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INVERTER TRIES TO KILL WIFE

nigel fryer

By nigel fryer
in General Boating

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David Schweizer Veteran II

David Schweizer

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Posted
If a marine "engineer" wired it up, there's your problem. The vast majority I've seen in action know Jack Sh*t about electrics. The inverter cannot give you a shock, even if it's faulty, if the inverter, the RCD and the MCB are correctly wired.

 

Chris

You have referred to the importance of an RCD or MBC being important when installing an inverter before Chris, and if I remember correctly you suggested one, but somehow I lost the details. Is there ayny chance that you could repeat the advice and post a simple wiring diagram.

 

I have a small Sterling 350w Quasi Sine Inverter on my boat which I use to power the TV and charge the 12v drill etc. It is not permanently connected being powered via a plug and socket wired directly to the batteries. It does not get used very often but I would not want to blow myself up because it was not properly protected.

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nigel fryer Contributor

nigel fryer

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You have referred to the importance of an RCD or MBC being important when installing an inverter before Chris, and if I remember correctly you suggested one, but somehow I lost the details. Is there ayny chance that you could repeat the advice and post a simple wiring diagram.

 

I have a small Sterling 350w Quasi Sine Inverter on my boat which I use to power the TV and charge the 12v drill etc. It is not permanently connected being powered via a plug and socket wired directly to the batteries. It does not get used very often but I would not want to blow myself up because it was not properly protected.

Hi david just go to sterlings website and get the details there.

Nige

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Keeping Up Veteran II

Keeping UpDonate to Canal World

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... its in our wardrobe well out of the way of anything and not covered and not damp at all !!

 

Does it get enough ventilation in the wardrobe? It may not be covered, but if the wardrobe is full of clothes it may be overheating in use, and developing a fault as a result. Yes I know that the various protection devices (RCB, MCB, etc) should protect when that happens, but that's not the issue I'm considering here it's the question of why a succession of them should have all gone wrong.

 

I have myself contravened all the rules because my charger is inside a wardrobe too BUT on the other hand I ALWAYS remove all the clothes and open the door before I switch it on.

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nigel fryer Contributor

nigel fryer

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Does it get enough ventilation in the wardrobe? It may not be covered, but if the wardrobe is full of clothes it may be overheating in use, and developing a fault as a result. Yes I know that the various protection devices (RCB, MCB, etc) should protect when that happens, but that's not the issue I'm considering here it's the question of why a succession of them should have all gone wrong.

 

I have myself contravened all the rules because my charger is inside a wardrobe too BUT on the other hand I ALWAYS remove all the clothes and open the door before I switch it on.

Definitely not the case but thanks for the suggestion. No clothes at all in the wardrobe on this occasion. Plenty of air circulating.

 

Electric Julie

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ditchcrawler Veteran II

ditchcrawlerDonate to Canal World

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Definitely not the case but thanks for the suggestion. No clothes at all in the wardrobe on this occasion. Plenty of air circulating.

 

Electric Julie

All I can say is when we go to the boat after a month this time of the year we find the wall paper bubbling due to the damp and it takes several hours to dry out. The humidity is probably over 85%.

The other point is what is the battery voltage like. If the boat has been sitting a month, no shore supply and you are using the inverter, TV, lights and you have not run the engine to charge the batteries. Could this have had a bearing on events.

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nigel fryer Contributor

nigel fryer

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All I can say is when we go to the boat after a month this time of the year we find the wall paper bubbling due to the damp and it takes several hours to dry out. The humidity is probably over 85%.

The other point is what is the battery voltage like. If the boat has been sitting a month, no shore supply and you are using the inverter, TV, lights and you have not run the engine to charge the batteries. Could this have had a bearing on events.

The first thing we do is start the engine that was on at 5pm until 6.30pm.

The engine was on the first time we set up the tv.

But the engine was not on the second time we turned it on.

many thanks .

Nigel

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MoominPapa Veteran II

MoominPapa

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There are lots of people on this thread trying to work out why the RCD didn't work, but is it certain that the problem was a 240v shock anyway, rather then "shock and surprise" at having the inverter blow up as it was switched on? I've experienced both, and they're different, but for someone who has never had a 240v shock, it might be difficult to tell what exactly happened.

 

Certainly the "shot backwards across the cabin" thing sounds more like reflex reaction to perceived danger than reaction to a shock and the "hair standing on end" sounds like a description by someone who's expecting the problem to be a shock, but doesn't know what one is like. Large static electricity charges cause hair to stand up, not 240v AC; on the other hand being suddenly scared does raise the old hackles.....

 

MP.

Edited by MoominPapa
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paulcatchpole Rising Star

paulcatchpole

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There are lots of people on this thread trying to work out why the RCD didn't work, but is it certain that the problem was a 240v shock anyway, rather then "shock and surprise" at having the inverter blow up as it was switched on? I've experienced both, and they're different, but for someone who has never had a 240v shock, it might be difficult to tell what exactly happened.

