CB Radio

[NB Willawaw]

I don't quite understand why people wouldn't use VHF.  Small handhelds are cheap, have more range than pmr, and (should be) compulsory on tidal waters such as the trent.

 

£50 for a cobra unit - old, non-dsc fixed units can be picked up for similar amounts.

Sure, currently you need a ships license - erm, it's all of £20 a year.  Operator courses are one day - they can be free, I was offered a place on one by the local motor yacht club, next time they have a training day (currently I have a cute little radio officer to do the work for me, ).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Alastair,

 

I was a Radio Officer when ships still had such things, but cute - no I think thats going a little far !!

 

We have fixed VHF onboard and of course, its far superior in many respects and it really comes into its own on tidal and coastal passages - I fully agree with you about its use.

However, people won't fit marine VHF on a wide scale on inland waterways - I can only guess as to why. As you say the licence fee is not much and it will be free soon.

 

One should remember that even marine VHF only works on line of sight, so if the antenna is low (handheld on the stern of a NB), the range won't be very much above a few miles on inland waterways.

Also, the UHF frequency of PMR446 will penetrate brickwork much better than marine VHF due to the different absorbtion of the radio waves for the two frequency bands. The main difference is the power. PMR446 is limited to 0.5W whereas handhelds are normally up to 5W and fixed sets are 25W.

 

John has got the wrong end of the stick. I didn't advocate CB Radio - I was referring to Canal Boat Radio as prescribed by the NB Soma. The owner of her was talking about PMR Radios in the canal mags.

 

As to the concern about range from Khayamanzi, yes the range is poor, but I think the PMR446 are mainly ideal for use when you can see the other boat in the distance or you are both approaching opposite sides of a bridge 'ole.

If the range was too great, the interference from other stations would increase.

I suspect the limited range and the use of CTCSS tones stop the 8 channels getting swamped.

 

Just thought I'd interject.

 

Best Regards

 

Mark

[Alastair]

Yeah, I remember that you said you were a Radio Officer.

 

I still insist that *my* Radio Officer is cute. Well, gorgeous, might be a better word.

[Yamanx]

Went out and bought some (Cheapish) walkie talkies, or PMR, on these frequencies so I'll monitor channel 8 and see if it becomes widespread.

[NB Willawaw]

Went out and bought some (Cheapish) walkie talkies, or PMR, on these frequencies so I'll monitor channel 8 and see if it becomes widespread.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Good for you mate.

Don't forget to set the CTCSS tone to 8 as well as channel 8 otherwise you won't hear a thing as the squelch won't lift. The same goes for Ch7 tone 7.

 

Let us know how you get on.

We are off the boat at the moment. I had to make a business trip up North so we used it as an opportunity to ride the Falkirk Wheel which was really great.

 

When we get back to Willawaw , we are going to continue monitoring.

It will only work if people join in (no I haven't get shares in manufacturers of PMR radio's).

 

Mark

[Orca]

So whatever happened to PMR446 - has it become widespread??? I see a few boaters at locks with the handheld units (occassionally). Personally, we use good old fashioned CB (27/81) on half watt, with a base unit on the boat and the missus with a handheld (where really required, which tbh isn't often!) As was said in 05 on this thread, hardly anyone ever uses it compared to the old days and most of the idiots have long gone thankfully!

[pirate paul]

What on earth is going on here, the thread started off by someone advocating the use of CB radio.

 

PMR446, T5412, T5512, CTC5s. Is all this a different system or are people merely reciting model numbers. There must be thousands of perfectly good CB sets out there with 30 channels, why start talking about other systems.

How about taking the bull by the horns and having gates bridges and paddles which open and close at the click of a dongle. Obviously electro hydrolic

 

(sorry c ap at spelling cant get hyd etc spell cheque says know)

 

mechanisms would need to be hidden but its easy to do everyone using the system would be able to come and go with perfect timing, Text communication would lead to more risky one to one radio.

