GU Recognised Tying-Up Places

[BEngo]

There were a number of recognised tying places for boats which were en-route, either loaded or for orders, along the GU, where large rings were installed at about 70ft spacing and presumably there was sufficient depth to get a loaded butty alongside. Where where they all?

 

Starters for 10:

 

Brentford

 

Bulls Bridge though not in the lay by

 

Ricky (where?)

 

Cowroast: on both the offside and the nearside above the lock

 

Maffers: Opposite the Red Lion

 

Leighton- towpath outside where Tesco is now?

 

Fenny - where exactly?

 

Cosgrove- On the towpath near the current sani station

 

Stoke Bruerne

 

Blisworth

 

Buckby Top

 

Please add any others, particularly north of Braunston, but let us try not to confuse things with later BW pleasure era 'Visitor Moorings', though I suspect some originals have been improved and turned into vistor moorings, though without the depth..

 

 

regards

 

N

[magnetman]

There are several large rings opposite Croxley Common Moor just past Rickmansworth. They are half way between the Met Line underground bridge and Common Moor lock, on the tow path side. They are really big rings. Its now too shallow to moor there now due to the amount of railway related ballast dumped in the canal from the old sidings.

[alan_fincher]

Not sure if they were a "recognised tying up place" in the spirit you mean.....

 

On Tring summit, opposite the former buffer depots, (just past New Ground bridge), there is a long piled length with rings. (Very popular with continuous cruisers, these days!).

 

Presumably it was used by boats awaiting their unloading turn at the buffer depots on the other side of the cut - it would seem to have no other purpose.

 

You can't wind a 70 footer here, so boats visiting the buffer depots would have had to continue to the end of the summit to turn.

 

Incidentally, in the 1970s, BW maintenance crews fed up with having to take 70 foot boats to one end of the summit or other to turn, dredged an unofficial winding hole just before Tring station bridge, going north - I'm not sure I'd like to try winding a full 70 footer there now, but it is still a useful facility if you are a little shorter than that.

 

Also (off topic), I have never understood if Berkhamsted was the official Northern point for barge traffic, why the winding hole in Berkhamsted, (outside the station), is never recognised by BW, or most of the cruising guides. It's a proper 70 foot hole, just not marked on maps.

[Hairy-Neil]

I believe the loaded coal bosts used to tie up at Cassio Bridge and await instruction to discharge at Croxley Mill.

[Derek R.]

Also (off topic), I have never understood if Berkhamsted was the official Northern point for barge traffic, why the winding hole in Berkhamsted, (outside the station), is never recognised by BW, or most of the cruising guides. It's a proper 70 foot hole, just not marked on maps.

 

I'm sure there was wide boat traffic to points further North, and it's something I've read about recently - a mill near Wolverton perhaps, or sand barges from Linslade? Though Berkhamsted was recognised as a point beyond which wide traffic did not usually pass, I don't think it was ever 'official'.

 

 

There are several large rings opposite Croxley Common Moor just past Rickmansworth. They are half way between the Met Line underground bridge and Common Moor lock, on the tow path side. They are really big rings. Its now too shallow to moor there now due to the amount of railway related ballast dumped in the canal from the old sidings.

 

They may well have been placed to tie barges loaded with Esparto Grass up from Brentford and awaiting their turn to unload. Mostly horse drawn, John Wilson who lives at Cassio, used to lead the horses along with his Father.

[Derek R.]

Ricky (where?)

 

Maffers: Opposite the Red Lion

 

Leighton- towpath outside where Tesco is now?

 

Fenny - where exactly?

 

(snipped)

 

Ricky: above Batchworth lock towpath side.

Maffers: Sure you're not getting the Red Lion in Marsworth Village mixed up with the White Lion beside the cut at the bottom of the seven below bridge 132? Mind you, there are Rings along by The Ship Shop 'as was' (formerly PH), and across the bridge 130 and along a bit is the Red Lion.

