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Communication Afloat – is it “Good to Talk”?


RobinR

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Sounds interesting - what make and model is that set ?

 

Nick

Hi Nick it was this site

 

The top paragraph bit I thought sounded interesting,

"If you are looking for a robust unit with the latest features, consider the Icom IC-M87, which is waterproof to IPX7 (1 m for 30 min) with a Li-ion 15-h battery, tri-channel scanning and a very handy feature, it is switchable to PMR to avoid congestion on the marine channels."

 

Needless to say I am not connected to the site or Icom for that matter.

Edited by Dyad
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Hi Nick it was this site

 

The top paragraph bit I thought sounded interesting,

"If you are looking for a robust unit with the latest features, consider the Icom IC-M87, which is waterproof to IPX7 (1 m for 30 min) with a Li-ion 15-h battery, tri-channel scanning and a very handy feature, it is switchable to PMR to avoid congestion on the marine channels."

 

Needless to say I am not connected to the site or Icom for that matter.

I may be missing something, but although it says that, if you pull up the details of that transceiver, it seems to be switchable to PBR (Private Business Radio), rather than PMR (Private Mobile Radio).

 

PBR licences were a very complex area, but I think they are rationalising them. None the less, they are still a "pay for" item, I think, rather than PMR which is free.

 

PBR and PMR are quite different, PBR being on VHF frequencies just above the amateur 2 metre band, I think, (you used to be able to snoop police broadcasts there, on a suitably opened up amateur rig), whereas PMR is on UHF, in the same kind of range as amateur 70 cms.

 

I hope I've not misread, but the information on the summary page on that site looks out of step with that recorded for the actual set. Or am I wrong ?

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So, for those of us that are not enlightened, what can/can't you do with VHF, who uses them, what channels are there, I'm guessing there is an emergency one and whats ch80?

 

Not knowing alot (well nothing actually) about VHF I thought I'd have a google about it. The first site I came to had a hand held set which was switchable to PMR, that sounds like a good idea, what do you reckon?

 

Hi Dyad,

 

VHF is allocated the marine radio frequency between 156.000Mhz and 174.000 Mhz that is standard for all seagoing boats. I covers 59 channels which are basically working channels with specific distress frequencies. Channel 16 is the most used channel and is set aside specifically for emergency and first contact use. It is the channel that is monitored constantly, although most rescue and emergency monitoring is primarily carried out via channel 70 which is a data channel for data burst emergency messages from DSC equipment and must not be used for voice. Ch 13 is for inter-ship bridge to bridge communication for navigation and safety messages. Ch 6, 8, 72 and 77 are for allocated intership working. Ch 9 harbour pilots, Ch10 pollution control and weather broadcasts. Ch 11, 12, 14 normally port operations with local variations.

Ch 15, 17, 69 for ship movements. Ch 67 is the small ship safety channel used by HM coastguard. Channel 80 is a duplex channel used by marinas. Channels M & M2 are used by yacht clubs and race controls in the UK only. Any other channels are not useable without a specialised marine licence. There are no allocated chat channels.

 

The licence itself is free, but a certificate of competence is required, which involves a day course and exam.

 

As you can see, there is not a lot of scope for using VHF legally on inland waterways, although channel 16 is used on tidal ways and 80 could be used for marinas. Illegal use can and does lead to confiscation of equipment and fines of up to £2000 I believe.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Roger

Edited by Roger Gunkel
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I think there is scope for using VHF on inland waterways, if people want to.

 

It depends what it is to be used for.

 

You can legitimately use VHF for "ships business".

 

Calling a boat ahead of you and asking them to leave a gate open for you or to tell them not to wait for you at the lock because you are mooring

is perfectly permissible.

 

Calling up your friend and asking them what they're wearing today, is not.

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I think there is scope for using VHF on inland waterways, if people want to.

 

It depends what it is to be used for.

 

You can legitimately use VHF for "ships business".

 

Calling a boat ahead of you and asking them to leave a gate open for you or to tell them not to wait for you at the lock because you are mooring

is perfectly permissible.

 

Calling up your friend and asking them what they're wearing today, is not.

 

You are absolutely right Mark, but I think the problem is likely to come when you allow people to decide what is 'ships business'. I think at sea, there is a large amount of commercial useage and private boaters tend to be more safety concious. Ships business is probably easily defined. On the inland waterways where a great many boaters are inexperienced and largely leisure users, there is more scope for not appreciating the dangers of channel overcrowding or even the need for a licence and 'ship's business' can quickly deteriorate to taking the dog for a walk, picking up a new box of teabags, or chatting to your mate for an hour about the difficulties you had in reversing for the first time.

 

I do think the number of sensible users would be seriously outweighed by the idiots if it became generally available and maybe CB and PMR would be better used, leaving VHF for more serious applications and areas.