CCTV at trouble spots in the cities a possible option.

Is it possible to increase the number of channels on these radios, I dont mean has it been done yet but is it possible.

[RobinR]

Is it possible to increase the number of channels on these radios, I dont mean has it been done yet but is it possible.

 

In a word - no.

 

We have used 446 MHz for a number of years. My son dropped one of our pair in the canal last year and a matching replacement pair cost £3.75 on e-bay. Our shared boat is on the K&A this year where we used Ch 8 throughout our 3 weeks but were unable to contact another boat whereas I had a number of contacts with my amateur equipment ranging from a local contact of 20 miles on 1.8 MHz to a contact into central Canada on 14MHz. I hoped the unusual lock emptying arrangements on the K&A would have encouraged other users onto 446MHz as this may have prevented some unnecessary emptying of locks but nothing heard on these frequencies.

 

A word of warning when purchasing on e-bay or at car boot sales etc, European equipment operates on frequencies in the 446MHz range. This is allocated to the Amateur service in North America so don't use ours over there additionally PMR equipment from North America uses frequencies allocated to the emergency services in the UK - police, fire service etc so check before you buy second hand and don't bring any back from an overseas trip - they are not legal here unless purchased in the EU no matter how well they may work as a pair!

[nb Innisfree]

Bought 2 pairs of PMRs 8km range for £29.98 at Aldi, same ones at Argos £29.99 a pair

[pirate paul]

In a word - no.

 

We have used 446 MHz for a number of years. My son dropped one of our pair in the canal last year and a matching replacement pair cost £3.75 on e-bay. Our shared boat is on the K&A this year where we used Ch 8 throughout our 3 weeks but were unable to contact another boat whereas I had a number of contacts with my amateur equipment ranging from a local contact of 20 miles on 1.8 MHz to a contact into central Canada on 14MHz. I hoped the unusual lock emptying arrangements on the K&A would have encouraged other users onto 446MHz as this may have prevented some unnecessary emptying of locks but nothing heard on these frequencies.

 

A word of warning when purchasing on e-bay or at car boot sales etc, European equipment operates on frequencies in the 446MHz range. This is allocated to the Amateur service in North America so don't use ours over there additionally PMR equipment from North America uses frequencies allocated to the emergency services in the UK - police, fire service etc so check before you buy second hand and don't bring any back from an overseas trip - they are not legal here unless purchased in the EU no matter how well they may work as a pair!

[pirate paul]

In a word - no.

 

We have used 446 MHz for a number of years. My son dropped one of our pair in the canal last year and a matching replacement pair cost £3.75 on e-bay. Our shared boat is on the K&A this year where we used Ch 8 throughout our 3 weeks but were unable to contact another boat whereas I had a number of contacts with my amateur equipment ranging from a local contact of 20 miles on 1.8 MHz to a contact into central Canada on 14MHz. I hoped the unusual lock emptying arrangements on the K&A would have encouraged other users onto 446MHz as this may have prevented some unnecessary emptying of locks but nothing heard on these frequencies.

 

A word of warning when purchasing on e-bay or at car boot sales etc, European equipment operates on frequencies in the 446MHz range. This is allocated to the Amateur service in North America so don't use ours over there additionally PMR equipment from North America uses frequencies allocated to the emergency services in the UK - police, fire service etc so check before you buy second hand and don't bring any back from an overseas trip - they are not legal here unless purchased in the EU no matter how well they may work as a pair!

I just replied to this post but my comment did not come out.... try again

 

I challenge you to prove the negative, I do not have time to prove the positive, and am not sure I can.

With digital it should be possible to transmit and receive much more information on this wave band .... pictures too.

It is not only frequency but also wave form, with analogue AM radio there can only be one carrier wave form but with digital there can be (I would not like to quote a number) lots of different distinct and individual wave forms.

[carlt]

I challenge you to prove the negative, I do not have time to prove the positive, and am not sure I can.

If you can't prove it then it aint going to happen.

