Depreciation on second hand boat during current market

[Scotty D]

SO I'm sticking with the advice on this forum elsewhere and intend making silly offers here and there until I find myself a good deal.

 

I'll also maintain my boat to a reasonable standard and make it into a tank security wise over the next year once I get it.

 

In the current market conditions, how big a part will depreciation play in a boat already reasonably old?

 

Also how much do boat prices fluctuate according to the market??? I know there's BIG recessions coming next year??? Opinions please!?

 

All the best

 

Scotty

[Lady Muck]

SO I'm sticking with the advice on this forum elsewhere and intend making silly offers here and there until I find myself a good deal.

 

I'll also maintain my boat to a reasonable standard and make it into a tank security wise over the next year once I get it.

 

In the current market conditions, how big a part will depreciation play in a boat already reasonably old?

 

Also how much do boat prices fluctuate according to the market??? I know there's BIG recessions coming next year??? Opinions please!?

 

All the best

 

Scotty

 

I know I sound like a broken record but in London your best bet is to try and get a boat with a mooring. Go here or here, or sometimes there are boats with moorings on Apollo Duck, make sure to get it in writing from the marina operator that the mooring will be transferred to you, the new boat owner before you hand over any cash and be aware that most bw moorings cannot be transferred.

 

You say you only intend to live aboard for a couple of years then move abroad, it would be alot easier to sell the boat on if it has moorings, or you may even be able to rent it. I'm only saying this because off the top of my head I can think of at least half a dozen cc boaters that I know personally that are trying to sell their boats, some of whom are desperate to move, (pregnancy, job relocaction etc.) , but in London, if they don't come with moorings or aren't being given away at a low price, they can remain on the market for a very long time. Are you able to wait 6 months to 1 year or even longer to sell your boat? Also if you are looking at boats with moorings, you open yourself up to the possibility of getting marine finance, its not the best deal in the world, but if you aren't a home owner, a personal loan may not stretch very far or buy you much boat. It's an exciting decision to make to live on a boat, but try not to rush into it. It's worth being patient and seeing what boats come up - it took us about 6 months to find our boat and mooring. Also use this time to learn about boats (you are in the right place, which you probably guessed by now), have you driven one before? Narrowboats are quite easy to drive, but I'd advise anyone who wants to buy a boat, especially a widebeam or dutch barge etc. to get some training, for their own safety and other boaters around them. It's a lot more enjoyable if you know what you are doing.

Edited December 21, 2008 by Lady Muck

[Troll]

SO I'm sticking with the advice on this forum elsewhere and intend making silly offers here and there until I find myself a good deal.

 

I'll also maintain my boat to a reasonable standard and make it into a tank security wise over the next year once I get it.

 

In the current market conditions, how big a part will depreciation play in a boat already reasonably old?

 

Also how much do boat prices fluctuate according to the market??? I know there's BIG recessions coming next year??? Opinions please!?

 

All the best

 

Scotty

 

 

I see and its not here yet? Great news

 

Not sure if your buying or selling, but if your buying, you wont get a gift unless theres some one desperately in need of cash, and you find them

 

Most people will sit it out

[johnjo]

Could be a Double Edged Sword [steel or plastic] this recesssion as far as NB's are concerned.

 

Can't afford the mortgage on the house, lost the job, on the dole, could be they might decide nothing to lose buying an NB with what's left after selling house, so that NB's become more popular to live on and CC, NB prices go up.

 

Other side is that all those leisure NB's that were bought on the back of a house re-mortgage or cheap borrowing, are now a luxury that can no longer be afforded, so might be a load coming onto the market, NB prices go down.

 

Could be that between them, they balance NB prices and they stay steady!

 

Who knows?

Edited December 21, 2008 by johnjo

[steelaway]

SO I'm sticking with the advice on this forum elsewhere and intend making silly offers here and there until I find myself a good deal.

 

I'll also maintain my boat to a reasonable standard and make it into a tank security wise over the next year once I get it.

 

In the current market conditions, how big a part will depreciation play in a boat already reasonably old?

 

Also how much do boat prices fluctuate according to the market??? I know there's BIG recessions coming next year??? Opinions please!?

 

All the best

 

Scotty

 

 

If you are thinking of buying a boat, you should not be concerned about depreciation

Try and find a good deal by all means but you will discover there are many other costs involving in owning a boat.

The least of which is depreciation - closely followed by security.