 

You only have to look at the way the 999 service is being abused to appreciate the number of fools there are :lol: Giving people the benefit of the doubt with commonsense, is, in my experience, not always the wise option.

 

Purely my opinion though,

 

Roger

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Hi Dyad,

 

VHF is allocated the marine radio frequency between 156.000Mhz and 174.000 Mhz that is standard for all seagoing boats. I covers 59 channels which are basically working channels with specific distress frequencies. Channel 16 is the most used channel and is set aside specifically for emergency and first contact use. It is the channel that is monitored constantly, although most rescue and emergency monitoring is primarily carried out via channel 70 which is a data channel for data burst emergency messages from DSC equipment and must not be used for voice. Ch 13 is for inter-ship bridge to bridge communication for navigation and safety messages. Ch 6, 8, 72 and 77 are for allocated intership working. Ch 9 harbour pilots, Ch10 pollution control and weather broadcasts. Ch 11, 12, 14 normally port operations with local variations.

Ch 15, 17, 69 for ship movements. Ch 67 is the small ship safety channel used by HM coastguard. Channel 80 is a duplex channel used by marinas. Channels M & M2 are used by yacht clubs and race controls in the UK only. Any other channels are not useable without a specialised marine licence. There are no allocated chat channels.

 

The licence itself is free, but a certificate of competence is required, which involves a day course and exam.

 

As you can see, there is not a lot of scope for using VHF legally on inland waterways, although channel 16 is used on tidal ways and 80 could be used for marinas. Illegal use can and does lead to confiscation of equipment and fines of up to £2000 I believe.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Roger

 

Hi Roger

 

Yes that was very informative, thank you.

 

In a Utopian world radios could be used by all boaters in a structured way like the emergency services, ATC, the army etc. but as you say, too many would just use it for "put the kettle on" type messages. Of course some might argue that it is a leisure pursuit and not the place for formal communication protocols.

 

Personally I would love to be able to announce my approach to a lock and someone to call back and say "join the queue" for example.

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Thanks for the link for the "dual purpose" VHF radio... it seems it can do Marine band and also frequencies above 144 or thereabouts...

 

This would then allow suitably licensed Radio Amateurs use of their 2 metre band as well as the marine band, which would be useful for amateurs afloat. It may also permit use of a "General Service" frequency, allowing those without an amateur licence to use it.

 

A note on terminology for those following this thread....

 

" VHF " is the term given for all frequencies between 30 and 300 MHz - i.e. to say the "marine band or VHF use is possible" is incorrect, as Marine band ( the 156 - 174 allocation ) is VHF...

 

Currently researching this new General Service concept which is new to me... seems like a mildly regulated professional CB service to me,at the moment, at sensible parts of the spectrum and with sensible ( useful) power available.

 

Well done and thanks to Ofcom / whoever from me...

 

Nick

Edited by Nickhlx
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Here's a small tip for anyone fitting marine-band VHF to their boat. Most of the "white stick" aerials that are commonly available, are rather fragile and non-flexible so they tend to get snapped off by low bridges, trees, etc.

 

I use an amateur 2-metre band mobile whip, which has the advantage of being totally flexible and, to my surprise, of working far far better than the purpose-made aerials. All that's needed is to cut off about an inch and a half to "convert" them 2m to marine band. There is a good variety of clamps, mag-mounts, etc available for attaching them.

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Allan,

 

We bought a shortish VHF flexible mobile whip with a mag mount and just slap, well maybe not slap, gently place it, on the coachroof.

I think it was 3dBi gain.

 

Probably more than that ... maybe 0 dBd ? :lol:

 

Helicals have variously a "gain" between -6db and -20 db at VHF, so even a 1/4 wave will greatly improve matters.. and as for a 5/8 ths ... well, now you are talking !! :lol:

 

I have had 25 miles + with 1/2 a watt into a co-linear on the roof of the house, over average terrain which at UHF amazed me... and that's "nothing" to those who are "into these things"

 

 

Nick

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A lot of interesting info and points throughout this thread. VHF Marine Radio seems a non-starter due to restrictions and relatively few users as does Amateur Radio. This leaves 27MHz CB and 446 MHz PMR. 27MHz would probably be the best because both base units and hand helds are available and a wider range when a mobile aerial is used. Many amateurs have modified their transceivers following the extension of the 40 meter band - was 7.0 to 7.1Mhz now extended to 7.2MHz and in doing so now have continuous transmit ability from 1.8 to 30MHz which includes 27MHz! I'll continue with Amateur Radio which is my other man leisure interest and with 446MHz for galley to tiller and tiller to lock etc. Many thanks to all for a most enjoyable and informative "chat".

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  • 3 months later...
Here's a small tip for anyone fitting marine-band VHF to their boat. Most of the "white stick" aerials that are commonly available, are rather fragile and non-flexible so they tend to get snapped off by low bridges, trees, etc.