 

Robin doesn't need to prove anything.

[RobinR]

Good for you mate.

Don't forget to set the CTCSS tone to 8 as well as channel 8 otherwise you won't hear a thing as the squelch won't lift. The same goes for Ch7 tone 7.

 

Let us know how you get on.

We are off the boat at the moment. I had to make a business trip up North so we used it as an opportunity to ride the Falkirk Wheel which was really great.

 

When we get back to Willawaw , we are going to continue monitoring.

It will only work if people join in (no I haven't get shares in manufacturers of PMR radio's).

 

Mark

 

I do not see the reason for activating the CTCSS feature in the first place - what is the benefit? Older and lower cost products do not incorporate this feature which can be disabled as far as I am aware thus users with it enabled will not hear responses or calls from users who either do not have it or who have disabled it. Usage is low enough without placing an additional restriction re some users and adds additional ones for those who do not understand how to manage this option!!

[Orca]

I do not see the reason for activating the CTCSS feature in the first place - what is the benefit? Older and lower cost products do not incorporate this feature which can be disabled as far as I am aware thus users with it enabled will not hear responses or calls from users who either do not have it or who have disabled it. Usage is low enough without placing an additional restriction re some users and adds additional ones for those who do not understand how to manage this option!!

 

 

I don't think any kind of radio system should ever be officially adopted on the canals; in my honest opinion it simply does not warrant it!! All I meant was by dredging this post up after 4 years was that as individuals we occassionally use CB, as that is more than adequate where necessary! Just as those who choose to use the PRM handhelds on an autonomous basis. As I live on the boat, I also like to use it for traffic reports locally, as currently I am a lorry driver.

[Digipete]

I do not see the reason for activating the CTCSS feature in the first place - what is the benefit? Older and lower cost products do not incorporate this feature which can be disabled as far as I am aware thus users with it enabled will not hear responses or calls from users who either do not have it or who have disabled it. Usage is low enough without placing an additional restriction re some users and adds additional ones for those who do not understand how to manage this option!!

 

I can agree with this statement. I also disagree with trying to change to a different frequency right in the middle of things. I would personally suggest using channel 8 with no code for everything, lock coordination, passing, hazards in the canal and what not. That way everybody in range hears what is going on and can make plans accordingly. As soon as you add frequency jumps into the mix with untrained radio operators you are asking for trouble. If you want to simply chat with someone, I.E. talk about sports, the weather, or that strange growth on the back of your leg, you then move over to whatever frequency suits your fancy. this is what PMR446 is there for.

 

Basically this is not a proffessional radio service, and the people that have the most to gain from using it are far from proffesionaly trained, therefore follow the KISS principal. Keep It Simple, Stupid!

[Tinally]

I use a pair of Binatone Terrain PMRs. I've had them for a couple of years now and they are in daily use to allow my wife to contact me when I'm out in the grounds. They have proved very reliable and have a good range in open countryside. Changing channels is a bit of a fiddle and if I'm manouvering the boat I wouldn't want to be try to go from 8.8 to 7.7 with one hand while trying to pay attention to my course! I suggest sticking to channel 8.....I doubt if you will find it crowded! I also have a fixed CB on the boat but am loathe to have it on when I have family and freinds aboard the boat, because the foul mouthed are alive and well and seem to have congragated in the Boston area. ( A lorry driver recently called in a report of traffic congestion in the middle of Boston, and you just would not believe the tirade of abuse he got for his trouble ! ) We have VHF as well, mainly for use in tidal waters. It is important to monitor the shipping channels when you are in the company of seagoing vessels!!

 

Dick

[mayalld]

I just replied to this post but my comment did not come out.... try again

 

I challenge you to prove the negative, I do not have time to prove the positive, and am not sure I can.

With digital it should be possible to transmit and receive much more information on this wave band .... pictures too.

It is not only frequency but also wave form, with analogue AM radio there can only be one carrier wave form but with digital there can be (I would not like to quote a number) lots of different distinct and individual wave forms.

