Double glazing

[dunkydoo]

Hi,

I was thinking of having two double glazed windows fitted to our daughters bedroom to hold the heat in the winter. We live on a wide beam boat. I spoke to a narrow boat window company and they said that double glazed windows on boats can be problematic. What experiences of double glazing do forum members have?

Thanks

Dunkydoo

[Chris J W]

No problem with mine.

[Proper Job]

I've always wondered about Double Glazing in boats.

 

Given that most boat windows aren't that big, and assuming that the cabin sides/roof etc are all well insulated, is there a large difference in heat loss?

[Chris J W]

I've always wondered about Double Glazing in boats.

 

Given that most boat windows aren't that big, and assuming that the cabin sides/roof etc are all well insulated, is there a large difference in heat loss?

 

Judging from what I've seen over the last year, the major benefit is probably that there's far less condensation on the inner-sides of double glazing.

[kiki]

Our lower part of the windows are double glazed and therefore no condensation, the uppper part are not, and are covered with condensation - which proves to me they must work.....oh and we have a spider or two trapped between the panes from the last time we cleaned them, its sort of like an ant farm, we watch them weaving webs in the double glazing - well life on the canals is a bit on the slow side.

 

basically works well we are quite toasty with just one small fan heater on in the depth of winter, and as it only costs us 10p an hour to run, cheaper than diesel or coal.

[Mick_B]

Snipppp>>>.....oh and we have a spider or two trapped between the panes from the last time we cleaned them, its sort of like an ant farm, we watch them weaving webs in the double glazing

and they catch / eat what?? or do you have a trap door to chuck in the odd fly to liven up the action...

[frangar]

It seems a shame that all the ones I have had anything to do with dont have a thermal break in the frame so you still get condensation right next to the woodwork.....suppose there must be a reason??

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[Derri]

My main problem with them is the price.

 

Just ordered six windows for my boat. £2000...SINGLE glazed.

 

That was our cheapest quote.

[blackrose]

The main problem with double glazing on boats is that unlike houses steel boats are much more prone to expansion, contraction, flexing and getting bashed against lock walls. Because of this if you have cheap units installed air and moisture can get between the sheets of glass causing mildew and mould growth inside the units which you can then do nothing about.

 

So if you're going for double glazed windows go for a good make. I've heard the name Channelglaze mentioned here before. (They are not cheap)

Edited October 16, 2008 by blackrose

[kiki]

The main problem with double glazing on boats is that unlike houses steel boats are much more prone to expansion, contraction, flexing and getting bashed against lock walls. Because of this if you have cheap units installed air and moisture .....(and spiders)

 

can get between the sheets of glass causing mildew and mould growth inside the units which you can then do nothing about.

 

Ours have sort of little catches (technical phrase here) which enables us to take them off. the MB made them and it cost nada. I am not sure where he got the glass but picture this...made exactly the same size as the window, sealed with neoprene rubber and a sort of latch thing that allows you to take the second section off to clean, release spiders...or drop in flies.

 

So if you're going for double glazed windows go for a good make. I've heard the name Channelglaze mentioned here before. (They are not cheap)

 

Not meaning to be flippant, but in my world, if its not free, its just not fun.

Edited October 16, 2008 by kiki

[-Jack-]

We built a new wide beam and fitted some household double glazing units, made to the right size in brown/mahogany look.

 

Absolutely brilliant. Lived aboard two years - no condensation. Lovely and toasty onboard in the winter.

 

The only problem we found was to make sure they are shut before entering a lock as there was no top hoppers. Not a problem once you know ..

[Tonyl]

Hi There,

 

I asked a similar question last year whilst going through the build process and received some very good information which from the Forum folks.

I met the Guy from Cauldwells at the Birmingham Boatshow and had a chat about double glazing and his first question to me was "are you going to live on board" ?. No, I said (which was the case, "Then you dont need double glazing then" was his reply. So we didn't !

I accept that your case sounds different as I guess you are Liveaboard

 

Hope this helps

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=12376

 

Regards

 

Tony

Edited October 16, 2008 by Tonyl

[pearley]

Joanie M has all portholes. I had perspex cut to a diameter just 1mm smaller that the porthole liner and fitted a U shaped soft plastic strip all round the edge. A little bit of Fairy Liquid rubbed round the liner then simply push the perspex in tight up to the porthole. Job done. Just remember to clean the glass first! Also used perspex to double glaze the Houdini hatches by fitted a wooden strip all round the inside of the wooden liner and using a magnetic strip to hold the perspex in place.

