Shoreline safety issue.

[StephenA]

49 minutes ago, Momac said:

 

It seems not many people die from electrocution in the UK so I think those of us with correctly fitted shore power inlets and cables may be in an even lower risk category compared to those with the potential live pins arrangement. 

 

Perhaps it would be wise never to volunteer to disconnect a shore power cable for another boater.

 

As already suggested there is  arguably some extra element of safety in disconnecting the cable from the shore power bollard before disconnecting the cable from the boat. And of course  first connect the cable to the boat before connecting to the shore power bollard. The shore power bollard cannot possibly be provided with a  live pins fitting (I hope).

 

 

 

If you unplug from a CRT Metermacs outlet it turns the outlet off and sends you an email telling you that you've disconnected 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

18 minutes ago, StephenA said:

 

If you unplug from a CRT Metermacs outlet it turns the outlet off and sends you an email telling you that you've disconnected 

There is a little microswitch in the base of the bollard socket that is closed when a plug is inserted and opens when it is removed. I found this out when I made a new shore lead with a plug that turned out to be shorter than usual. Too short to close the switch reliably, leading to random Metermacs disconnects. 

 

 

 

 

 

Fortunately, I was able to turn the shore lead round and used the male pin plug from the other end, that was longer. 😜

[jonathanA]

1 hour ago, Momac said:

 

It seems not many people die from electrocution in the UK so I think those of us with correctly fitted shore power inlets and cables may be in an even lower risk category compared to those with the potential live pins arrangement. 

 

Perhaps it would be wise never to volunteer to disconnect a shore power cable for another boater.

 

As already suggested there is  arguably some extra element of safety in disconnecting the cable from the shore power bollard before disconnecting the cable from the boat. And of course  first connect the cable to the boat before connecting to the shore power bollard. The shore power bollard cannot possibly be provided with a  live pins fitting (I hope).

 

 

Strictly speaking BS 7671 requires an instruction notice. It says

 

It is recommended in Section 709 that the marina operator provides an instruction notice for people intending to connect pleasure craft to the shore electrical supply, prior to them making such a connection. To achieve this, BS 7671 recommends that a notice is placed adjacent to each socket-outlet or group of socket-outlets. The recommended content of the notice is given in Fig. 709.3.

 

I couldn't copy the actual notice but essentially it says connect to.the boat then the bollard and disconnect at the bollard then boat when disconnecting. Plus lots of stuff about not dropping the ends in water and not stringing loads of leads together (oops)....

18 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Fortunately, I was able to turn the shore lead round and used the male pin plug from the other end, that was longer. 😜

Should have just shoved a bit of crunched up tin foil in.....

 

JOKING 😝🤣

[Momac]

17 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

Strictly speaking BS 7671 requires an instruction notice. It says

 

It is recommended in Section 709 that the marina operator provides an instruction notice for people intending to connect pleasure craft to the shore electrical supply, prior to them making such a connection. To achieve this, BS 7671 recommends that a notice is placed adjacent to each socket-outlet or group of socket-outlets. The recommended content of the notice is given in Fig. 709.3.

 

I couldn't copy the actual notice but essentially it says connect to.the boat then the bollard and disconnect at the bollard then boat when disconnecting.

 

 

[jonathanA]

Thanks,

 

Can't say I've ever seen one in any marina I've been in.....

[Momac]

1 hour ago, StephenA said:

 

If you unplug from a CRT Metermacs outlet it turns the outlet off and sends you an email telling you that you've disconnected 

Yes but not all shore power bollards are like that . 

 

19 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

Thanks,

 

Can't say I've ever seen one in any marina I've been in.....

Nor me

1 hour ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Be prepared for someone, somewhere, to prove you wrong!

And they will probably say it is perfectly safe since no one has been killed .

[GUMPY]

Most boats have the male inlet fitted the wrong way up with the pins pointing down.

It should be pointing sideways..........

Pins pointing down and the socket fills with rain.

Pins pointing up and the socket fills with rain if the gland is not 100%.

Pointing sideways neither fill with rain.

 

[StephenA]

40 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

Most boats have the male inlet fitted the wrong way up with the pins pointing down.

It should be pointing sideways..........

Pins pointing down and the socket fills with rain.

Pins pointing up and the socket fills with rain if the gland is not 100%.

Pointing sideways neither fill with rain.

 

 

Until the rain comes in sideways like it often does on our mooring

[Alan de Enfield]

3 hours ago, GUMPY said:

Most boats have the male inlet fitted the wrong way up with the pins pointing down.

It should be pointing sideways..........

Pins pointing down and the socket fills with rain.

Pins pointing up and the socket fills with rain if the gland is not 100%.

Pointing sideways neither fill with rain.

 

 

Mine is behind a 'flap' and in a recess so lift the flap, connect male/female and its all 'inside' the flap drops back over the cable.

 

(Pretty much the same as the one built into my campervan)

[Ronaldo47]

The correct types of wall-mounted  plugs are not too difficult to find and are not exactly expensive: this is a screenshot from the CPC/Farnell web site showing one of several examples.  None of them have hinged covers like the wall-mounted sockets.  