 

There is one small problem here.

 

The band is licenced ONLY for voice transmission

 

Any attempt to transmit digital data at this frequncy band would be an unlicenced and illegal transmission.

[RobinR]

I just replied to this post but my comment did not come out.... try again

 

I challenge you to prove the negative, I do not have time to prove the positive, and am not sure I can.

With digital it should be possible to transmit and receive much more information on this wave band .... pictures too.

It is not only frequency but also wave form, with analogue AM radio there can only be one carrier wave form but with digital there can be (I would not like to quote a number) lots of different distinct and individual wave forms.

 

The requirements are outlined in this OFCOM document for 446Mhz equipment and this OFCOM document for 27 MHz CB equipment. It is possible to modify both types but this will require the posession of an Amateur Radio Licence . So, to answer your question, I can modify the equipment to operate within amateur allocations should I wish to do so but most readers of this probably can not.

 

We have 3 handhelds thus can talk between the steerer, inside the boat and crew operating locks, swing bridges etc. During times of water shortage advance knowledge of an approaching boat can be beneficial but even with abundant water, this communication systen can surely be mutually beneficial and standardising 446MHz Ch8 without CTCSS enabled is a very good starting place?

 

Digital technology is available but the cost probably not justified. My Yaesu FT817 tranceiver can receive all the 27MHz and 446MHz channels AM, FM, SSB, CW and Digi Modes (and transmit within licenced amateur bands). I also have a number of digital modes - transmit and receive - available including vioce but there are no authorised transmitions in any 27MHz and 446MHz channels. Does this answer your question?

[pirate paul]

The requirements are outlined in this OFCOM document for 446Mhz equipment and this OFCOM document for 27 MHz CB equipment. It is possible to modify both types but this will require the posession of an Amateur Radio Licence . So, to answer your question, I can modify the equipment to operate within amateur allocations should I wish to do so but most readers of this probably can not.

 

We have 3 handhelds thus can talk between the steerer, inside the boat and crew operating locks, swing bridges etc. During times of water shortage advance knowledge of an approaching boat can be beneficial but even with abundant water, this communication systen can surely be mutually beneficial and standardising 446MHz Ch8 without CTCSS enabled is a very good starting place?

 

Digital technology is available but the cost probably not justified. My Yaesu FT817 tranceiver can receive all the 27MHz and 446MHz channels AM, FM, SSB, CW and Digi Modes (and transmit within licenced amateur bands). I also have a number of digital modes - transmit and receive - available including vioce but there are no authorised transmitions in any 27MHz and 446MHz channels. Does this answer your question?

 

So it is possible, but the price is too high and you need a licence.

 

One of the other posts mentioned computer co ordination, I think this is the way forward.

[carlt]

One of the other posts mentioned computer co ordination, I think this is the way forward.

For who?

[RobinR]

One of the other posts mentioned computer co ordination, I think this is the way forward.

 

The technology is for the digital component to be incorporated into an FM or SSB transmission and resolved at the receiver. This encoding / decoding can be a module built into the tranceiver, a dedicated module connected to the michrophone input and audio output of a tranciever or a PC/Laptop running the required programme connected to the michrophone input and audio output of a tranciever. As with all commercial digital technology, data is imposed on an analogue signal so we have not actually got away from analogue principles yet!!

[Iain_S]

The technology is for the digital component to be incorporated into an FM or SSB transmission and resolved at the receiver. This encoding / decoding can be a module built into the tranceiver, a dedicated module connected to the michrophone input and audio output of a tranciever or a PC/Laptop running the required programme connected to the michrophone input and audio output of a tranciever. As with all commercial digital technology, data is imposed on an analogue signal so we have not actually got away from analogue principles yet!!

 

But we would have got away from F3E, (Frequency Modulation, single analogue, telephony) the only mode authorised for PMR on 446MHz.

 

Iain

Edited August 14, 2009 by Iain_S