Leighton: Yes, also back before the road bridge by the filled in entrance to Brantom's dock.

Fenny: Most likely below the lock - more room. But like Ricky, it might depend on which way you were headed.

[BEngo]

Maffers: Sure you're not getting the Red Lion in Marsworth Village mixed up with the White Lion beside the cut at the bottom of the seven below bridge 132? Mind you, there are Rings along by The Ship Shop 'as was' (formerly PH), and across the bridge 130 and along a bit is the Red Lion.

 

Derek,

 

We are talking about the same spot here- along the concrete edged towpath from bridge 129 to 130. The Red Lion is at bridge 130 and I thought it was a better modern reference than The Ship (in which I suspect you may have had a pint whilst I was only able to buy an icecream!)

 

N

[John Orentas]

I think we should be very cautious about talking about "Recognised Tying-Up Places".. The right to moor exactly where you please, within reason has always been jealously guarded on the waterways.. Already we have BW talking about "The cruising season".. As a society we try correct BW whenever they use that phrase in meetings.

 

In the last few months I have heard BW representatives seriously suggesting that the canal (the Rochdale in this case) should be closed on Sundays.. You must be on your guard.

[Derek R.]

Derek,

 

We are talking about the same spot here- along the concrete edged towpath from bridge 129 to 130. The Red Lion is at bridge 130 and I thought it was a better modern reference than The Ship (in which I suspect you may have had a pint whilst I was only able to buy an icecream!)

 

N

 

Blimey - not that old!! But I do remember getting ice creams there. Edit: I think the Red Lion is still rated the better of the two.

 

I think we should be very cautious about talking about "Recognised Tying-Up Places".. The right to moor exactly where you please, within reason has always been jealously guarded on the waterways..

(snipped)

 

I will agree with that, but the first paragraph of the original post does refer to those places used during commercial boating days - a different time, and in many ways a different place. One that crops up in Jean Peters recollections is that of The Black Boy pub below Knowle. They must have tied between 69 & 70 near the winding hole, and taken a walk up Bakers Lane to the pub on Warwick Road.

 

Many of those regular stopping points are now either temporary or permanent moorings. Can't turn the clock back, though slowing its hands might be useful.

Edited August 27, 2008 by Derek R.

[Hairy-Neil]

I think we should be very cautious about talking about "Recognised Tying-Up Places".. The right to moor exactly where you please, within reason has always been jealously guarded on the waterways.. Already we have BW talking about "The cruising season".. As a society we try correct BW whenever they use that phrase in meetings.

 

John, you're having a senior moment.

 

This is posted in the 'History and Heritage' forum. We are talking about how it was done in the days of carrying boats here.....

 

 

Pedant's Corner.....

 

The White lion is at Startops End, not Marsworth.....

[Derek R.]

Pedant's Corner.....

 

The White lion is at Startops End, not Marsworth.....

 

I bet three penn'uth of chips I could spit from one to the other . . .

 

Thinks: I might just have to cough up three old pennies for that!!

Edited August 27, 2008 by Derek R.

[Derek R.]

(snip)

Bulls Bridge though not in the lay by

 

That's right - I read it was just around the corner - turn right from Paddington and tie on the towpath.

[alan_fincher]

Pedant's Corner.....

 

The White lion is at Startops End, not Marsworth.....

Blimey!

 

Depends on how you measure it, I guess....

 

It's postal address is, I believe, Startop's End, Marsworth, but in terms of road signs, the one you drive past shortly before reaching it says "Marsworth", and I don't believe the "Startop's End" name figures on any place name or direction signs.

 

A bit too pedantic for me, although I can't resist saying it's Startop's End, (with an apostrophe), not Startops End!

 

(Keep 'em coming, though! )

Edited August 27, 2008 by alan_fincher

[Derek R.]

Blimey!

 

(snip)

A bit too pedantic for me, although I can't resist saying it's Startop's End, (with an apostrophe), not Startops End!