 

Alex

[Machpoint005]

In the current market conditions, how big a part will depreciation play in a boat already reasonably old?

Scotty

Depends how much you pay for it in the first place. If you get it cheap, you can perhaps expect the value to decrease more gently.

But...any boat is worth what someone will pay for it. Including when you buy it, and when someone else buys it from you. There's no easy answer, and boats are not renowned as sound investments even in favourable financial circumstances. I'd suggest that if you can't afford to take the hit, you shouldn't do it.

[david and julie]

Can't afford the mortgage on the house, lost the job, on the dole, could be they might decide nothing to lose buying an NB with what's left after selling house, so that NB's become more popular to live on and CC, NB prices go up.

 

Other side is that all those leisure NB's that were bought on the back of a house re-mortgage or cheap borrowing, are now a luxury that can no longer be afforded, so might be a load coming onto the market, NB prices go down.

I think somewhere between the two myself. I can see boats that are well suited and truly equipped for liveaboard use - especially if they have moorings - holding up much better than some of the budget boats that were churned out in better times. I would also expect particularly nice specialist or enthusiast type boats to fare OK too.

 

I don't think the recession has even started to bite yet.

[WJM]

The economy is in such turmoil right now it is possible you could even pick up an older boat for free. A person who has lost their job and desperately needs to reduce their outgoings could have their boat at the top of their list of luxuries that must to go. Residual asset value aside, license, mooring and maintenance all cost money. A well timed offer to take the boat off their hands before BW 'Section 8' it could be very welcome. Unpleasant thought it is for those on the wrong side of this equation, this is the strongest buyer's market in living memory - use it to your advantage.

 

If I were in the market for a boat right now (which I am not) I would only be offering less than half of the asking price, searching for that seller who is under pressure.

Edited December 23, 2008 by WJM

[David Schweizer]

I would suggest that if you buy second hand wisely and maintain the boat sensibly, you should not loose any capital through depreciation. Buy a good boat in good condition from a respected builder, at a fair price, but do not plan for an underpriced bargain, good boats will always realise something close to their real value, and unless you are fortunate enough to find someone who is having to release some assets quickly, the only "cheap" boats will either be from budget builders, or poorly maintained examples (or both).

 

I bought a 14 year old boat from a good builder eleven years ago for £20.000. and since then have undertaken a complete re-fit and engine re-build. When it was surveyed last year the surveyor suggested that a sensible starting price would be in the region of £28,000. Taking into account the current economiocal situation I would think that this valuation would have dropped a bit, but If I was to sell it now, (and I have no plans to do so) with a bit of luck I should get the price I payed back plus most of the material costs of the re-fit.

 

So buy wisely, and you will not loose any money, which is more than you can say about a car.

[WJM]

"So buy wisely, and you will not loose any money"

 

While there can be an opportunity to do just that (as per David's example) the window is very narrow. Boats loose lots of value in their first year (day!) and then lots more in their final years. Do not look at a boat as an investment like a house. Eventually it will rot, rust or fade away into nothing so that by definition prevents it being an investment.

 

And remember, the value of anything is what someone will give you for it. In the year ahead there will be very few people giving and very many desperately trying to sell.

 

 

A narrowboat is no better an investment than a car. Most cars will fade away to nothing, a few will have special regard and interest and retain some value, some will even increase in value. But most narrowboats, like most cars will eventually become scrap.

Edited December 23, 2008 by WJM

[Naughty Cal]

"So buy wisely, and you will not loose any money"

 

While there can be an opportunity to do just that (as per David's example) the window is very narrow. Boats loose lots of value in their first year (day!) and then lots more in their final years. Do not look at a boat as an investment like a house. Eventually it will rot, rust or fade away into nothing so that by definition prevents it being an investment.

 

And remember, the value of anything is what someone will give you for it. In the year ahead there will be very few people giving and very many desperately trying to sell.

 

 

A narrowboat is no better an investment than a car. Most cars will fade away to nothing, a few will have special regard and interest and retain some value, some will even increase in value. But most narrowboats, like most cars will eventually become scrap.

 

Its a good job he wants a fibreglass boat then rust isnt an issue.

 

Seriously broads cruisers have a market of their own. They hold their value unlike most other boats.

