Moorings question - please help update my knowledge...

[Tentface]

Hi all. I'd love some advice, please. Situation: After spending lots of time on a friend's liveaboard 45 ft narrowboat in the Nottingham area about 25 years ago, I've had a long-term dream to own my own. My circumstances are about to change and make this financially and practically possible. However, the logistics are confusing me. Here's my questions:

 

1. My friend had a leisure mooring, though practically everyone on his site lived on their boats, going on trips for days or weeks at a time during spring/summer/autumn. A couple paid CT for a postal address, though most used a friend's house as their official address. They said this was standard practice, and that as long as people were a bit discreet, it was ignored. The reasoning was that residential moorings are too difficult to find, expensive, and have long waiting lists. Is this still the case, or have things changed dramatically in recent years?

 

2. A search on CRT moorings available right now across the whole of NW and central England reveals hardly any availability. Has this also changed in recent years, with far more demand and possible overcrowding on the waterways? I seem to recall it was quite easy before, and that, when on the move, there would always be a couple of 48 hour visitor moorings free on any stretch of water. Does it now take months or years to get a mooring? Would it be best to sign a mooring contract BEFORE buying a boat, to avoid owning a boat with nowhere to put it? Or is that not how it works? Sorry if this is a daft question, but Googling isn't providing the answer. 

 

3. My partner is a keen woodworker and electrician and would relish the challenge of kitting out a boat. I've noticed a few 35-57 foot for sale that have a new/overhauled engine and sound hull with recent survey and years left on the safety certificate, with spray foam and plywood fitted and/or a log burner, that are otherwise a blank canvas. If we were to buy one of these and kit it out ourselves, how do we find a place to keep the boat while working on it? Are there temporary moorings with easy access and electricity supply that are designed around people doing this? Do boatyards typically offer this?

 

Any even vaguely relevant comments and advice most welcome and appreciated. Cheers.

Edited July 31 by Tentface
Typed 50 instead of 57.

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, Tentface said:

Hi all. I'd love some advice, please. Situation: After spending lots of time on a friend's liveaboard 45 ft narrowboat in the Nottingham area about 25 years ago, I've had a long-term dream to own my own. My circumstances are about to change and make this financially and practically possible. However, the logistics are confusing me. Here's my questions:

 

1. My friend had a leisure mooring, though practically everyone on his site lived on their boats, going on trips for days or weeks at a time during spring/summer/autumn. A couple paid CT for a postal address, though most used a friend's house as their official address. They said this was standard practice, and that as long as people were a bit discreet, it was ignored. The reasoning was that residential moorings are too difficult to find, expensive, and have long waiting lists. Is this still the case, or have things changed dramatically in recent years?

 

2. A search on CRT moorings available right now across the whole of NW and central England reveals hardly any availability. Has this also changed in recent years, with far more demand and possible overcrowding on the waterways? I seem to recall it was quite easy before, and that, when on the move, there would always be a couple of 48 hour visitor moorings free on any stretch of water. Does it now take months or years to get a mooring? Would it be best to sign a mooring contract BEFORE buying a boat, to avoid owning a boat with nowhere to put it? Or is that not how it works? Sorry if this is a daft question, but Googling isn't providing the answer. 

 

3. My partner is a keen woodworker and electrician and would relish the challenge of kitting out a boat. I've noticed a few 35-50 foot for sale that have a new/overhauled engine and sound hull with recent survey and years left on the safety certificate, with spray foam and plywood fitted and/or a log burner, that are otherwise a blank canvas. If we were to buy one of these and kit it out ourselves, how do we find a place to keep the boat while working on it? Are there temporary moorings with easy access and electricity supply that are designed around people doing this? Do boatyards typically offer this?

 

Any even vaguely relevant comments and advice most welcome and appreciated. Cheers.

 

1. Things are still the same or possibly worse cost wise.

 

2. That is what is generally advised, but you could always license it as a CC while you look for a mooring, but that involves moving it every 14 days or less and moving more than a few miles there and back.  I would suggest getting on a bike and talking to marinas.