 

Regards

Pete

[blackrose]

We built a new wide beam and fitted some household double glazing units, made to the right size in brown/mahogany look.

 

Absolutely brilliant. Lived aboard two years - no condensation. Lovely and toasty onboard in the winter.

 

The only problem we found was to make sure they are shut before entering a lock as there was no top hoppers. Not a problem once you know ..

 

Personally I would not recommend household units - firstly for asthetic reasons, but more importantly because household units are not designed for boats and most will not flex as required and may soon lose their integrity.

 

I think you must have been very fortunate. Can you tell us which particular make of windows you had installed?

[-Jack-]

Personally I would not recommend household units - firstly for asthetic reasons, but more importantly because household units are not designed for boats and most will not flex as required and may soon lose their integrity.

 

I think you must have been very fortunate. Can you tell us which particular make of windows you had installed?

 

It was a local supplier , unfortunately I can't remember their name. They were fitted with stainless screws and set in a black rubberised solution. Obviously fitted on an absolutely flat part of the cabin side ie no curvature at all. Screwed to wooden battens surrounding the inside of the window openings.The size I seem to remember they were made to standard n/b window openings 36 x 21". A few window profiles were studied as the main thing was to get a profile with a decent lip on the outside. We had no problems with flexing whilst living aboard and we also did have a few 'contact sport' moments. The purchaser seemed very happy with the installation as his friends kept appearing wanting 'how to' information. We think they were top hung.

 

Aesthetically people thought the boat looked great. Proved by the fact the boat sold within 2 weeks of advertising at a very nice profit

Edited October 18, 2008 by -Jack-

[blackrose]

It was a local supplier , unfortunately I can't remember their name. They were fitted with stainless screws and set in a black rubberised solution. Obviously fitted on an absolutely flat part of the cabin side ie no curvature at all. Screwed to wooden battens surrounding the inside of the window openings.The size I seem to remember they were made to standard n/b window openings 36 x 21". A few window profiles were studied as the main thing was to get a profile with a decent lip on the outside. We had no problems with flexing whilst living aboard and we also did have a few 'contact sport' moments. The purchaser seemed very happy with the installation as his friends kept appearing wanting 'how to' information. We think they were top hung.

 

Aesthetically people thought the boat looked great. Proved by the fact the boat sold within 2 weeks of advertising at a very nice profit

 

Sorr I'm confused... It sounds like you are a boat builder and you also seem to suggest that you were not the final buyer?

[-Jack-]

Sorr I'm confused... It sounds like you are a boat builder and you also seem to suggest that you were not the final buyer?

 

Yes. I used to be a boat builder but we built this particular wide beam with double glazed windows for ourselves. Then realised the interest and potential profit - so took the money

 

BTW I'm also now confused.

I don't understand why whether I built boats professionally or otherwise has any bearing on the practicality or suitability of fitting double glazing window units in canal boats. I also doubt whether many people are the final buyer. I guess most boats are sold many times during their floating life. So, what difference " you were not the final buyer" make ?

Edited October 19, 2008 by -Jack-

[blackrose]

Yes. I used to be a boat builder but we built this particular wide beam with double glazed windows for ourselves. Then realised the interest and potential profit - so took the money

 

BTW I'm also now confused.

I don't understand why whether I built boats professionally or otherwise has any bearing on the practicality or suitability of fitting double glazing window units in canal boats. I also doubt whether many people are the final buyer. I guess most boats are sold many times during their floating life. So, what difference " you were not the final buyer" make ?

 

I was not questioning the practicality or suitability of fitting double glazing window units in canal boats per se, but I was dubious about fitting household units for the reasons i have already described. The difference between a builder and a final buyer (and by final buyer I just meant any long term user of the boat), is that one builds the boat while the other actually lives in it and has to deal with the consequences.

 

I have heard boat builders tell me that a particular aspect of their work will be fine, when in reality it wasn't. Therefore I would take a review of domestic double-glazed units from a user seriously, but not from the person who installed them if they hadn't lived with them through at least a few winters. If you have been on both sides then fine, but that was the point I was trying to ascertain.

Edited October 20, 2008 by blackrose

[Roger Gunkel]

For anyone who is thinking about double glazing on board, but not sure about the benefits, I would suggest doing what we did two years ago (I have mentioned this elsewhere, so apologies if I am repeating myself). We bought some double glazing film from Wikinsons, which is thin plastic film rather like cling film. You apply double sided sticky tape to the frames, then apply the film over the frame and window. (make sure the glass is completely dry first). We had to remove the hopper stops first, which only took a few minutes. Heat the film with a hair dryer to stretch it taught, which makes it almost invisible.

