An open letter from CaRT’s CEO Campbell Robb.

[BoatingLifeUpNorth2]

Just now, Rob-M said:

How about all those day boats hired out with crowds of people on

 

And the unicorn, dragon and pink flamingo pedelo’s hired out for 20 minutes at the municipal boat lake🦄🦩😂

[Alan de Enfield]

20 minutes ago, BoatingLifeUpNorth2 said:

That seems a lot. 

450,000 ➗ 52 weeks = 9000 people per week.

Say 6 people per hire boat for a week, that’s 1500 hire boats hired out on the canal every week for a year.

 Where? So why are the hire companies saying they’re struggling?

 Obviously there must be other boats/factors going on to get the figure of 450,000 people.

 

 

C&RT also stated that 888,000,000 (888 million) people visit a canal every year

[Llamedos]

😁

50 minutes ago, MrsM said:

Evidence please or I just don't believe you! 😆

Edited August 3 by Llamedos
Genuine picture of me

[Arthur Marshall]

3 hours ago, Steve Bassplayer said:

Apparently around 450,000 people enjoy canal holidays on hire boats each year. So the general public could be the biggest influence on keeping the canals open in the future. 

 

Projects like the Grand Union Canal (water) Transfer may help too....

 

 

Google's AI, says "Around 450,000 people enjoy canal boating holidays on Britain's inland waterways every year. Across the UK, there are roughly 1,000 self-drive holiday hire boats available, with around a fifth of all holidaymakers being first-time hirers."

So that first number includes everyone who has a canal boat, not just hirers. God only know where the AI got the number from. Still looks like nonsense. Perhaps it counted a 14 day boat trip as 14 separate holidays (which is true, in a weird way) and multiplied that by an estimate of the people on board.

I tend to regard anything Google throws up as an AI summary as rubbish.
 

 

[Ex Brummie]

My experience through this years trips is that anglers seem to be much happier than previously. Even passing through some big contests such as from Bratch to Botterham on the Staffs & Worcs. I woke up to find I was on about peg no 3, (which was the firstmooring after the designated lock landing). The nearest angler offered to help me untie and cast off! Along the whole stretch I had no shouting or gesticulation apart from cheery waves. The only 'usual' response was when I suggested to a couple on the lock landing at Dimmingsdale that they might have a more peceful day further away and was told in no uncertain (and obscene) terms that they had as much right to be there as me. I don't think they were real anglers though as they idn't have the requisite 4 wheel trolley and several rods etc.

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Google's AI, says "Around 450,000 people enjoy canal boating holidays on Britain's inland waterways every year. Across the UK, there are roughly 1,000 self-drive holiday hire boats available, with around a fifth of all holidaymakers being first-time hirers.

If the AI is correct, that 1000 hire boats includes those on the Thames, Broads and other non CRT waterways. I wonder if it includes self steer day hire boats as well as those with overnight accommodation.

[Llamedos]

54 minutes ago, Ex Brummie said:

My experience through this years trips is that anglers seem to be much happier than previously. Even passing through some big contests such as from Bratch to Botterham on the Staffs & Worcs. I woke up to find I was on about peg no 3, (which was the firstmooring after the designated lock landing). The nearest angler offered to help me untie and cast off! Along the whole stretch I had no shouting or gesticulation apart from cheery waves. The only 'usual' response was when I suggested to a couple on the lock landing at Dimmingsdale that they might have a more peceful day further away and was told in no uncertain (and obscene) terms that they had as much right to be there as me. I don't think they were real anglers though as they idn't have the requisite 4 wheel trolley and several rods etc.

I used to fish on that exact spot on the lock landing back in the 1960’s and 70’s when I was just a young kid. It’s a known hot spot. The fish congregate in the flow of the bywash waiting for natural food to come through. That’s why anglers sometimes can’t resist having a try there even though they usually know they shouldn’t fish on the lock landing. Not excusing the way you were spoken to that’s absolutely not acceptable. 

[Ken X]

28 minutes ago, David Mack said:

If the AI is correct, that 1000 hire boats includes those on the Thames, Broads and other non CRT waterways. I wonder if it includes self steer day hire boats as well as those with overnight accommodation.

If only day boats were self steering. 😄

 

The ones we encounter are usually driving like a weaver on piece work. 🙂  

[Llamedos]

1 hour ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Google's AI, says "Around 450,000 people enjoy canal boating holidays on Britain's inland waterways every year. Across the UK, there are roughly 1,000 self-drive holiday hire boats available, with around a fifth of all holidaymakers being first-time hirers."

