Hire Boats Gas Steet Basin in early 1960's

[lydfordcastle]

Pete Do you know recall the name of the guy who owned Christopher James in the mid 60's, IIRC he lived in a cottage near the pub below Cheswerdine winding hole, again IIRC he had some thing to do with pottery as he used to market miniature pottery narrow boats the holds of which were flower pots/ holders + other pottery canal related items It was at the time Bunny Bunford lived in a house just on the Norbury side of the winding hole so Giffard was also moored there

 

I don't know about the pottery etc but I'm pretty sure that by 1969 Christopher James was owned by Colin Sidaway who worked as a Heating and Ventilating engineer for a firm in Tividale. I seem to recall he lived on her.

[lydfordcastle]

I'm definitely not a bus 'Anorak', so certainly can't win an argument about all the variants of the London Transport "RT" bus.

 

But I'm confident huge numbers of "roof box" RTs were not constructed until after the war.

 

This source suggests 1169 built like this from 1946 onwards.....

 

http://www.countrybus.org.uk/RT/RT3.htm#top

 

Now as to the origins of what's on that boat, I wouldn't even hazard a guess.

 

Did the trip boat suffer from people waiting all day for it, then three turning up at once ?

 

Not only that Alan, I think that they'd have been a bit on the wide side for the Monty where the maximum craft width is given as 6'-10". A London Transport RT was 8'-0" wide. Even the narrowest double decker I know of, the Guy Arab Utility, was a tad over 7'-5" wide so would have certainly needed some modification before grafting onto a working boat.

[rovingrom]

A Brummagem boat I hired.

 

This boat was the reason I had to get my own boat.

 

Hi Laurie. Yes, I love the Brum Tug concept - a mobile boatman's cabin with a loo, small galley, long foredeck and cratch - all in a 30ft (give or take) length! I'd love to own one but I know from the research on the Brum Tugs thread (http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=46908&page=1) that there were only 16 built. So is that you sat on the roof, with the big grin, Laurie?

 

My brief spell at "Brum Boats" in the mid-70's preceded the Brum Tug concept, but they had 3 (I think) faily compact 40ft hire boats and a smaller 30 footer (roughly, maybe 28ft?) called LAURA that IIRC was painted black hull, white gunwhales, and a mustard yellow fibreglass cabin top. She didn't have a boatman's cabin but had a "trad" (i.e. not cruiser) stern deck - unusual for a hire boat at that time. I have the impression she was on lease to Brummagem as she was never painted in their lined red colour scheme. I sort of have the feeling that the LAURA was the precursor to the Brum Tug concept. Not to be confused with a later LAURA owned / built by Brummagem.

 

Anybody have any details of the earlier Brummagem Boats hire fleet from the 1970's?

Edited December 28, 2014 by rovingrom

[pete harrison]

My brief spell at "Brum Boats" in the mid-70's preceded the Brum Tug concept, but they had 3 (I think) faily compact 40ft hire boats and a smaller 30 footer (roughly, maybe 28ft?) called LAURA that IIRC was painted black hull, white gunwhales, and a mustard yellow fibreglass cabin top. She didn't have a boatman's cabin but had a "trad" (i.e. not cruiser) stern deck - unusual for a hire boat at that time. I have the impression she was on lease to Brummagem as she was never painted in their lined red colour scheme. I sort of have the feeling that the LAURA was the precursor to the Brum Tug concept. Not to be confused with a later LAURA owned / built by Brummagem.

 

Anybody have any details of the earlier Brummagem Boats hire fleet from the 1970's?

I recall it as LORNA rather than LAURA, a 40' square sterned Teddesley built hull and fibre glass cabin, powered by a Lister SR2. As you say this boat was on a lease of some sort from Jack Ellison who looked after the company accounts, and the first owner of the Doug Greaves / Ian Kemp built 50' 'Northwich' lookalike SHERBORNE. I also recall it having a flocked interior from the gunwales up, but this may have just been in the sleeping area's.