 

I use an amateur 2-metre band mobile whip, which has the advantage of being totally flexible and, to my surprise, of working far far better than the purpose-made aerials. All that's needed is to cut off about an inch and a half to "convert" them 2m to marine band. There is a good variety of clamps, mag-mounts, etc available for attaching them.

 

That depends how you fit them. Ours has had a few good hits on the bridges at Saxilby and the bridge over the marina entrance and has yet to come to any grief. It does have a nice stripe of green paint on the top edge now though. :lol:

 

We have found the VHF to be invaluable for contacting lock keepers and keeping an eye on commercial traffic movements on the rivers. That said i fail to see much use for it on the canals.

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That depends how you fit them. Ours has had a few good hits on the bridges at Saxilby and the bridge over the marina entrance and has yet to come to any grief. It does have a nice stripe of green paint on the top edge now though. :lol:

 

We have found the VHF to be invaluable for contacting lock keepers and keeping an eye on commercial traffic movements on the rivers. That said i fail to see much use for it on the canals.

I agree with you 100% there. We use it all the time on rivers, but only use PMR446 on the canals. Here is a picture showing us fully-equipped in river mode:

 

P1020508r.jpg

 

On rivers we tend to drink rose wine, whereas on the canal red wine or beer seem more appropriate.

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M1 is on channel 37 while M2 is on channel 80, we use M1 most of the time between the boat and the crew working ahead at locks etc. We can hear Liverpool coastguard on channel 16 load and clear on the Shroppie and other canals in the North West which is very handy if you have a problem and no mobile phone signal..! BW use channel 74 0n the Weaver and other rivers etc. If your ever on the Leeds & Liverpool around Skipton the big trip boats use M1 also.

Over and Out.

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Over and Out.

 

Not wishing to nit pick, but . . .

 

You can't be Over and Out. "Over" means Over to you to respond. "Out" means that as far as I'm concerned the communication between us has now concluded and the frequency is available to others to use if they wish.

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It looks like what I will do is when I come over from the states on vacation is bring my Icom 706 amateur rig with me.

 

This radio can cover (aside from H.F.) the 2 meter ham band and above to 148 MHZ, and also your 440 band + P.B.R. and P.M.R. If your wondering we have 144-148Mhz and 430-450 Mhz wide open for our ham bands. Therefore my radio covers them. This plus a 50 pound Marine VHF and I should be golden.

 

Another thought is that they do make mobile antennas with springs on the bottom, perfect for trees and bridges.

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It looks like what I will do is when I come over from the states on vacation is bring my Icom 706 amateur rig with me.

 

This radio can cover (aside from H.F.) the 2 meter ham band and above to 148 MHZ, and also your 440 band + P.B.R. and P.M.R. If your wondering we have 144-148Mhz and 430-450 Mhz wide open for our ham bands. Therefore my radio covers them. This plus a 50 pound Marine VHF and I should be golden.

 

Another thought is that they do make mobile antennas with springs on the bottom, perfect for trees and bridges.

 

Did you build it yourself? It's very heavy!!!!!

 

If your bringing your Icom with you, ensure you have the bill of purchase with you.

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Did you build it yourself? It's very heavy!!!!!

 

If your bringing your Icom with you, ensure you have the bill of purchase with you.

 

I was wondering if someone was going to comment on that, I am using an american keyboard that doesn't have a "Pound" key, and am to lazy to look up the HTML for it.

 

Good idea on bringing proof of purchase on the Icom.

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I am using an american keyboard that doesn't have a "Pound" key, and am to lazy to look up the HTML for it.

Further evidence that the "special relationship" is a one way street.

 

We respect the US enough to adorn our keyboards with a $ key but do they reciprocate??

 

Exactly! :lol:

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Further evidence that the "special relationship" is a one way street.

 

We respect the US enough to adorn our keyboards with a $ key but do they reciprocate??

 

Exactly! :lol:

 

And not a Euro sign :lol:

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I was wondering if someone was going to comment on that, I am using an american keyboard that doesn't have a "Pound" key, and am to lazy to look up the HTML for it.

 

Good idea on bringing proof of purchase on the Icom.

 

The accepted alternate is GBP

 

What do you think of the IC 7000?

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The accepted alternate is GBP

 

What do you think of the IC 7000?

 

Yeah, I probably should have thought of that.

 

As of the 7000, I have only used one once. It is almost exactly the same as my trusty 706 but with a color screen and a few extra menu items that I probably would never use. My only gripe against the radio was that its audio did not seem as "clean" as my 706, which of course can probably be fixed with an external speaker.

 

I can honestly say that if I was shopping for another "Do everything, but not everything well" style radio, I would definitely purchase the 7000.

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