 

We found the difference in heat loss and lack of draughts quite staggering, with an even heat throughout the boat (57ft widebeam). The total cost for all windows was less than £10. You won't be able to open the windows for ventilation, so will have to use hatches and doors more, but as a cheap experiment, you have nothing to lose before committing serious money to proper double glazing.

 

Those who mentioned insects, moisture etc between panes, will have secondary glazing, which is a fixed or opening frame over existing windows. The most efficient and expensive type is replacing current windows completely with sealed double units.

 

This year, we are making our own units by completely sealing the lower fixed window and having a removeable pane frame over the hoppers.

 

Boats with portholes only, would have the smallest heat loss, but those with modern large windows will find that the biggest heat loss is through the glass.

After all, it is in direct contact with freezing air outside, transferring your valuable heat. Apart from the heat loss and condensation, the cold air from the windows will always drop to the lowest part of the boat while the warm air will rise, giving continuous cold draughts around your feet and legs. Thick curtains won't stop this, but double glazing will remove thet problem.

 

40 years ago, I did a short spell with a double glazing company and one of the things I took with me to convince people of heat loss, was a 6" square sealed unit and the same size of single glass. Holding a lighter under the single glass would make it too hot to touch after a few seconds. With the sealed unit, the second sheet stayed cool. That was a lesson that always stayed with me.

 

Roger

[-Jack-]

I was not questioning the practicality or suitability of fitting double glazing window units in canal boats per se, but I was dubious about fitting household units for the reasons i have already described. The difference between a builder and a final buyer (and by final buyer I just meant any long term user of the boat), is that one builds the boat while the other actually lives in it and has to deal with the consequences.

 

I have heard boat builders tell me that a particular aspect of their work will be fine, when in reality it wasn't. Therefore I would take a review of domestic double-glazed units from a user seriously, but not from the person who installed them if they hadn't lived with them through at least a few winters. If you have been on both sides then fine, but that was the point I was trying to ascertain.

 

Did you not read my original posting on this matter?

 

I stated " lived aboard for two years" that did include 2 winters

 

Enough said. You obviously have doubt about my input so I won't waste my valuable time any longer.

[Boatgypsy]

This is my experience with double glazing. I've had a liveaboard for the last 8 years with double glazing fitted. It was a bloody expensive addition to the boat when I was having it fitted out. Despite being from a reputable manufacturer, after a couple of years the seal all broke down and I now have condensation inside the units that I can do nothing about. The only benefit of these windows is a reduction in heat loss.

 

However, what you do get with single glazed windows is that they function as great big dehumidifiers. When the weather is cold and the boat is warm and damp, the moisture condenses on the single panel glass. It then runs down the window and collects in the drainage channel, where, as long as the drain holes are kept clear, it drains outside. Double galzing does not do this - a big disadvantage!

[blackrose]

This is my experience with double glazing. I've had a liveaboard for the last 8 years with double glazing fitted. It was a bloody expensive addition to the boat when I was having it fitted out. Despite being from a reputable manufacturer, after a couple of years the seal all broke down and I now have condensation inside the units that I can do nothing about. The only benefit of these windows is a reduction in heat loss.

 

However, what you do get with single glazed windows is that they function as great big dehumidifiers. When the weather is cold and the boat is warm and damp, the moisture condenses on the single panel glass. It then runs down the window and collects in the drainage channel, where, as long as the drain holes are kept clear, it drains outside. Double galzing does not do this - a big disadvantage!

 

Thanks for your honesty. If it's any consolation most single glazed metal framed boat windows will condensate on the edge of the frame beyond the drainage channel and that bit doesn't drain outside, so we suffer from the same problem.

Edited October 23, 2008 by blackrose

[Boatgypsy]

Thanks for your honesty. If it's any consolation most single glazed metal framed boat windows will condensate on the edge of the frame beyond the drainage channel and that bit doesn't drain outside, so we suffer from the same problem.

I should add that you still get condensation on the frames if your double glazing is aluminium framed.

[Bojangles]

I should add that you still get condensation on the frames if your double glazing is aluminium framed.

 

Seems like a good reason to use the domestic framed d/glazed units but with the fenestration to suit a canal boat.