 

Other early Brummagem Boats hire cruisers included LAD, LADY and LASS - all about 40' and built by Rugby Boatbuilders, but again with Teddesley fibre glass cabins and Lister SR2 engines. KLEIO was another earlyish hire boat, built by Doug Greaves as an all steel 53' with a Lister SR3 in about 1976. I also remember KNOT - a 35' Hancock & Lane 'Norseman' with a Lister SR2, KALLIOPE - 40' Rugby Boatbuilders with a 'traditional' stern, DART - a 55' Rugby Boatbuilders with a Lister SR3, RIDGEWAY - a 45' Mindon Marine with a Lister SR3.

 

These were all subsequently replaced by more modern boats in the late 1970's and early 1980's, but most if not all are still knocking about. The first of the modern boats was the 30' all steel BUTTON (or BUCKLE) built in 1978ish, and all subsequent Brummagem Boats hire boats began with the letter 'B'.

Edited December 28, 2014 by pete harrison

[David Schweizer]

The boat would have been Bert Dunkley's ex-Barlows wooden motor "Prince."

 

I am fairly certain that the boat had a steel hull and was not a converted ex-working boat, I must get the photos sorted.

[archie57]

The earlier Brum Boats hire fleet (3 I think) were built by Rugby Boatbuilders from Hillmorton Wharf IIRC. Manager was Bob Turner (Captain Mainwaring!)

[rovingrom]

I recall it as LORNA rather than LAURA, a 40' square sterned Teddesley built hull and fibre glass cabin, powered by a Lister SR2. As you say this boat was on a lease of some sort from Jack Ellison who looked after the company accounts, and the first owner of the Doug Greaves / Ian Kemp built 50' 'Northwich' lookalike SHERBORNE. I also recall it having a flocked interior from the gunwales up, but this may have just been in the sleeping area's.

 

Other early Brummagem Boats hire cruisers included LAD, LADY and LASS - all about 40' and built by Rugby Boatbuilders, but again with Teddesley fibre glass cabins and Lister SR2 engines. KLEIO was another earlyish hire boat, built by Doug Greaves as an all steel 53' with a Lister SR3 in about 1976. I also remember KNOT - a 35' Hancock & Lane 'Norseman' with a Lister SR2, KALLIOPE - 40' Rugby Boatbuilders with a 'traditional' stern, DART - a 55' Rugby Boatbuilders with a Lister SR3, RIDGEWAY - a 45' Mindon Marine with a Lister SR3.

 

These were all subsequently replaced by more modern boats in the late 1970's and early 1980's, but most if not all are still knocking about. The first of the modern boats was the 30' all steel BUTTON (or BUCKLE) built in 1978ish, and all subsequent Brummagem Boats hire boats began with the letter 'B'.

 

Hi Pete, you really are a mine of information - and absolutely right on all counts!

 

LORNA, yes - not LAURA. I always thought she was shorter and smaller than the 3 original Rugby boats but again I expect you are right here too. For the season (or two) when I worked there (1976/7), there were just 5 hire boats: LORNA the Teddesley, the 3 Rugby boats (LAD, LASS and LADY) all painted Post Office red with green(?) lining, and another "1 off" boat painted a dark plum/maroon, 40'-ish, and again with a "trad" rear cabin. I have a feeling that she too was somebody's private boat used in the hire fleet - maybe Julian Stanton's own boat? So was she the KLEIO?

 

Somebody must have some old photos somewhere...... And I'd still like to find out what became of Alan Green and Julian Stanton.......

 

So when you say Pete, you were "based there [sherborne Street Wharf] from 1979 to 1985", may I ask in what capacity? And where were you in 1976/77?

Ian Kemp and Andrew Boucher

 

Thanks Archie - yes the names I remember but not the faces. I need to scan those slides of Gas Street......

The earlier Brum Boats hire fleet (3 I think) were built by Rugby Boatbuilders from Hillmorton Wharf IIRC. Manager was Bob Turner (Captain Mainwaring!)

 

Right on the first count certainly, plus the LORNA and the plum coloured "trad" - see above. I don't remember Captain Mainwaring...... but I do recall being ordered about by somebody when I was working on prepping the hire boats between hirers! But then I was only one of Alan Green's students!