 

(Keep 'em coming, though! )

 

And if we're being correct, we ought to be pronouncing it as the indigenous locals did - "Starrupsend". (stretching' the topic a bit )

[Hairy-Neil]

Blimey!

 

Depends on how you measure it, I guess....

 

It's postal address is, I believe, Startop's End, Marsworth, but in terms of road signs, the one you drive past shortly before reaching it says "Marsworth", and I don't believe the "Startop's End" name figures on any place name or direction signs.

 

A bit too pedantic for me, although I can't resist saying it's Startop's End, (with an apostrophe), not Startops End!

 

(Keep 'em coming, though! )

 

Put Startops End into Streetmap.co.uk and it comes up with the following.....

 

http://streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=491926...mapp=newmap.srf

 

It doesn't recognise Startop's end.....

 

 

BTW, I heard on the news last week someone was up in court for 'correcting' the grammar on street signs. They were fined and ordered to pay compensation for the cost of replacing the signs.....

[alan_fincher]

Obviously you consider Streetmap.Co.UK more accurate than the Ordnance Survey then

[Ray]

The OS map certainly separates Marsworth and Startop's End - spelling as shown on the map.

 

The winding hole by Tring station was, by the mid eighties only just able to take an empty 56ft long wide beam trip boat, partly because the summit level was always low and partly because the off side was badly silted up. We frequently had to go to the extreme north end of the buffer depot to turn, something that was only just possible there. In fact, in those days, the trip boat used to run mainly to Cowroast to turn, so my memory about the date is probably wrong and it could have been the early nineties before we cut back to Tring Station/Buffer depot (instead of Cowroast). I have a vague recollection that on at least one occasion I had to take the loaded 45ft narrow beam trip boat to the Buffer depot to turn because I couldn't turn at Tring station.

 

The winding hole has been dredged within the last ten years, but I don't think it was ever large enough to turn a full length boat there. Having said that, the piling on the offside, which has to my knowledge been there since the mid eighties, may have been a late addition to stop the cutting side dropping into the water. Even now, I'd be surprised if you could get much more than a 60ft boat round there, even with your nose on the offside piling.

[alan_fincher]

Hi Ray,

 

With apologies to original poster for staying .

 

I'm wondering if we are talking about the same unofficial winding hole near Tring Station, (although I only know of one) ?

 

"Ours" is a few hundred yards before Tring Station bridge, going North, (handly if we want to get the engine fully warmed up, to prove some engineering changes, but haven't got time for the full summit trip...)

 

I've no memory of any piling added there on the non towpath side, but that may just be that I'm not that observant.

 

It was I believe created by BW maintenance crews in the 1970s, and used to turn the full length (71' 6") boats Cambourne & Saltaire. The owner of the full length horse barge trip boat Ben Klibrech, (which was just about as big as would fit a GU lock), always an opportunist, was quick to make regular use of it too, on night-time booze cruises.

 

We are only a 50 footer, but I have turned there easily with a narrow boat moored behind us on the towpath side, so at least 60 foot must still be possible, if not drawing much at the front.

 

A boat with anything other than minimal draft at the front would not be able to get it's bows anything like as far towards dry land, though.

 

You are correct that summit level, which is often up and down like a yo-yo, will have a big effect on how long a boat could use it.

 

BTW, the actual location of the White Lion pub is a moot point I think. It could be in Startop's End, Marsworth or both, depending on how you chose to define a place.

 

Alan

[Ray]

Only been to Tring to turn once this year and only once last year if I remember correctly.

 

I'm sure there was (metal) sheet piling (if that's what you call it) on the offside there.

 

Its many a year since I stood on the bow when we turn - these days I'm at the back! However, still wonder if you could get a 70ft round there. Maybe when first installed, but I doubt it now.

 

Never even knew about the other trip boat. You learn something every day.

 

I wonder what the address of the Anglers Retreat is? I always thought that Marsworth became Startop's End in the area bounded by the Aylesbury Arm and the Road. I've also heard t referred to as Startop's End, Marsworth. Perhaps its a suburb of Marsworth!

