Hi all,

 

As bit of a continuation of my other post, I've been wondering how much it would cost to convert an ex-hire boat in good conditions to a livable home. 

 

I assume the two biggest things are:

- Installing a multi-fuel stove - from £1,500 -> https://salamanderstoves.com/product/canal-boat-stove-kit/ - I imagine the hearth can be done fairly cheaply?
- Solar and new batteries, from £4,000 for a decent budget installation?

 

Is there anything else big I should be budgeting for?

 

Thanks!

 

Increasing the amount of storage while reducing the number of beds (if necessary).

16 minutes ago, Marc34 said:

Hi all,

 

As bit of a continuation of my other post, I've been wondering how much it would cost to convert an ex-hire boat in good conditions to a livable home. 

 

I assume the two biggest things are:

- Installing a multi-fuel stove - from £1,500 -> https://salamanderstoves.com/product/canal-boat-stove-kit/ - I imagine the hearth can be done fairly cheaply?
- Solar and new batteries, from £4,000 for a decent budget installation?

 

Is there anything else big I should be budgeting for?

 

Thanks!

 

 

Wondering why you think a multi fuel stove is needed? If the boat currently has diesel fired CH then why not leave it in.

 

As for solar and batteries why not do it in a phased way, upgraded the existing batteries and do a power use survey. Will you be cruising a lot? If so then how much solar do you need? Don't forget that in winter when you're less likely to be moving solar will be generating much less.

7 minutes ago, StephenA said:

 

Wondering why you think a multi fuel stove is needed? If the boat currently has diesel fired CH then why not leave it in.

 

As for solar and batteries why not do it in a phased way, upgraded the existing batteries and do a power use survey. Will you be cruising a lot? If so then how much solar do you need? Don't forget that in winter when you're less likely to be moving solar will be generating much less.

I do like the idea of a stove because it's cozy, but also I think it's quite a bit cheaper? I've also been told that diesel heating sometimes struggles in very cold weather.

 

Some of you might groan, but I'm in the London area so likely not a huge amount of cruising...

I think I paid about £4K to upgrade my boat, so I think you will be OK with that sort of money.

It is likely the batteries will need to be replaced. I have leisure agm, but not purchased from Halfords, lol.

You should already have a decent instalation of electrics, so probably could manage with a decent matched solar kit. If you intend to move every few days, as was my intention then solar about 550, ie two panels might be fine. If you want to live off grid not moving much to charge the batteries you either need more panels or change over to Lithium batteries, either way you will be well in to four figures plus labour. Best to go for quality materials.  Kits are available, eg Bimble, which will give you an idea, I would have the cables fitted professionally, and buy the kit from one supplier.

 

I have Webasto heater, and radiators, I use them for background. Very noisy if it comes on during the night. Boat soon gets cold in depths of winter.

Diesel is currently over $100 a barrel, this will mean you will be cheaper to rely on smokeless fuel (# takes an hour to heat, then keeps you toasty all day).

Some stoves are multifuel, I buy kindling, logs and o sls, £50 per week 24/7, I use the webasto radiators about ten hours per month, about 0.3l per hour 

37 minutes ago, Marc34 said:

Hi all,

 

As bit of a continuation of my other post, I've been wondering how much it would cost to convert an ex-hire boat in good conditions to a livable home. 

 

I assume the two biggest things are:

- Installing a multi-fuel stove - from £1,500 -> https://salamanderstoves.com/product/canal-boat-stove-kit/ - I imagine the hearth can be done fairly cheaply?
- Solar and new batteries, from £4,000 for a decent budget installation?

 

Is there anything else big I should be budgeting for?

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

we bought an ex hire boat which had been converted, the previous owner had had the work done at a boat yard and the invoices were in the 'pack'

 

To remove the pump out tank, reinstate the floor, rebuild the bed as a cross bed with cupboard below, install a cassette toilet, build a wardrobe for folding bikes in the space made by rotating the bed.

 

Cost £11,000 - this was about 15 years ago

 

 

This was Juno in her 'hire boat life'

 

I would be checking what insulation has been fitted to the hire boat, especially if it is quite old, as many seem to be poorly insulated compared to what is done to "private" boats now.