 

So what were you up to at that time (1976/77)?

[archie57]

By 1976 I was steering the "Brummagem Fly" aka "Corolla" for Brummagem Trip Boats, a subsidiary of Brummagem Boats, which Bob Turner set up that year. Had to struggle a bit with low water levels at times, but at least it was easy to trim the boat if you got fast in a bridgehole!

[pete harrison]

 

Hi Pete, you really are a mine of information - and absolutely right on all counts!

 

LORNA, yes - not LAURA. I always thought she was shorter and smaller than the 3 original Rugby boats but again I expect you are right here too. For the season (or two) when I worked there (1976/7), there were just 5 hire boats: LORNA the Teddesley, the 3 Rugby boats (LAD, LASS and LADY) all painted Post Office red with green(?) lining, and another "1 off" boat painted a dark plum/maroon, 40'-ish, and again with a "trad" rear cabin. I have a feeling that she too was somebody's private boat used in the hire fleet - maybe Julian Stanton's own boat? So was she the KLEIO?

 

Somebody must have some old photos somewhere...... And I'd still like to find out what became of Alan Green and Julian Stanton.......

 

So when you say Pete, you were "based there [sherborne Street Wharf] from 1979 to 1985", may I ask in what capacity? And where were you in 1976/77?

I am sure the only two 'traditional' cabined boats were LORNA and KALLIOPE, so I think it must be the latter you are referring to as KLEIO had a cruiser type 'open' stern deck. I think there may have been a few 'lease' boats in the Brummagem Boats fleet, a practice that was quite popular back then.

 

Alan Green and Julian Stanton were both still actively involved when I was last based at Sherborne Street Wharf, Alan as a sort of Engineering manager and Julian as General Manager. Brummagem Boats were absorbed into Alvechurch Boat Centre shortly after I left and I have not seen either of them since. I did see Barry Stanton a few years ago at Lapworth where he kept his new boat, and he told me that Julian's wife, Helen, had recently lost her fight with cancer.

 

From 1979 to 1985 I lived at Sherborne Street Wharf and operated a modern pair of boats (motor and butty) from underneath the old F.M.C. Ltd. bonded warehouse canopy. I was employed by the City of Birmingham Education Department and the boats were used to take kids on adventure holidays - just like camping boats but under hard cabins. If I was not busy I would help Brummagem Boats with their hire cruisers, especially on weekend turnarounds - and I was often employed by them to recover broken down / abandoned / sunken boats.

 

I returned to Sherborne Street Wharf in 1988 when my wife and I bought a Large Woolwich pair, leaving again in the summer of 1990.

 

in 1976 / 1977 I was still at school (not far from Salford Bridge) but I was actively involved with the B.C.N.S., which is how I knew Eric and Betty Foakes (Eric died recently but Betty died a few years ago). If I remember correctly the B.C.N.S. had the loan of a Smalley excavator at about this time, and it was stored at Sherborne Street Wharf along with the Society's van and tools.

 

I remember Bob Turner being at the 'B.W.B.' Shop at the top of Farmers Bridge Locks, just over the road from Tindall Bridge. I have not seen him since about 1980.

[rovingrom]

By 1976 I was steering the "Brummagem Fly" aka "Corolla" for Brummagem Trip Boats, a subsidiary of Brummagem Boats, which Bob Turner set up that year. Had to struggle a bit with low water levels at times, but at least it was easy to trim the boat if you got fast in a bridgehole!

 

This is fascinating stuff! So do you by any chance recall an exceptionally lanky (6' 6" plus), bespectacled, town planning student working the bar on the "Fly" on a few occasions during the summer of 1976? I did a few more runs that season on the other Brummagem trip boat (wasn't it the "Euphrates Packet"??) and am trying to remember who her steerer was then?

 

I recall the "Fly" being somewhat deeper draughted, and the wonderful sensation of her stern rising a foot or so through the shallower bridge holes, before dropping down again the other side. Plus using the shallower bridge holes as the best place to hook old bicycle and pram remains off the blade! Good memories!