 

3. Only very few and far between. I can only think of two and access to either s not particularly easy.

 

3b. Be very careful with your partner's electrical knowledge. Vehicle and domestic electricians are known to cock up narrowboat installations because they don't appreciate the differences between their bread and butter work and boats. Make sure he fully understands the Boat Safety Scheme requirements and at a real risk of opening up a pretty useless discussion re the RCD/RCR demands just be aware that if the boat is within scope (post 1998) or the work done on it is considered to need a Post Construction Certificate then not having it might (not will) create some kind of difficulty if/when you come to sell on. 

 

[David Mack]

1. People living aboard on leisure moorings is commonplace, and most mooring operators turn a blind eye. Just say you will be spending a lot of time aboard, and don't use the 'l' word. Having a friend or relative's address for postal/official purposes can be helpful, but be aware it can have some negative implications either for you or the householder.

2. CRT is not the only mooring provider.They do seem to be winding their online permanent moorings down, so locations aren't always advertised when they become vacant.

Finding short term (48 hrs to 14 day) moorings when travelling isn't a problem in most areas.

3. Moorings where you can do extensive work afloat are few and far between. Small independent boatyards are probably more flexible than the marina chains. Some insist on work being done by their own staff, or want a sizeable backhander if you employ an external contractor. Any noisy or dusty work is likely to upset your fellow moorers.

Also be aware that the space inside a boat cabin is limited. Living (full time or temporarily) in the same space you are working in is not straightforward.

[Tentface]

4 minutes ago, David Mack said:

1. People living aboard on leisure moorings is commonplace, and most mooring operators turn a blind eye. Just say you will be spending a lot of time aboard, and don't use the 'l' word.

So, that sounds just as I remember, then. Reassuring.

[Tentface]

6 minutes ago, David Mack said:

3. Moorings where you can do extensive work afloat are few and far between. Small independent boatyards are probably more flexible than the marina chains. Some insist on work being done by their own staff, or want a sizeable backhander if you employ an external contractor. Any noisy or dusty work is likely to upset your fellow moorers.

I had a feeling this would be the case. I can't imagine getting power tools out on a canal bank, and would need somewhere appropriate/not antisocial. We wouldn't be living in the boat while working on it, so that's not an issue, though it's not like converting a van to a camper on your driveway. Reckon we'd better knock the fit-out idea on the head.

[Tentface]

25 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

3b. Be very careful with your partner's electrical knowledge. Vehicle and domestic electricians are known to cock up narrowboat installations because they don't appreciate the differences between their bread and butter work and boats. Make sure he fully understands the Boat Safety Scheme requirements 

 

Noted.

[LadyG]

Probably best to look around for something that is already a liveaboard, you may not find one you like but you will see plenty that you don't like.

A tiny boat ( as I would call a 45ft for two) will test the relationship, IMHO.

Personally: while owner fitouts, which you may be proposing are never quite finished, neither are they ever professional fitouts!

You will not find it easy to buy materials, and you need cash to fund things you did not think / know you needed!

You might be able to have a six month mooring contract and a six month continuous cruising licence. You should be clear about your lifestyle choices, and the CRT requirements before you do anything 

Edited July 30 by LadyG

[Tentface]

11 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Probably best to look around for something that is already a liveaboard, you may not find one you like but you will see plenty that you don't like.

A tiny boat ( as I would call a 45ft for two) will test the relationship, IMHO.

It would be me and a dog living on the boat; he'd visit several times a week and go on trips. One of my reasons for being in a position to do this now is wanting to live in a smaller space and separately. Was thinking 45 to 57 in size, as there are lots of boats in that bracket.

[Arthur Marshall]

17 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Personally: while owner fitouts, which you may be proposing are never quite finished, neither are they ever professional fitouts!

An extremely accurate statement - I fitted mine out thirty years ago and it's not finished yet...

[David Mack]

29 minutes ago, Tentface said:

I had a feeling this would be the case. I can't imagine getting power tools out on a canal bank, and would need somewhere appropriate/not antisocial.

You do see it from time to time, with a generator running on the bank for power tools. An out of the way spot away from other moored boats means you won't disturb local residents, but might still upset passing boats and towpath users.

[Tony Brooks]

I have done much painting and other work on my boat by using a generator on the towpath, but it was a relatively quiet Honda suitcase one.  I can't recall ever getting any adverse comments from other boaters, boats moored close by or towpath walkers, in fact the walkers often wanted to chat about what I was doing and boating. However, I took care to not use the generator outside typical working hours, so say 9.00 to 16.00.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

If you can return to civilisation each evening to recharge them, modern battery power tools and enough batteries mean you don't need mains, or a generator. Plan the day's jobs around the available batteries. 