[Bullfrog]

I wonder what the address of the Anglers Retreat is? I always thought that Marsworth became Startop's End in the area bounded by the Aylesbury Arm and the Road. I've also heard t referred to as Startop's End, Marsworth. Perhaps its a suburb of Marsworth!

 

My favourite pub when we are boating:-

 

Anglers Retreat

Address: Startops End, Marsworth, Tring, Hertfordshire, HP23 4LJ

Tel: 01442 822250

 

I would normally link to their excellent web-site but it's under re-construction so try this instead:-

 

http://www.britishpubguide.com/cgi-bin/pub...hamshire:101003

Edited August 29, 2008 by Bullfrog

[alan_fincher]

My favourite pub when we are boating:-

 

Anglers Retreat

Address: Startops End, Marsworth, Tring, Hertfordshire, HP23 4LJ

Interesting postal eddress, David.

 

It has a Tring (HP23) and ultimately Hemel Hempstead (HP) post code.

 

However no part of Marsworth, including Startop's End, has to my knowledge ever been in Hertfordshire.

 

Marsworth village, including Startop's End is part of Buckinghamshire.

 

Both the Angler's Retreat, (I can't remember it's original name, the Queen's Head, possibly?), and the White Lion lie very close to, but inside, the Bucks boundary.

 

I think the answer is that both are in Startop's End, being part of Marsworth parish. Postally they have a (Tring) Hertfordshire post code, but they have always been in another county.

 

I'm very interested in the history of this part of both Herts & Bucks as my paternal grandfather's family are from Tring (Herts) and my paternal grandmother's family from the villages surrounding it (Bucks). Several of the Fincher boatmen who appear in 19th century censuses were born either in Tring or Marsworth, and although I'm likely distantly related to all of them, I've not yet been able to prove it.

 

If any of the information I've given about the area is wrong, I'd be very happy to stand corrected.

 

Anorak going back to the cupboard now....

 

Alan

[Lesd]

Startop's End

 

Pronounced ''Sturrups end'' so Im told !!

[Hairy-Neil]

Interesting postal eddress, David.

 

It has a Tring (HP23) and ultimately Hemel Hempstead (HP) post code.

 

However no part of Marsworth, including Startop's End, has to my knowledge ever been in Hertfordshire.

 

I live in Mid Lincolnshire, yet have a Nottingham (NG) post code. Nottingham is over 40 mles away and I'm even a good 20 miles outside the county of Nottinghamshire. The neighbouring village to me has a Peterborough (PE) postcode, Peterborough is also 40 miles distant and I'm some 30 miles outside Cambridgeshire. The next village to that, less than 5 miles away has a Lincoln (LN) one.

 

Post codes are just that, they were intended to help with delivery of the mail.

Edited August 29, 2008 by Hairy-Neil

[Derek R.]

Here's another - Below Coppermill Lock No. 84: from Margaret Cornish (Ridout) http://tinyurl.com/59rm7o

Could have been just the trainees, though I suspect they followed regular crews places.

 

Interesting/boring statistic for you - at their height, 30 pairs of boats were run by Wartime trainees (sounds too many, wonder if that's right), but only six trainees lasted the full three years to '45, and only one went on and stayed - Sonia, who became Smith, later Rolt.

Edited September 5, 2008 by Derek R.

[alan_fincher]

Interesting/boring statistic for you - at their height, 30 pairs of boats were run by Wartime trainees (sounds too many, wonder if that's right

I've always believed the number to be a lot less than that, but couldn't quote a source.

 

Hopefully their layover at Coppermill was south of the bridge, rather than near that really nasty weir inlet, just below the lock, that always seems to catch me out, even though I know full well how bad it can be

 

In considering places on the GU that have long established steel mooring rings in the towpath, I noted this was the case where Tony (TeeELL) was moored up just south of Peartree Bridge. I'd say they pre-date pleasure boating.