[archie57]

Did you have a nickname then? - I must confess I remember the female bar staff better......

Various people steered the packet, such as Barry Burgess and Malcolm Wigley

[David Mack]

Between Gas Street and Aston flyover. Didn't a hire firm operate from Cuckoo Wharf at one time?

There was a short lived firm Planet Fleet Cruisers who hired narrow boats from the bottom of the Aston flight in the 1970s. I recall the boats had bright orange cabin sides, parallelogram-shaped windows, and I think may have had dark blue rather than black hulls.

 

Although I did not know them very well I recall Charlie and Marge Aldrick living at Hockley Port on an old 'wooden header' motor named RICHARD. I am sure that they had moved on by the mid 1980's.

In 1973-76 ish Charlie and Marge Aldrick's 6 planker was moored on the offside at Gas Street Basin by the Broad Street bridge. ( I say offside, as although there is a towpath both sides, that on the basin side was blocked off at this time). I seem to remember a son too - Steve?

 

The PERCH that you have mentioned is the same PERCH that has recently been restored, Hockley Port having sold it in about 1986.

In the early 70's Perch was owned by a guy called Pete Currall.

 

The wooden tug with sloping cabin ends was CHRISTOPHER JAMES, purchased in 1975 by Eric and Betty Foakes (CHRISTOPHER JAMES was the first ex-commercial 'historic' motor narrow boat that I ever steered) and was powered by 3 cylinder Armstrong Siddley air cooled diesel engine.

Eric and Betty's son Eddie worked for BW at this time. I think they later sold Christopher James to BCNS chairman John Phillips.

 

Other early Brummagem Boats hire cruisers included LAD, LADY and LASS - all about 40' and built by Rugby Boatbuilders, but again with Teddesley fibre glass cabins and Lister SR2 engines.

Brummagem Lad and Brummagem Lass were the first two hire boats. Brummagem Lady followed a little later, but was more or less identical to the other two.

[rovingrom]

I am sure the only two 'traditional' cabined boats were LORNA and KALLIOPE, so I think it must be the latter you are referring to as KLEIO had a cruiser type 'open' stern deck. I think there may have been a few 'lease' boats in the Brummagem Boats fleet, a practice that was quite popular back then.

 

Alan Green and Julian Stanton were both still actively involved when I was last based at Sherborne Street Wharf, Alan as a sort of Engineering manager and Julian as General Manager. Brummagem Boats were absorbed into Alvechurch Boat Centre shortly after I left and I have not seen either of them since. I did see Barry Stanton a few years ago at Lapworth where he kept his new boat, and he told me that Julian's wife, Helen, had recently lost her fight with cancer.

 

From 1979 to 1985 I lived at Sherborne Street Wharf and operated a modern pair of boats (motor and butty) from underneath the old F.M.C. Ltd. bonded warehouse canopy. I was employed by the City of Birmingham Education Department and the boats were used to take kids on adventure holidays - just like camping boats but under hard cabins. If I was not busy I would help Brummagem Boats with their hire cruisers, especially on weekend turnarounds - and I was often employed by them to recover broken down / abandoned / sunken boats.........

 

Thank you Pete - this is excellent stuff! Yes, you are right again - KALLIOPE was the other "trad" design hire boat. On the several occasions I was allowed to "borrow" a boat for a day (or two) just for the cost of fuel used, it was always KALLIOPE I wanted, though usually I was given one of the others!

 

I remember too the canopy over that side of the wharf but hadn't realised it was the original FMC warehouse. I seem to recall there were 2 or 3 ex-working boats tied up under it even in 1976.

 

It was running a few trips with Charlie Aldrick (I think) on NB PERCH from Hockley Port for the youth group I got involved with in Winson Green, that gave me the idea of running boating holidays for the disbled children I was later working with in Kent. During several summers in the mid '80s we hired 70' and 72' 12-berth boats from Middlewich and Willow Wren for this purpose. The best was the OAK (I think) from Middlewich - an old and deep-draughted possibly ex-working boat hull with a very solid timber top and replica boatman's cabin - something of a challenge up the Llangollen with mid-summer water shortages......

