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Safe distance between moored boats


moggyjo

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Talking to the fire brigade about safe distances between residential boats. We were told that the regulations for caravans was three m basically because of having gas on board and thought that boats would be the same.

BW say 1m, what do you recon?

 

Wendy

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Heck of a lot of marinas would have to be rebuilt/reduce capacity, meaning only one thing - higher prices!

Also, no sharing double locks!

 

This latest recommendation is another example of the Health & Safety wallahs not thinking things through.

 

Howard

Edited by howardang
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I would be VERY interested to see what research and/or other data the 3m or 1m distances are based on.

 

I'm guessing that someone somewhere some time ago stuck a finger in the air and made a guess, and then wrote it down (3 metres is suspiciously similar to that nice round number of 10 feet). That figure then got copied into another document somewhere and it has been slavishly followed ever since without anyone thinking about it.

 

I'm also guessing that, as well as knowing that gas can can go bang, whoever it was that made the first guess, also thought...hmmm, I can't put them too far apart coz we won't get too many caravans in the field/boats in the marina. Therefore, they're probably not 'Safety' Standards as such, but more 'Safety/Economy' Standards.

 

Cynical, moi ?

 

No, just experienced in how most of these types of Standard develop over time...

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At the IWA festival at Beale Park, the fire officer was very diligent in ensuring that the correct gap was maintained between the rows of boats (breasted up to 6 deep IIRC), insisting that one row of boats move back by 2 feet so that the gap was correct even though this meant that the occupants of that row of boats had to disembark through the branches of a large bush every time.

 

The boat breasted outside us found this very convenient, because they could then use that gap to keep their dinghy in. The dinghy contained 2 spare gas bottles, plus their generator and several jerrycans of petrol for it. The fire officer didn't seem to care about that even when we complained.

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We were told that the regulations for caravans was three m basically because of having gas on board and thought that boats would be the same.

 

 

Wendy

 

Having just moved from boating to caravanning, on regulated sites the distance between units is 6m, although this can be reduced if an awning is erected.

 

Tony.

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Moggy, how come your avatar person makes big strides at the same rate as your little pooch, but you never seem to catch up with him? :lol:

 

 

............. I can watch it for ages, fascinating.

Oh no.........

 

I hadn't noticed that until you said.

 

It is very addictive/therapeutic though

 

:lol:

 

At the IWA festival at Beale Park, the fire officer was very diligent in ensuring that the correct gap was maintained between the rows of boats (breasted up to 6 deep IIRC), insisting that one row of boats move back by 2 feet so that the gap was correct even though this meant that the occupants of that row of boats had to disembark through the branches of a large bush every time.

 

The boat breasted outside us found this very convenient, because they could then use that gap to keep their dinghy in. The dinghy contained 2 spare gas bottles, plus their generator and several jerrycans of petrol for it. The fire officer didn't seem to care about that even when we complained.

Yep - I remember that as well. And we kept our dinghy in the gap as well. We did only have a 5 litre can of petrol in though :lol:

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Speaking as a firefighter who used to work in the Community Fire Safety department (the ones whose job it is to advise the public)

 

I'm guessing that a lot of people know about the standard 10 (or 20?) foot rule applied by the two major camping organisations - The Caravan Club and The Camping and Caravanning club - its likely that the person who offered that advise used the common knowledge (a lot of firefighters have caravans or are used to folowing that standard) and transferred it from one situation to another - human nature - the similarity being the presence of gas cylinders - ignore the fact that the cylinders are likely to be in a fire proof box in the case of steel narrowboats - the guy giving the advice probably wouldn't think of it - besides the cylinders on the second boat don't become a problem till later in the fire when there has been enough time to heat the cylinders to a dangerous temperature

 

Several feet of water between boats is irrelevant as regards fire spread - it is the radiated heat through the air that is most likely to spread the fire from one boat to another or from one caravan or tent to another

 

Fibreglass and wooden boats are going to be very vulnerable to fire spread - the fibreglass ones more so since it is very flammable - ignites easily and burns fiercely and quickly

 

