‘Friendly Narrowboat Group’ - any criticism of CRT now banned on their platform

[alias]

1 hour ago, Llamedos said:

In the main I’m very supportive of them, but they do occasionally do things that I disagree with and I wouldn’t want to feel I couldn’t speak my mind and discuss this with other people. Doing that might change my opinion after all. That’s healthy debate - shutting it down does no one any favours in the end. 

 

You can still speak your mind, but probably not using a Web site curated by someone with a different opinion. 

[MtB]

Just now, alias said:

 

You can still speak your mind, but probably not using a Web site curated by someone with a different opinion. 

 

I very much doubt Mark Zuckerberg has any opinions about CRT...

 

 

[b00ke23]

4 hours ago, nicknorman said:

Not odd really, that is the essence of Facebook groups and why I think they are the devil incarnate. You set up a group and surround yourself with like minded “groupthink” people, no dissent allowed. And then you think that is the only valid truth because everyone agrees with you.

 

Exactly, pretty common on facebook groups. 

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, b00ke23 said:

 

Exactly, pretty common on facebook groups. 

 

This is perhaps why @truckcab79 finds CWF so difficult to cope with and loves FB so much. People here keep calling him out on his dogma and can't be deleted! 

 

 

[truckcab79]

The irony of these comments. 😂

[alias]

51 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I very much doubt Mark Zuckerberg has any opinions about CRT.

 

I agree. He just monetises a platform that allows people to curate their own content.

[phantom_iv]

Time to create the “unfriendly narrowboat group” on Facebook as a rival!

 

Generally people who have to tell you how friendly they are rarely are.

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, alias said:

 

You can still speak your mind, but probably not using a Web site curated by someone with a different opinion. 

The whole point of a Facebook group is that it's a group for like-minded people. You can't really complain that they object to people who don't have the same ethos. I belong to a folk music group - we don't mind the odd free jazz bloke plugging a gig but he'd get pretty short thrift if he started flooding it with posts about the stuff and getting snotty that we hate it. Facebook isn't a forum, it's not set up for discussion or debate. It's about information (accuracy irrelevant) and messaging.

[alias]

2 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

The whole point of a Facebook group is that it's a group for like-minded people. You can't really complain that they object to people who don't have the same ethos. I belong to a folk music group - we don't mind the odd free jazz bloke plugging a gig but he'd get pretty short thrift if he started flooding it with posts about the stuff and getting snotty that we hate it. Facebook isn't a forum, it's not set up for discussion or debate. It's about information (accuracy irrelevant) and messaging.

 

Exactly, and there's no free speech issue because there is no bar to people creating their own free jazz echo chamber. If you can imagine such a thing.

[Llamedos]

8 hours ago, alias said:

 

Exactly, and there's no free speech issue because there is no bar to people creating their own free jazz echo chamber. If you can imagine such a thing.

The difference here is that the people signed up for what they thought was a canal community group. They now find they can’t criticise the very people who manage those canals which is surely a part of the community discussion. 

 

It’s a bit like signing up for your theoretical Jazz group then getting kicked off because you said that you love Jazz but you’re not all that keen on Miles Davis’s music when he happens to be the site owners favourite. 
 

Perhaps I don’t really ‘get’ social media. The more I see of it the less I like it, particularly this ‘hive mind’ mentality. 

[EventualBoater]

31 minutes ago, Llamedos said:

The difference here is that the people signed up for what they thought was a canal community group. They now find they can’t criticise the very people who manage those canals which is surely a part of the community discussion. 

 

It’s a bit like signing up for your theoretical Jazz group then getting kicked off because you said that you love Jazz but you’re not all that keen on Miles Davis’s music when he happens to be the site owners favourite. 
 

Perhaps I don’t really ‘get’ social media. The more I see of it the less I like it, particularly this ‘hive mind’ mentality. 

Each group has its rules. Which you have to agree to to join. If you don't like the rules of the group dont join. 

Im a member of a group based on a book series, one of the rules of the group is not to discuss a tv show based on the series. The series was utterly dreadful and causes a lot of arguements over its content, use of characters. Everyone has a view on how these were misused and it causes issues. So it was decided to just ban those discussions. 

 

Social media was a great idea to start. I loved getting in touch with old friends, seeing updates from family overseas. 

It's now getting very close minded and keeping you just in your own little world where what you think is what is true in the world. I rarely see a post from friends and family now as its all sponsored content or an "influencer" facebook wants me to be interested in.