 

Reminiscing is good! I've been running a small travel company in Romania for the last 16 years - surrounded by roses and Transylvanian castles, though sadly none of them on boats. Now approaching 60 I'm thinking about a return to the English canals, an older boat with character, a real engine and a warm stove in a boatman's cabin, while I still can..... Hence the dredging in the memory archives. Many thanks for your help!

[rovingrom]

Did you have a nickname then? - I must confess I remember the female bar staff better......

Various people steered the packet, such as Barry Burgess and Malcolm Wigley

 

A nickname? I'm sure I did, but whether I was aware of it is another matter! Probably something to do with my height - "Lanky Git" most likely. There was some concern that the key stones in the bridges were at risk from frequent collisons with my forehead!

 

Its probably good that you remember only the female bar staff, but I won't ask you to elaborate - at least not in public! My private e-mail address is ........

 

Yes - Malcolm (Wigley) - he was the guy I remember steering the "Packet". I learnt some good stuff from him, mainly (not solely) about canals and the BCN. Any idea if he is still about? I owe him a debt of gratitude..... Well, a couple of pints at least!

[pete harrison]

In 1973-76 ish Charlie and Marge Aldrick's 6 planker was moored on the offside at Gas Street Basin by the Broad Street bridge. ( I say offside, as although there is a towpath both sides, that on the basin side was blocked off at this time). I seem to remember a son too - Steve?

I know what you mean as it was more awkward to get onto that side. It would be where the Rum Runner night club backed onto the canal towpath - it has all changed a bit now.

In the early 70's Perch was owned by a guy called Pete Currall.

Peter Currell owned a full length F.M.C. Ltd. motor named KESTREL from about 1970 to 1986, painted in red and yellow - and it sometimes had a removable cabin in the back end of the hold. My understanding is that PERCH passed directly from B.W.B. to the youth organisation at Hockley Port.

Eric and Betty's son Eddie worked for BW at this time. I think they later sold Christopher James to BCNS chairman John Phillips.

Correct, but it was more of a swap for Mr Phillips modern boat LONGWOOD LADY.

 

I knew Eddie but I did not know he worked for B.W.B..

Edited December 28, 2014 by pete harrison

[archie57]

 

There was a short lived firm Planet Fleet Cruisers who hired narrow boats from the bottom of the Aston flight in the 1970s. I recall the boats had bright orange cabin sides, parallelogram-shaped windows, and I think may have had dark blue rather than black hulls.

 

In 1973-76 ish Charlie and Marge Aldrick's 6 planker was moored on the offside at Gas Street Basin by the Broad Street bridge. ( I say offside, as although there is a towpath both sides, that on the basin side was blocked off at this time). I seem to remember a son too - Steve?

 

 

In the early 70's Perch was owned by a guy called Pete Currall.

 

 

Eric and Betty's son Eddie worked for BW at this time. I think they later sold Christopher James to BCNS chairman John Phillips.

 

Brummagem Lad and Brummagem Lass were the first two hire boats. Brummagem Lady followed a little later, but was more or less identical to the other two.

Are you getting the Perch mixed up with the Kestrel?

 

A nickname? I'm sure I did, but whether I was aware of it is another matter! Probably something to do with my height - "Lanky Git" most likely. There was some concern that the key stones in the bridges were at risk from frequent collisons with my forehead!

 

Its probably good that you remember only the female bar staff, but I won't ask you to elaborate - at least not in public! My private e-mail address is ........

 

Yes - Malcolm (Wigley) - he was the guy I remember steering the "Packet". I learnt some good stuff from him, mainly (not solely) about canals and the BCN. Any idea if he is still about? I owe him a debt of gratitude..... Well, a couple of pints at least!

Stringbean ring any bells?

[rovingrom]

 

There was a short lived firm Planet Fleet Cruisers who hired narrow boats from the bottom of the Aston flight in the 1970s. I recall the boats had bright orange cabin sides, parallelogram-shaped windows, and I think may have had dark blue rather than black hulls.