 

Certainly the "shot backwards across the cabin" thing sounds more like reflex reaction to perceived danger than reaction to a shock and the "hair standing on end" sounds like a description by someone who's expecting the problem to be a shock, but doesn't know what one is like. Large static electricity charges cause hair to stand up, not 240v AC; on the other hand being suddenly scared does raise the old hackles.....

 

MP.

 

That's a very good point. Low voltage shock [230v] has caused me to reflexively pull back my hand from the offending item, but never to actually 'fly' backwards. High voltage [KV range] shock has, once, caused me to fall to a sitting position, backwards, much to the amusement of my mother watching at the time!

 

Isn't high-power RF shock worse? Can't comment from experience, but I'm sure an RF engineer teaching a course I was on years ago handed out dire warnings about antenna arrays and burns due to there being no reflexive movement away from the source of the shock? Mind you, that may be rubbish!

 

PC

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mykaskin Experienced

mykaskin

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Isn't high-power RF shock worse? Can't comment from experience, but I'm sure an RF engineer teaching a course I was on years ago handed out dire warnings about antenna arrays and burns due to there being no reflexive movement away from the source of the shock? Mind you, that may be rubbish!

 

PC

 

You are right, RF burns are a well known problem, even with 25W it can hurt. Never thought about it, but yes I guess the lack of actual electrical shock probably makes the problem worse.

 

Mike

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denboy Experienced

denboy

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You are right, RF burns are a well known problem, even with 25W it can hurt. Never thought about it, but yes I guess the lack of actual electrical shock probably makes the problem worse.

 

Mike

RF burns definitely throw you i have a 2 inch scar to prove it (20k volts straight through my leg) :lol:

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alan_fincher Veteran II

alan_fincher

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RF burns definitely throw you i have a 2 inch scar to prove it (20k volts straight through my leg) :lol:

Fortunately with the improved coverage of the mobile phone network they have been able to drop the power needed by the handset, and such accidents are now rare. :lol:

 

I hope it was well away from anywhere even more painful. :lol:

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Dominic M Influencer

Dominic M

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I too would be interested to know where the inverter is mounted. I remeber Gibbo stating (during an encounter with TerryL) that many inverters etc die as a result of the damp conditions in which they live. I wondered if your raising the boat temperature significantly was causing condensation in the unit?

Completely off topic I know, but can you give me the link to that showdown. I bet it had as much entertainment value as the Ricky Hatton fight :lol:

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nigel fryer Contributor

nigel fryer

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Have just been onto the inverter maker and they said no problems just send it back and we will replace it for you.

When i said its the third one !! he said is it a pure sine 1000watt to which i said yes ,he then said just get it back and they will sort it !!!

Its the same guy i always get through to and last time we went through voltage checks and what im runing off it ,.

 

I will keep you informed with the progress.

Nigel. :lol:

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dave.e Explorer

dave.e

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Posted (edited)
Nigel

 

If the case went live through a fault, it means the inverter cannot be wired correctly. The case cannot go live without tripping your RCD. BUT, for this to happen, the mains earth and neutral of the inverter MUST be connected together and earthed to the hull, otherwise the RCD will not trip even if a fault occurs.

 

This, of course, doesn't help in knowing what caused the fault, but it would have saved your wife a nasty experience. If you have lost 3 inverters in a year, I too would suspect there is damp getting in somewhere.

 

Chris

 

Chris,

 

I am confused about which neutral should be bonded to earth/hull. Is it the neutral after the RCD or the neutral straight from the inverter before passing through the RCD. If it's the former then I guess the RCD will trip since the current will flow from the faulty inverter, through the victim and into the hull, then back to the inverter neutral via the RCD. This current in the RDC neutral will not be matched by any current in the RCD live, so it will trip.

 

However, this sounds dangerous to me if you touch the live after the RCD (i.e. when you would expect to be protected) since the return current would go through the the RCD neutral and balance the live current, so it would not trip.

 

If the inverter neutral is earth/hull bonded prior to the RCD, either by design or catastophic failure of the inverter, then no current will flow through either leg of the RCD when someone touches the live out of the inverter prior to the RCD, and they will not be protected.

 

Does this make sense or am I missing something?

 

Thanks,

Dave

 

Sorry. I've just read the other thread and realised that my question is just throwing more worms into the can...... I'll get my coat.

Edited by dave.e
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Boatgypsy Collaborator

Boatgypsy

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For what it is worth, I have had a shock from the body of my Sterling in the past. Like a fool when I was fitting it, I switched it on to test it before finally connecting the earth. The shock I got was 50hz, but did not feel like 250v - much less. It did make me jump though - also it happened when I touched the hull and the Sterling body at the same time. I presume that there is a low voltage ac leak to earth. I've had no problems in five years though.

 

The response from Sterling sounds to me as if there is a known issue with this unit.

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