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

we bought an ex hire boat which had been converted, the previous owner had had the work done at a boat yard and the invoices were in the 'pack'

 

To remove the pump out tank, reinstate the floor, rebuild the bed as a cross bed with cupboard below, install a cassette toilet, build a wardrobe for folding bikes in the space made by rotating the bed.

 

Cost £11,000 - this was about 15 years ago

 

 

This was Juno in her 'hire boat life'

 

 Thanks, interesting! More like £20k in today's money then.., although I assume most of the will have been labour!

 

The boat I'm looking at would likely not require any major changes in layout (at least not immediately) and the stuff I'd like to to do (like putting in new flooring I'd be confident doing myself).

4 minutes ago, Marc34 said:

 Thanks, interesting! More like £20k in today's money then.., although I assume most of the will have been labour!

 

The boat I'm looking at would likely not require any major changes in layout (at least not immediately) and the stuff I'd like to to do (like putting in new flooring I'd be confident doing myself).

Do you need to rip the toilet out and rebuild the beds.

8 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Do you need to rip the toilet out and rebuild the beds.

Probably not? It's got a 300L pump out which I reckon should be workable with mostly one person on board.

Edited September 21Sep 21 by Marc34

Larger hire boats usually have 2 toilets, one can be taken out to increase interior space.

56 minutes ago, StephenA said:

 

Wondering why you think a multi fuel stove is needed? If the boat currently has diesel fired CH then why not leave it in.

Because IanD has told him that MOST boaters don't like diesel heating.

 

There will be lots of hire boats coming to the market soon, ABC are selling 14, GU Narrowboats 2, Wyvern a few more, etc.

Edited September 21Sep 21 by matty40s

3 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Larger hire boats usually have 2 toilets, one can be taken out to increase interior space.

Because IanD has told him that MOST boaters don't like diesel heating.

 

There will be lots of hire boats coming to the market soon, ABC are selling 14, GU Narrowboats 2, Wyvern a few more, etc.

 

That's good to know! Would you reckon it'd be worth holding out a bit longer?

 

I'm going to view a 2008 ABC-built boat (first with ABC now with a hire company near London). Is it true that most of them don't have anodes fitted?

1 hour ago, matty40s said:

Larger hire boats usually have 2 toilets, one can be taken out to increase interior space.

Because IanD has told him that MOST boaters don't like diesel heating.

 

There will be lots of hire boats coming to the market soon, ABC are selling 14, GU Narrowboats 2, Wyvern a few more, etc.

Because MOST of them don't, going by boaters I've spoken to and MOST posters on CWDF -- are you seriously denying this?

 

That doesn't mean diesel heating isn't fine if it suits you, and it's done properly -- which many aren't, they're done on the cheap and it shows. Almost all hire boats have diesel heating (Webasto, Eberspacher) and that's fine for them, but maybe not so good for a year-round liveaboard -- at least, according to MOST posters on here.

 

OTOH I have a diesel CH boiler*** which works very well and and I'm perfectly happy with it... 🙂 

 

*** a pressure-jet one with a domestic-style CH controller, maybe too expensive for MOST boaters... 😉 

Edited September 21Sep 21 by IanD

48 minutes ago, Marc34 said:

Probably not? It's got a 300L pump out which I reckon should be workable with mostly one person on board.

 

But you do realise that having a pump-out tank means you have to leave your mooring and take the boat to a marina (or place with a working pump out machine) pay your £50 and then motor back to find your mooring has 'gone', you then need to spend hours looking for an empty mooring spot, which could be miles away from where you want to be.

 

with a cassette toilet you can take it and empty it (free of charge) in any toilet or elsan - you can even put it in a bag and take it on the tube and empty it at work. (you only take the cassette - not the complete toilet !)

19 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

But you do realise that having a pump-out tank means you have to leave your mooring and take the boat to a marina (or place with a working pump out machine) pay your £50 and then motor back to find your mooring has 'gone', you then need to spend hours looking for an empty mooring spot, which could be miles away from where you want to be.

 

with a cassette toilet you can take it and empty it (free of charge) in any toilet or elsan - you can even put it in a bag and take it on the tube and empty it at work. (you only take the cassette - not the complete toilet !)

