shown in the links. The tube's come from one shop whereas all the fittings are from screwfix. I think that's my problem. I'm going to finish the cabinets today and hope I've time for a jaunt to screwfix this evening and I'll have another go at it.

 

I'd not thought about the traps thing until yesterday when a friend said exactly the same thing as you D&J but now I've started I wonder whether I'll be able to finish it without completely stripping it down.

If you have used the telescopic extension as part of the fitted system it will leak, as it uses a different (quite smaller) diameter of pipe.

Edited January 4, 2009 by David Schweizer

[Smelly]

If you have used the telescopic extension as part of the fitted system it will leak, as it uses a different (quite smaller) diameter of pipe.

 

And hence I fall to one of the drawbacks to shopping at Screwfix, I only need about 6 inches of pipe but they'll only sell it to me in 30m packs...

 

Still thank you all for the advice, however having had a shuftie at a friend's boat I can rebuild on a different scheme that'll do away with all the problems (he hopes) for about a tenner's worth of fittings. Dan's off to Screwfix tomorrow after work... again!

[pagan witch]

Why have traps on a boat ?

 

Simple - it stops draughts.

 

Not bothered by the spiders we have a few 'pets' around the boat and so long as the webs don't start taking over the world we leave them be. Cheaper than fly spray an better too.

[David Schweizer]

And hence I fall to one of the drawbacks to shopping at Screwfix, I only need about 6 inches of pipe but they'll only sell it to me in 30m packs...

 

Still thank you all for the advice, however having had a shuftie at a friend's boat I can rebuild on a different scheme that'll do away with all the problems (he hopes) for about a tenner's worth of fittings. Dan's off to Screwfix tomorrow after work... again!

Forget Screwfix, Pop down to your local DIY barn and buy one length of compression fitting pipe, it will only cost a couple of quid. You can usually tell the difference between the two types, the compression type has a matt finish wheras the Solvent weld type is usually much smoother, almost shiney.

[AlanH]

Why have traps on a boat ?

 

Simple - it stops draughts.

 

Not bothered by the spiders we have a few 'pets' around the boat and so long as the webs don't start taking over the world we leave them be. Cheaper than fly spray an better too.

With ventilation required all over the boat the draught from a plug hole is negligible. If you are really worried about that then you can always put the plug in the hole.

[John Orentas]

I found that fitting traps into the drains gave a few unexpected advantages.. The ones I bought from B&Q were very well made and surprisingly didn't eat into the fall dimensions at all, they also added a great deal of flexibility into the system in that perfect measuring was not required.

 

Yes they also give all the other features mentioned.

[Smelly]

Forget Screwfix, Pop down to your local DIY barn and buy one length of compression fitting pipe, it will only cost a couple of quid. You can usually tell the difference between the two types, the compression type has a matt finish wheras the Solvent weld type is usually much smoother, almost shiney.

 

the offside of refitting is that it'll be much neater than what's in place at the minute, plus I can make it to Screwfix after work but will struggle to get to a different shop.

 

Interesting about the solvent pipe, the 32mm stuff I bought is rather shiny and is leaking as well...

[canalchris]

last year i had a leaking calorifier, having contacted and been frigthened witless by a boat fitter i decided to have a go myself, if i learned one important lesson its this ,always use the correct tool for the job!!,compression fittings are brilliant and foolproof IF you cut the ends absolutely at 90degrees, special cutters are available from plumbing suppliers; PS sorry seem to have got wrong end of stick, can only suggest that you may be tightening up the joints too much and twisting the rubber seals.good luck.

Edited January 19, 2009 by canalchris