So that first number includes everyone who has a canal boat, not just hirers. God only know where the AI got the number from. Still looks like nonsense. Perhaps it counted a 14 day boat trip as 14 separate holidays (which is true, in a weird way) and multiplied that by an estimate of the people on board.

I tend to regard anything Google throws up as an AI summary as rubbish.
 

 

Just asked Google AI how it arrived at the figure. Here’s the response….

 

The figure of 450,000 annual canal boat holidaymakers comes directly from joint industry data published by the Canal & River Trust and Drifters Waterway Holidays. [1, 2]

The total is calculated using the following operational metrics:

Total Annual Trips: Data shows that approximately 100,000 holiday boat bookings are made each year across the UK.

Average Group Size: Canal boats are built for group travel, typically carrying between 2 to 12 people. The average occupancy sits at roughly 4.5 people per boat.

The Math: Multiplying the 100,000 bookings by the average group size yields the estimate of 450,000 total individual holidaymakers. [1, 2]

This collective footfall is supported by a dedicated commercial fleet of about 1,000 hire narrowboatsoperating across 3,000 miles of inland waterways

[Steve Bassplayer]

2 hours ago, BoatingLifeUpNorth2 said:

That seems a lot. 

450,000 ➗ 52 weeks = 9000 people per week.

Say 6 people per hire boat for a week, that’s 1500 hire boats hired out on the canal every week for a year.

 Where? So why are the hire companies saying they’re struggling?

 Obviously there must be other boats/factors going on to get the figure of 450,000 people.

 

 

It originated from this page on the C&RTweb site.  

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/news-and-views/news/10-reasons-to-take-a-canal-boat-holiday-this-summer

 

I was trying to point out that the general public would probably get behind us if the canals started to get shut down, but that point seems to have been lost in the chaff.

 

🙄

 

So many people follow boater YouTube channels. I think.there would be an outcry if the dream of 'escaping' to a boaty lifestyle was obliterated, even though the vast majority would probably never try it for various reasons.

[MtB]

That 100,000 holiday boat bookings per year intuitively sounds like cobblers to me. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[IanM]

Just now, MtB said:

That 100,000 holiday boat bookings per year intuitively sounds like cobblers to me. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

May be that’s 100,000 berths? Dividing it by 5 or whatever the average hire boat bed number is and you get something which sounds right. 
 

[MtB]

Lets imagine each hire boat gets booked for 40 x 7 day holidays a year. 100,000/40 = 2500 hire boats needed on the cut for that many bookings. Is that a viable number of hire boats? I rather doubt it. Most hire firms look to me as though they have an average of about ten boats each. Are there 250 canal boat holiday firms on the cut? I'd have thought it closer to 50. 

 

2 minutes ago, IanM said:

May be that’s 100,000 berths? Dividing it by 5 or whatever the average hire boat bed number is and you get something which sounds right. 
 

 

But it says "boat bookings" not "berth bookings".

 

 

 

[Steve Bassplayer]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

C&RT also stated that 888,000,000 (888 million) people visit a canal every year

They said 888 million visits, not 888 million people visiting.

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/document/NTI9Y6jAJXxaEoZ6kDcMtw/3VCza2hDkaz4F2e39by4FCmumUwPbMnjCePItVKJxSQ/aHR0cHM6Ly9jcnRwcm9kY21zdWtzMDEuYmxvYi5jb3JlLndpbmRvd3MubmV0L2RvY3VtZW50Lw/01922434-e345-7545-bd7c-84487c4742ab.pdf

 

 

[agg221]

20 minutes ago, Ken X said:

If only day boats were self steering. 😄

 

The ones we encounter are usually driving like a weaver on piece work. 🙂  

It’s true, but I still like the day boats. They are a bit like ungainly young animals taking their first wobbly steps. The most important thing though is that they make people happy, and there is precious little happiness in the world. People enjoying themselves in a harmless way on the water has to be a good thing on many levels.

 

Alec

[IanM]

5 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

But it says "boat bookings" not "berth bookings".

 

 

 

Depends how you look at though.

 

If 6 people book a boat for a holiday is that one boat booked by 6 people or 6 people booking one boat?
 

If you asked each of those 6 people if they booked a boat holiday they would all say yes so could be argued that it was 6 boat bookings. 
 