Pump-outs are typically about £25 -- but they do have the problem of having to take the boat to a possibly-remote pumpout station every few weeks, which is why many liveaboards and CCers don't like them.

 

OTOH you don't have to regularly lug a cassette full of c*ap around and empty it, which is not always a pleasant experience... 😉 

Edited September 21Sep 21 by IanD

1 hour ago, Marc34 said:

 

That's good to know! Would you reckon it'd be worth holding out a bit longer?

 

I'm going to view a 2008 ABC-built boat (first with ABC now with a hire company near London). Is it true that most of them don't have anodes fitted?

They are never plugged in so no need.

2 minutes ago, matty40s said:

They are never plugged in so no need.

Calcutt hire boats are plugged in so as the cleaners can use their hoovers on board

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

But you do realise that having a pump-out tank means you have to leave your mooring and take the boat to a marina (or place with a working pump out machine) pay your £50 and then motor back to find your mooring has 'gone', you then need to spend hours looking for an empty mooring spot, which could be miles away from where you want to be.

 

with a cassette toilet you can take it and empty it (free of charge) in any toilet or elsan - you can even put it in a bag and take it on the tube and empty it at work. (you only take the cassette - not the complete toilet !)

Is that the price in London now. 

A boat we hired  at Easter a couple of decades ago, had a diesel- fired central heating (radiators). We were advised that it should not be run for more than 8 hours continuously. It snowed heavily the first night, and after about 8 hours,  low  battery voltage stopped it working, so no more heating until we started the engine the following morning.  I don't know if this is a typical running time : possibly modern heaters use less current: perhaps our boat's batteries were a bit tired, although we had been cruising all day so they should have been fully charged.

Edited September 21Sep 21 by Ronaldo47

9 minutes ago, Ronaldo47 said:

A boat we hired  at Easter a couple of decades ago, had a diesel- fired central heating (radiators). We were advised that it should not be run for more than 8 hours continuously. It snowed heavily the first night, and after about 8 hours,  low  battery voltage stopped it working, so no more heating until we started the engine the following morning.  I don't know if this is a typical running time : possibly modern heaters use less current: perhaps our boat's batteries were a bit tired, although we had been cruising all day so they should have been fully charged.

 

Most likely the batteries had lost capacity caused by others not running the engine enough and sulphating them. The running time will depend upon the battery bank size, so maybe there was not enough batteries fitted.

16 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Is that the price in London now. 

No, only in Alan's head... 😉

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

But you do realise that having a pump-out tank means you have to leave your mooring and take the boat to a marina (or place with a working pump out machine) pay your £50 and then motor back to find your mooring has 'gone', you then need to spend hours looking for an empty mooring spot, which could be miles away from where you want to be.

Doesn't one of the fuel boats offers a mobile pump out service in the London area?

49 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Most likely the batteries had lost capacity caused by others not running the engine enough and sulphating them. The running time will depend upon the battery bank size, so maybe there was not enough batteries fitted.

We've had hire boats like that in the past, even without running diesel CH the batteries were flat by morning. Call out hire base, they come and fit new batteries, problem goes away. Has happened more than once, even with reputable hire bases... 😞 

 

Fortunately, with LFP batteries and solar panels as fitted to many boats nowadays, this simply isn't an issue any more... 🙂 

15 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Doesn't one of the fuel boats offers a mobile pump out service in the London area?

I've certainly seen one go past, can't remember the name though.

Camden, Islington and Hackney councils are all in the process of introducing smoke controls for boaters on the Regent’s Canal. For now it will be ok to burn Smokeless fuel, but not wood or anything that produces smoke. I suspect these restrictions are only going to get more severe over time. You might be better off with a diesel stove if you want to moor regularly in central London… 

3 hours ago, Marc34 said:

Probably not? It's got a 300L pump out which I reckon should be workable with mostly one person on board.

I had a manual pump Jabsco toilet with a holding tank about the same size as yours. I used reckon on the tank lasting 28 person days with an absolute maximum of 30 days. Visitors had to be 'lectured' on toilet etiquette.😬