[chris w]

I would suggest that if you buy second hand wisely and maintain the boat sensibly, you should not loose any capital through depreciation. Buy a good boat in good condition from a respected builder, at a fair price, but do not plan for an underpriced bargain, good boats will always realise something close to their real value, and unless you are fortunate enough to find someone who is having to release some assets quickly, the only "cheap" boats will either be from budget builders, or poorly maintained examples (or both).

 

I bought a 14 year old boat from a good builder eleven years ago for £20.000. and since then have undertaken a complete re-fit and engine re-build. When it was surveyed last year the surveyor suggested that a sensible starting price would be in the region of £28,000. Taking into account the current economiocal situation I would think that this valuation would have dropped a bit, but If I was to sell it now, (and I have no plans to do so) with a bit of luck I should get the price I payed back plus most of the material costs of the re-fit.

 

So buy wisely, and you will not loose any money, which is more than you can say about a car.

I don't know if you went to school, or were just asleep in the maths lessons, but even if you were to get £28K for your boat today, you would still have lost a lot of money in real terms compared to the purchasing power of £20K some 11 years ago and the foregoing of the interest on the sum.

 

In reality, you have suffered a large depreciation - it's just you don't know it.

 

Chris

Edited December 23, 2008 by chris w

[david and julie]

In reality, you have suffered a large depreciation - it's just you don't know it.

This is obviously true in monetary terms, but what value do we put on the pleasure and relaxation that boats give us?

[chris w]

This is obviously true in monetary terms, but what value do we put on the pleasure and relaxation that boats give us?

Clearly you don't understand the phrases "monetary terms" and "real terms". In "monetary terms" the boat will have appreciated. In "real terms" the boat has heavily depreciated.

 

I think what you mean is in "non-financial terms" the boat has given the value of pleasure etc, which is correct, but the poster above was talking in financial terms.

 

Chris

[NB Alnwick]

I think the simple rule of a recession is:

 

For those who have money, its a good time to buy,

For those you don't have money, it is not a good time at all . . .

[Pav]

I don't know if you went to school, or were just asleep in the maths lessons, but even if you were to get £28K for your boat today, you would still have lost a lot of money in real terms compared to the purchasing power of £20K some 11 years ago and the foregoing of the interest on the sum.

 

In reality, you have suffered a large depreciation - it's just you don't know it.

 

Chris

 

 

Hi Chris,

 

An observation on your answer to David Schweizer............

 

''Even if you were to get £28K for your boat today, you would still have lost a lot of money in real terms compared to the purchasing power of £20K some 11 years ago and the foregoing of the interest on the sum.

In reality, you have suffered a large depreciation - it's just you don't know it''.

 

Gets your message over just as well as........................

 

''I don't know if you went to school, or were just asleep in the maths lessons, but even if you were to get £28K for your boat today, you would still have lost a lot of money in real terms compared to the purchasing power of £20K some 11 years ago and the foregoing of the interest on the sum.

In reality, you have suffered a large depreciation - it's just you don't know it''.

 

But without the need to try and berate a fellow forum member!!

 

No wonder some folk don't wish to contribute to the forum.

 

Regards,

Pav.

[David Schweizer]

"So buy wisely, and you will not loose any money"

 

While there can be an opportunity to do just that (as per David's example) the window is very narrow. Boats loose lots of value in their first year (day!) and then lots more in their final years. Do not look at a boat as an investment like a house. Eventually it will rot, rust or fade away into nothing so that by definition prevents it being an investment.

 

And remember, the value of anything is what someone will give you for it. In the year ahead there will be very few people giving and very many desperately trying to sell.

 

 

A narrowboat is no better an investment than a car. Most cars will fade away to nothing, a few will have special regard and interest and retain some value, some will even increase in value. But most narrowboats, like most cars will eventually become scrap.

I agree that is very often the case, but boats by some builder's are still attracting good prices thirty years after they were built, Hancock and Lane, and Les Allen come to mind.

 

It really can be a case of recognising which boats will retain their reputation , and which will not.

[chris w]

Hi Chris,

 

An observation on your answer to David Schweizer............

 

''Even if you were to get £28K for your boat today, you would still have lost a lot of money in real terms compared to the purchasing power of £20K some 11 years ago and the foregoing of the interest on the sum.

In reality, you have suffered a large depreciation - it's just you don't know it''.

 

Gets your message over just as well as........................