 

In 1973-76 ish Charlie and Marge Aldrick's 6 planker was moored on the offside at Gas Street Basin by the Broad Street bridge. ( I say offside, as although there is a towpath both sides, that on the basin side was blocked off at this time). I seem to remember a son too - Steve?

 

In the early 70's Perch was owned by a guy called Pete Currall.

 

Eric and Betty's son Eddie worked for BW at this time. I think they later sold Christopher James to BCNS chairman John Phillips.

 

Brummagem Lad and Brummagem Lass were the first two hire boats. Brummagem Lady followed a little later, but was more or less identical to the other two.

 

Thanks David - this is all most interesting!

 

- I have a vague recall of orange and dark blue hire boats on the BCN.

 

- If it was Charlie Aldrick who steered the PERCH from the Hockley Port Trust, then I'm sure he was living in or near Hockley Port by the time I got involved, in the summer of 1976 (or was it '77....). There's a photo of Charlie, Marge and son Steve in the photo album: "The BCN In Pictures" published by the BCNS in 1973 (re-published 1982). I can scan and post the pic if anybody wants to see it?

 

- There's quite a lot online about the CHRISTOPHER JAMES and other BCN tugs in the BCNS archives and at: http://inlanding.wordpress.com/2013/02/25/bcn-tugs-series-james-loader/

[rovingrom]

A nickname? I'm sure I did, but whether I was aware of it is another matter! Probably something to do with my height - "Lanky Git" most likely.

 

Stringbean ring any bells?

 

Ha ha - yes, maybe.... Or "Beanpole"?? I've been (sorry, unintended pun) called all of them in my time - and plenty more! Is "Stringbean" from your memory or have you just made it up??

[The Pipe]

A name I haven't seen or maybe missed is John Edwards. I forget which pair he had certainly the butty was a blue top.

[pete harrison]

A name I haven't seen or maybe missed is John Edwards. I forget which pair he had certainly the butty was a blue top.

John Edwards bought BEAULIEU in 1979, paired it with the Small Woolwich butty MARCELLUS in 1981 - only to be replaced by the blue top butty CAM in about 1983. John Edwards also worked for Brummagem Boats for a couple of years as their fitter, leaving in about 1985 to work for a bus company then later moving to British Waterways Board. I have not spoken with John for several years.

Edited December 28, 2014 by pete harrison

[David Mack]

Peter Currell owned a full length F.M.C. Ltd. motor named KESTREL from about 1970 to 1986, painted in red and yellow - and it sometimes had a removable cabin in the back end of the hold. My understanding is that PERCH passed directly from B.W.B. to the youth organisation at Hockley Port.

 

Are you getting the Perch mixed up with the Kestrel?

Maybe my grey cells are failing me.... Did Pete steer Perch for Hockley Port at all?

[zenataomm]

He had Beaulieu & Marcellus and then after I bought his butty he had Cam.

[The Pipe]

pete harrison, on 28 Dec 2014 - 9:00 PM, said:

John Edwards bought BEAULIEU in 1979, paired it with the Small Woolwich butty MARCELLUS in 1981 - only to be replaced by the blue top butty CAM in about 1983. John Edwards also worked for Brummagem Boats for a couple of years as their fitter, leaving in about 1985 to work for a bus company then later moving to British Waterways Board. I have not spoken with John for several years.

John is still at CRT now. I first came across him when Ian Kemp was building Gazell for me as he was at that time living at Dadfords

[archie57]

A nickname? I'm sure I did, but whether I was aware of it is another matter! Probably something to do with my height - "Lanky Git" most likely.

 

 

Ha ha - yes, maybe.... Or "Beanpole"?? I've been (sorry, unintended pun) called all of them in my time - and plenty more! Is "Stringbean" from your memory or have you just made it up??

There was a "Stringbean" about at one time. Do you remember Tony Miles who lived on the "Grace"?

[pete harrison]

He had Beaulieu & Marcellus and then after I bought his butty he had Cam.

Not strictly correct as John had the two buttys for a while, he lived on MARCELLUS with Lyn but owned CAM whilst it was being restored by Ian Kemp at Ellesmere Port. MARCELLUS was for sale for a little while after CAM was completed.