Anything flammable on a steel boat - paint, wooden cap rails, cratch covers, pram hoods, ropes or other items - if close enough to a source of radiated heat will be damaged by heat (scorched or melted) if not ignited - if a cratch full of flammable materials caught fire it wouldn't take much for that heat to be conducted through the thin steel walls of the cabin to ignite flammable items inside the boat - or the fire could easily break through the glass in the front doors or windows

 

The damage inflicted by radiated heat follows the inverse square rule - ie if you double the distance from the source the amount of heat energy absorbed is reduced by a factor of four

 

You pays your money and takes your choice - knowing the risk base your decisions accordingly - that is the sensible interpretation of Health and Safety principles

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Speaking as a firefighter who used to work in the Community Fire Safety department (the ones whose job it is to advise the public)

 

I'm guessing that a lot of people know about the standard 10 (or 20?) foot rule applied by the two major camping organisations - The Caravan Club and The Camping and Caravanning club - its likely that the person who offered that advise used the common knowledge (a lot of firefighters have caravans or are used to folowing that standard) and transferred it from one situation to another - human nature - the similarity being the presence of gas cylinders - ignore the fact that the cylinders are likely to be in a fire proof box in the case of steel narrowboats - the guy giving the advice probably wouldn't think of it - besides the cylinders on the second boat don't become a problem till later in the fire when there has been enough time to heat the cylinders to a dangerous temperature

 

Several feet of water between boats is irrelevant as regards fire spread - it is the radiated heat through the air that is most likely to spread the fire from one boat to another or from one caravan or tent to another

 

Fibreglass and wooden boats are going to be very vulnerable to fire spread - the fibreglass ones more so since it is very flammable - ignites easily and burns fiercely and quickly

 

Anything flammable on a steel boat - paint, wooden cap rails, cratch covers, pram hoods, ropes or other items - if close enough to a source of radiated heat will be damaged by heat (scorched or melted) if not ignited - if a cratch full of flammable materials caught fire it wouldn't take much for that heat to be conducted through the thin steel walls of the cabin to ignite flammable items inside the boat - or the fire could easily break through the glass in the front doors or windows

 

The damage inflicted by radiated heat follows the inverse square rule - ie if you double the distance from the source the amount of heat energy absorbed is reduced by a factor of four

 

You pays your money and takes your choice - knowing the risk base your decisions accordingly - that is the sensible interpretation of Health and Safety principles

 

 

My point in a similar thread a few weeks ago was......we buy flats on top off, and alongside of other flats.....whats the difference...it was suggested that modern flats have builders regs re fire BLOCKS......yep...but what about the peabody buldings and guiness trust buildings.....and isnt it a fact that most fatals involing fire are due to smoke and not actual fire?

 

We have 2 smoke alarms on board...the batts were replaced yesterday as they were a year old...this is inspite of the manufaturers instructions that the alarm would beep intermittently if the batt was low......we also have 2 CO alarms.

 

Last night in Bexley we had a fatal fire....intiial investigation showed the seat of the fire to be an immersion heater covered in towels.

 

 

Look to your houses before you look to your boat...and in both cases......try and ensure you have an escape route if the worse happens

 

 

BTW a sharp knife will assist in making you home safer should your neighbours boat ignite

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It wasn't a boat, but I think one of the wheely bins at Thrupp went up last night, Fire Brigade was in attendance.

 

It was to cold, and I wasn't nosey enough to warrant going out to see.

 

I expect someone threw away some fire ash before it was fully cooled.

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Typically gas in caravans are contained in a timber framed light aluminium skinned box, most narrowboats contain their gas in a steel box usually at least 4mm thick, therefore fire/explosion spread is less likely with narrowboats

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Typically gas in caravans are contained in a timber framed light aluminium skinned box, most narrowboats contain their gas in a steel box usually at least 4mm thick, therefore fire/explosion spread is less likely with narrowboats

 

Is it actually gas bottles which cause the problem though? I've seen a few examples of burnt out boats and a burnt out boatclub house and the gas bottles always seem to remain intact with just their paint burnt off. There was a 40ft springer completely burnt out near Marlow recently and the gas bottles didn't go up, the boat was buckled, windows melted totally wrecked but the bottles were still intact. I guess it could be that the fire brigade concentrate on keeping any gas bottles cool above other considerations or are they actually really quite fire proof? How long would it actually take to burst a 13kg propane bottle in a boat fire?

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