[Bee]

Just a quick note. It is very difficult to comply with every byelaw, regulation and whim that is required. With the best will in the world you will be doing something wrong but don't worry, everybody else except the most pedantic and nitpicking know all will be doing the same. Keep it licenced and comply with the common sense stuff and you will be pretty much trouble free.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

If you can return to civilisation each evening to recharge them, modern battery power tools and enough batteries mean you don't need mains, or a generator. Plan the day's jobs around the available batteries. 

Even better, small power tool batteries can be charged from the bigger battery in the boat, via a small inverter. 
 

[blackrose]

3 hours ago, David Mack said:

1. People living aboard on leisure moorings is commonplace, and most mooring operators turn a blind eye. Just say you will be spending a lot of time aboard, and don't use the 'l' word.

 

Avoid the "h" word too (home) and don't be too demanding when it comes to "your rights" as some are. You have virtually no rights - at least very little security of tenure. Accept that you're living in a grey area and be nice to your neighbours including those who are land-based.

Edited July 30 by blackrose

[Lady M]

I would avoid the word 'rent' too.

[MtB]

And definitely don't ask about arrangements for getting post/mail delivered!

 

 

[LadyG]

4 hours ago, Tentface said:

It would be me and a dog living on the boat; he'd visit several times a week and go on trips. One of my reasons for being in a position to do this now is wanting to live in a smaller space and separately. Was thinking 45 to 57 in size, as there are lots of boats in that bracket.

There is a big difference in cabin space between a 45 and a 57ft,  not to mention between cruiser stern and trad. 

There is a big difference in price between a 1980s rustbucket and a well maintaned 2020 boat.

More research needed!

2 hours ago, MtB said:

Even better, small power tool batteries can be charged from the bigger battery in the boat, via a small inverter. 
 

Aha, then the first job is go on a course on steel boat electrics.

I decided when I started that I would take my 1960s Stanley hand drill and three small toolkits ( which i rarely open). 

The dedicated DIY person may enjoy the process, but the average person may find that living inside a workshop is not what they signed up for.:)

Edited July 30 by LadyG

[MtB]

36 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Aha, then the first job is go on a course on steel boat electrics.

 

Or....

 

Just buy a Bluetti/Jackery/whatever they are called this week!

 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

8 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Or....

 

Just buy a Bluetti/Jackery/whatever they are called this week!

 

 

 

That ties in nicely with the post about influencers 

[Arthur Marshall]

Also bear on mind that lot of kerfuffle is currently going on about licences and how people use/abuse them, as well as possible changes to the general mooring conditions. By the time you get a boat, there could be significant differences to now.

[WulfNut]

As far as getting a marina goes. A lot of it depends on area.  I'm guessing from talking to people around me that getting a marina in the north should be easier.  The midlands is slowly becoming busier with boats moving from the north and choosing to travel to their boat rather than keep it north without water.  The south has been very difficult for years.  

 

In regards to living on the marina,  its best if you spend a lot of time off your mooring.   The more you disappear the easier it is.  

 

Moorings are easier to find the smaller your boat is,  but marinas sometimes have a minimum charge.  

[Tentface]

8 hours ago, WulfNut said:

As far as getting a marina goes. A lot of it depends on area.

Currently in Merseyside so could work on a boat here, though keen to move to the East Midlands within a year.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Deleted

[Tentface]

11 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Also bear on mind that lot of kerfuffle is currently going on about licences and how people use/abuse them, as well as possible changes to the general mooring conditions. By the time you get a boat, there could be significant differences to now.

This is why I'm picking the brains of boaters, as opposed to just reading websites or going by memory. It's really tough on vanlife friends, and some have moved to Portugal to escape harassment and restrictions on overnight stays. I'm testing the waters about how feasible it would be to actually have a floating home next year, if my partner rents a room in a houseshare nearby.

12 hours ago, LadyG said:

There is a big difference in cabin space between a 45 and a 57ft,  not to mention between cruiser stern and trad. 

 

More research needed!

I am doing months of research and viewing as many boats as possible to see what's out there and where my sweet spot is. Spent an hour yesterday reading about overplating. Keen not to make an expensive mistake, as I am in my 50s.