The algorithm pushes on you what you spend your time watching/viewing, and that is designed to keep your engagement and it skews your views into thinking that it's the only view that matters. We see this a lot with how it affects politics.

[Llamedos]

3 minutes ago, EventualBoater said:

 

Social media was a great idea to start. I loved getting in touch with old friends, seeing updates from family overseas. 

It's now getting very close minded and keeping you just in your own little world where what you think is what is true in the world. I rarely see a post from friends and family now as its all sponsored content or an "influencer" facebook wants me to be interested in.

The algorithm pushes on you what you spend your time watching/viewing, and that is designed to keep your engagement and it skews your views into thinking that it's the only view that matters. We see this a lot with how it affects politics.

This is probably what drove me away from it, although I probably didn’t join up the dots at the time. I just decided I’d had enough one day and deleted my Facebook account. It’s probably why I still get angry when I hear about people being told what they can and can’t discuss. Echos of 1984. 
 

This group is pretty brutal at times and I’ve been offended by a couple of members in the past because of their rather ‘direct’ style. I got over it though and they did make a good point even if it was delivered with a sledgehammer. The light touch moderation we enjoy here is a good thing overall.

 

 

[EventualBoater]

1 minute ago, Llamedos said:

This is probably what drove me away from it, although I probably didn’t join up the dots at the time. I just decided I’d had enough one day and deleted my Facebook account. It’s probably why I still get angry when I hear about people being told what they can and can’t discuss. Echos of 1984. 
 

This group is pretty brutal at times and I’ve been offended by a couple of members in the past because of their rather ‘direct’ style. I got over it though and they did make a good point even if it was delivered with a sledgehammer. The light touch moderation we enjoy here is a good thing overall.

 

 

Im going to be getting rid of facebook soon enough. I barely go on it as it is. 

Handy for a few things at the moment (mainly time killing when im bored). Not much of a future anymore though, for me at least.

[Creaking Gate]

Having read the anti CRT group 'NCCRT - No confidence in CRT' on FB i can see why.  They see the worst in everything and twist most things to sort a negative narrative, i swear if CRT suddenly fixed everything overnight they 'd complain it was too quick.  Its almost like boaters do nothing wrong whatsoever. No flytipping, no damage, no misuse, no breaking or bending of the rules... But we all know that is not true!

 

If they feel that strongly, leave that FB group, join NCCRT group and get your kicks there. 

 

I'm in neither for the record.  Its too exhausting.  Plus having no boat makes me a bit neutral lol

[Llamedos]

2 minutes ago, Creaking Gate said:

Having read the anti CRT group 'NCCRT - No confidence in CRT' on FB i can see why.  They see the worst in everything and twist most things to sort a negative narrative, i swear if CRT suddenly fixed everything overnight they 'd complain it was too quick.  Its almost like boaters do nothing wrong whatsoever. No flytipping, no damage, no misuse, no breaking or bending of the rules... But we all know that is not true!

 

If they feel that strongly, leave that FB group, join NCCRT group and get your kicks there. 

 

I'm in neither for the record.  Its too exhausting.  Plus having no boat makes me a bit neutral lol

I don’t think most of the people on there who are complaining about the new rule are particularly anti-CRT - just the opposite in fact.
 

Most of them just want the freedom to be able to comment in a constructive way if they see something CRT are doing that they don’t like.

[MtB]

34 minutes ago, EventualBoater said:

I just decided I’d had enough one day and deleted my Facebook account.

 

Point of Order...

 

I don't think you can do that. You can hide it and do all sorts to it but not actually delete it for ever. DAMHIK.

 

I thought I'd deleted mine 15 years ago but when I tried to re-register 3 or 4 years ago to access the "12V Boating group", everything was still there and not deleted at all. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, Creaking Gate said:

Having read the anti CRT group 'NCCRT - No confidence in CRT' on FB i can see why. 

 

 

Presumably they have a rule saying any positive comments about CRT will be deleted?! 

 

 

[IanM]

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

Point of Order...

 

I don't think you can do that. You can hide it and do all sorts to it but not actually delete it for ever. DAMHIK.

 

I thought I'd deleted mine 15 years ago but when I tried to re-register 3 or 4 years ago to access the "12V Boating group", everything was still there and not deleted at all. 

 

There's two options.  Deactivate or delete.  Deactivate effectively hides it so you can come back to it later and it's all there how you left it.  Delete should get rid of it for good.