 

[Cheshire cat]

Not going to comment on the amount of hirings but when we were stuck at the top of bosley two weeks ago there were three heritage hire boats wh o had to abandon ship. What do you think they said to their friends and neighbours? Any chance of a refund as provided by network rail?

[MtB]

6 minutes ago, IanM said:

Depends how you look at though.

 

If 6 people book a boat for a holiday is that one boat booked by 6 people or 6 people booking one boat?
 

If you asked each of those 6 people if they booked a boat holiday they would all say yes so could be argued that it was 6 boat bookings. 
 

 

 

It's one "boat booking", comprising six "people bookings".

 

 

[IanM]

9 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

It's one "boat booking", comprising six "people bookings".

 

 

And you know that for certain?

 

My point is that unless you were the one compiling the data you don’t actually know what method was used to compile it. 

Edited August 3 by IanM

[Arthur Marshall]

23 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

It's one "boat booking", comprising six "people bookings".

 

 

It's AI. 

 

15 minutes ago, IanM said:

And you know that for certain?

 

My point is that unless you were the one compiling the data you don’t actually know what method was used to compile it. 

If it's AI, it's rubbish. 

As is the thought that the general public., 90% of whom have never been near a canal, are going to want their taxes put up so we can play boats on the Huddersfield Narrow.

[Stroudwater1]

3 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

Me too. However unless more finding can be secured I don't see any other option but to cut the size of the network to the size of the funding for the medium term future of the network.

 

This used to be a point frequently mentioned by IanD but once he realised that there really is precious little length that you can close without affecting the rest of the network / water supply/ ecosystem he toned  down to a few strips of the BCN which would make little difference anyway.
 

Closing a canal does not mean nice little watercourses but rapidly silted up land eventually ready for building over- See most derelict canals for examples. 
 

Both the HNC and Rochdale are not possible to close anyway so what part would you close? (Clue- there isn’t any) 

[NB Thistle]

8 hours ago, Steve Bassplayer said:

 

So many people follow boater YouTube channels. I think.there would be an outcry if the dream of 'escaping' to a boaty lifestyle was obliterated, even though the vast majority would probably never try it for various reasons.

My impression from the times I have dipped into the comments on YouTube narrowboat videos is that a majority of the viewers are Americans feeding their perception of how quaint and historic the UK is.

[Alan de Enfield]

9 hours ago, Steve Bassplayer said:

They said 888 million visits, not 888 million people visiting.

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/document/NTI9Y6jAJXxaEoZ6kDcMtw/3VCza2hDkaz4F2e39by4FCmumUwPbMnjCePItVKJxSQ/aHR0cHM6Ly9jcnRwcm9kY21zdWtzMDEuYmxvYi5jb3JlLndpbmRvd3MubmV0L2RvY3VtZW50Lw/01922434-e345-7545-bd7c-84487c4742ab.pdf

 

 

 

You are correct - but are you aware how even that astronomical figure was derived ?

[Allan(nb Albert)]

9 hours ago, Steve Bassplayer said:

They said 888 million visits, not 888 million people visiting.

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/document/NTI9Y6jAJXxaEoZ6kDcMtw/3VCza2hDkaz4F2e39by4FCmumUwPbMnjCePItVKJxSQ/aHR0cHM6Ly9jcnRwcm9kY21zdWtzMDEuYmxvYi5jb3JlLndpbmRvd3MubmV0L2RvY3VtZW50Lw/01922434-e345-7545-bd7c-84487c4742ab.pdf

 

 

Actually, the current "total visits" figure for 2025/26 is 881m. CRT is obliged to publish this information as part of the current grant agreement with DEFRA.

[BoatingLifeUpNorth2]

59 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

You are correct - but are you aware how even that astronomical figure was derived ?

A few years ago CaRT put a people counting camera on a lamp post at Victoria Quays, Sheffield. They pointed it at the Cafe, bars and the thorough fair from the offices, car parks too and from the city centre. It was no where near the actual towpath. So was not a true reflection of the tow path canal users.

 They said they needed the data for funding, the more canal users the more funding.

 Maybe there’s lots of these cameras in Cherry picked locations, getting these high numbers?

 There’s probably one at Brayford Pool, Lincoln, counting the people at the bars, Wagga Mamma’s and the cafe’s. Playing the numbers game.

Edited Tuesday at 07:32 by BoatingLifeUpNorth2