 

''I don't know if you went to school, or were just asleep in the maths lessons, but even if you were to get £28K for your boat today, you would still have lost a lot of money in real terms compared to the purchasing power of £20K some 11 years ago and the foregoing of the interest on the sum.

In reality, you have suffered a large depreciation - it's just you don't know it''.

 

But without the need to try and berate a fellow forum member!!

 

No wonder some folk don't wish to contribute to the forum.

 

Regards,

Pav.

Thank you for the lesson. Unfortunately, you seem to believe my phrasing was accidental. In reality, it was exactly as I intended. David Schweizer makes many daft statements of which his current one is a good example. He espouses a view that if he doesn't understand something, it cannot be true.

 

Chris

Edited December 24, 2008 by Liam
Unappropriate content.

[Athy]

Pav, I am not sure of the tenor of your criticism. Chris was prefacing his remarks in an eye-catching and jocular way - which makes people want to read further into his piece, as you have done. As long as he does not use biological swearing or say nasty things about Gardner engines, I suggest that he's entitled to use the English language as he thinks fit.

[Pav]

Pav, I am not sure of the tenor of your criticism. Chris was prefacing his remarks in an eye-catching and jocular way - which makes people want to read further into his piece, as you have done. As long as he does not use biological swearing or say nasty things about Gardner engines, I suggest that he's entitled to use the English language as he thinks fit.

 

Athy,

The tenor of my criticism is based thus..........

 

........A light hearted joke, or a tongue in cheek remark may be 'jocular'

 

However, in my opinion, berating someones point of view, by the inclusion of a pointless preface, is neither of these things.

 

You suggest that by including the preface in question, further could have been read into the piece? What a load of tosh.....As far as I can see absolutely zilch was acheived! I would have still read it.

 

Perhaps if you had been on the receiving end of the comment, you would not have felt quite the same way.

 

Anyway, all this is way off topic. My point is made and it is for others to reach their own conclusion.

I will make no further comments on the matter.

Edited December 24, 2008 by Pav

[chris w]

However, in my opinion,

As you say, it's your opinion (to which you are perfectly entitled) but that doesn't make it a fact.

[david and julie]

Thank you for the lesson. Unfortunately, you seem to believe my phrasing was accidental. In reality, it was exactly as I intended. DS has proved to be a total t*sser before as he has done this time as well. He makes many daft statements of which his current one is a good example. He espouses a view that if he doesn't understand something, it cannot be true.

 

Chris

 

MODS. Is there a reason why members of this forum have to tolerate this bigheaded loadmouthed gobs****s offensive remarks???

[chris w]

MODS. Is there a reason why members of this forum have to tolerate this bigheaded loadmouthed gobs****s offensive remarks???

Tush, tush.................. I'll be contacting the mods about remarks like that

Edited December 23, 2008 by chris w

[FORTUNATA]

I find myself very frustrated by the attitude of my immediate family to my recently acquired, rather old second hand, semi tradit narrowboat. The attitude seems to be I have to be a total wally (there's an old fashiond word ) for not buying a house. Needless to say I can't really afford a house anyway.

My family won't have anything to do with it. They've not even seen it for that matter yet the boat has been through a full survey and all survey advice has been heeded and acted upon.

Sure, if I take the most pessimistic view possible, maybe in time I'll lose money but not a great deal of money. Much depends how you look after a boat. If you haul the boat for regular blacking, invest in your boat and take good care of it, it should give years and years of pleasure (and is also still cheaper than living in a house (and easy to move away from annoying neighbours).

Yes, now is a good time to buy a second hand boat. Have a survey done of the hull as that's the main thing. Be prepared to have to spend on an older boat to meet the BSS but otherwise it's a new way of living and a real adventure.

 

I agree that is very often the case, but boats by some builder's are still attracting good prices thirty years after they were built, Hancock and Lane, and Les Allen come to mind.

 

It really can be a case of recognising which boats will retain their reputation , and which will not.

[chris w]

Sure, if I take the most pessimistic view possible, maybe in time I'll lose money but not a great deal of money.

This kind of thinking is really not reality. Every year, you are losing the interest on the capital plus losing the purchaing power of the money due to inflation.

 

Now, for the next couple of years inflation may be low (but watch those oil prices shoot up dramatically in the near future) and interest rates may be low, but long term you will be losing at least 10% per year on your capital if you invest it in a depreciating asset like a boat.

 

A boat is a lot of things but, financially speaking, it's not an investment.

 

Chris