[MtB]

Just now, IanM said:

Delete should get rid of it for good.

 

Exactly.

 

Should, but doesn't in my experience.

 

 

[Llamedos]

9 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Point of Order...

 

I don't think you can do that. You can hide it and do all sorts to it but not actually delete it for ever. DAMHIK.

 

I thought I'd deleted mine 15 years ago but when I tried to re-register 3 or 4 years ago to access the "12V Boating group", everything was still there and not deleted at all. 

 

 

 

Sure you didn’t just deactivate it?
 

Facebook deliberately push you down that route in the hope you’ll one day come back. If you dig deeply enough however there is a delete facility. You have to agree to a legal document to say everything will be deleted and you will be unable to recover it. After doing that there is a 14 day cooling off period and eventually you get an email confirming everything is permanently gone from their servers.  
 

 

Edited September 3 by Llamedos
Further clarity

[alias]

41 minutes ago, Llamedos said:

This is probably what drove me away from it, although I probably didn’t join up the dots at the time. I just decided I’d had enough one day and deleted my Facebook account. It’s probably why I still get angry when I hear about people being told what they can and can’t discuss. Echos of 1984. 

 

They are only being told that there are some topics that the owner doesn't want in their group. There are other groups that welcome it...

 

This isn't totalitarian denial of free speech.

 

5 minutes ago, Llamedos said:

I don’t think most of the people on there who are complaining about the new rule are particularly anti-CRT - just the opposite in fact.
 

Most of them just want the freedom to be able to comment in a constructive way if they see something CRT are doing that they don’t like.

 

The rule suggests that people with such (constructive) comments communicate them to CRT.

 

Or they could see if another existing group accepts such content.

 

Or they could set up their own group with their own rules, and do as they please.

[Mike Todd]

1 hour ago, Llamedos said:

This is probably what drove me away from it, although I probably didn’t join up the dots at the time. I just decided I’d had enough one day and deleted my Facebook account. It’s probably why I still get angry when I hear about people being told what they can and can’t discuss. Echos of 1984. 
 

This group is pretty brutal at times and I’ve been offended by a couple of members in the past because of their rather ‘direct’ style. I got over it though and they did make a good point even if it was delivered with a sledgehammer. The light touch moderation we enjoy here is a good thing overall.

 

 

Facebook? 1984? Another 20 years . . .

[Llamedos]

10 minutes ago, alias said:

 

They are only being told that there are some topics that the owner doesn't want in their group. There are other groups that welcome it...

 

This isn't totalitarian denial of free speech.

 

 

The rule suggests that people with such (constructive) comments communicate them to CRT.

 

Or they could see if another existing group accepts such content.

 

Or they could set up their own group with their own rules, and do as they please.

You’re probably right - I’m probably getting a bit carried away with the ‘Orwellian’ stuff. 😂

 

Thanks for putting things in context. I mean it. 

[MtB]

29 minutes ago, Llamedos said:

Sure you didn’t just deactivate it?
 

Facebook deliberately push you down that route in the hope you’ll one day come back. If you dig deeply enough however there is a delete facility. You have to agree to a legal document to say everything will be deleted and you will be unable to recover it. After doing that there is a 14 day cooling off period and eventually you get an email confirming everything is permanently gone from their servers.  
 

 

 

Pretty sure, yes. I remember the legal doc and the buttons to press to agree to "gone for ever" and the cooling off period. No email confirming gone from servers but this was getting on for 20 years ago.

 

Then when I came to re-register they offered it all back to me, they'd kept it after all. 

 

 

[Hudds Lad]

They've been that way for a while now, since the recent crop of Mods moved in. They do like to turn off commenting or remove posts too. Nothing worse than seeing something that might be interesting, clicking on it, only to be greeted by "this content has been removed".

 

J put a warning post on there in late June about two separate dog attacks as we were coming down from Great Haywood (one on the boat behind as they worked the lock and one on herself as she worked the lock above Fradley), an hour or so later it was deleted without explanation.

[Llamedos]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

Pretty sure, yes. I remember the legal doc and the buttons to press to agree to "gone for ever" and the cooling off period. No email confirming gone from servers but this was getting on for 20 years ago.

 

Then when I came to re-register they offered it all back to me, they'd kept it after all. 

 

 

That’s worrying, but I can’t say I’m surprised about anything Meta get up to. 🙄
 

Was it pre GDPR? Apparently they could get away with this sort of thing more easily back then.

Edited September 3 by Llamedos
Further thoughts