 

Edited July 28 by Ronaldo47

[DandV]

Some years ago,  someone on this forum described how they had fitted  two interconnected male pin boat plugs. One  at each end of their boat, to avoid having to run the connection cord the full length of the boat when moored the wrong way round. 

Ignoring the fact that it always livened the exposed pins at the other end of the boat. I think the solution was that a dedicated inter connection cable was required,  with no other connections from it from the B end of the boat, and terminated with a short female tail at the A end. Effectively an installed extension cord. So the male shoreline connection at the A end either received the shoreline, or the tail from the connection from the B end.

 

[Tonka]

11 hours ago, GUMPY said:

Most boats have the male inlet fitted the wrong way up with the pins pointing down.

It should be pointing sideways..........

Pins pointing down and the socket fills with rain.

Pins pointing up and the socket fills with rain if the gland is not 100%.

Pointing sideways neither fill with rain.

 

Not when it's inside the boat

[StephenA]

7 hours ago, Ronaldo47 said:

The correct types of wall-mounted  plugs are not too difficult to find and are not exactly expensive: this is a screenshot from the CPC/Farnell web site showing one of several examples.  None of them have hinged covers like the wall-mounted sockets.  

 

 

 

Ours does.. as does this one

 

https://www.essentialsupplies.co.uk/pce-16a-appliance-inlet-wall-mount-with-sprung-lid-240v-ip44-3-pole-513-6d.html?srsltid=AfmBOorNdjgDIWNbXqbkR2_ngqzC7Tk7CodaMvrXqIHnWzAnhLORfYLr

 

 

Edited July 29 by StephenA

[cheesegas]

7 hours ago, Ronaldo47 said:

None of them have hinged covers like the wall-mounted sockets. 

Fairly common for them to have hinged covers. 
 

[jonathanA]

8 minutes ago, cheesegas said:

Fairly common for them to have hinged covers. 
 

I wouldn't have said "common" I think it's pretty unusual in the non marine world as the cable mounted outlet has a cover. 

They are also available with a  "cap"  to cover the inlet when not in use but its not usually long before the cap becomes detached and lost.....

[StephenA]

10 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

I wouldn't have said "common" I think it's pretty unusual in the non marine world as the cable mounted outlet has a cover. 

They are also available with a  "cap"  to cover the inlet when not in use but its not usually long before the cap becomes detached and lost.....

 

The one we have came from a regular supplier, not marine.

[MtB]

8 hours ago, Ronaldo47 said:

The correct types of wall-mounted  plugs are not too difficult to find and are not exactly expensive: this is a screenshot from the CPC/Farnell web site showing one of several examples.  None of them have hinged covers like the wall-mounted sockets.  

 

 

 

If someone installs the male-pinned input socket in your photo above, do those male pins not become live to touch when the inverter in the boat is turned ON?

 

 

[StephenA]

5 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

If someone installs the male-pinned input socket in your photo above, do those male pins not become live to touch when the inverter in the boat is turned ON?

 

 

 

You have switching inside the boat to ensure only one 240v source can be connected at once. We do it on Mintball by having sockets outlets for the two sources and plug the internal 240v circuit into the appropriate output

Edited July 29 by StephenA

[cheesegas]

7 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

If someone installs the male-pinned input socket in your photo above, do those male pins not become live to touch when the inverter in the boat is turned ON?

 

 

…no.

 

Three ways I see it done usually, in order of price! None of them somehow wire an inlet to a supply. 

 

1 - shore power inlet feeds a standard 13a socket just inside the boat. Inverter also feeds a separate 13a socket next to it. Boats mains system is connected to a male 13a plug which hangs down next to it. You plug it in to whichever power source you’re using. 
 

2 - three position break before make changeover switch is used to change between inverter power and shore power. 
 

3 - shore power inlet feeds the AC input of an inverter/charger with built in automatic changeover switch. 

[MtB]

I appreciate there are plenty of ways to avoid that happening, but I posted the point because it might explain why DIY boaters fit the female shoreline sockets which posters in this thread say are so common.

 

[cheesegas]

15 minutes ago, MtB said:

I appreciate there are plenty of ways to avoid that happening, but I posted the point because it might explain why DIY boaters fit the female shoreline sockets which posters in this thread say are so common.

 

I can’t say I’ve actually ever heard of this being the reason for the female inlet though, and no one’s ever flagged it as a workaround…and nor have I ever seen a boat where there’s a female inlet which is live when the inverters on. 

 

Doing as you describe would also result in 240v being applied to the output of the inverter when the shoreline is connected which wouldn’t do it much good.

[IanD]

8 minutes ago, cheesegas said:

I can’t say I’ve actually ever heard of this being the reason for the female inlet though, and no one’s ever flagged it as a workaround…and nor have I ever seen a boat where there’s a female inlet which is live when the inverters on. 

 

Doing as you describe would also result in 240v being applied to the output of the inverter when the shoreline is connected which wouldn’t do it much good.

 

That shouldn't happen because the rules forbid it, you're only allowed feed-in (meaning a live inverter input) when hard-wired into the mains, and the inverter has to be ESS-certified and configured for this.

 

Though since this is just configuration, in theory there's nothing to stop a parsimonious boater ignoring the rules and setting ESS up in the (probably misguided?) hope that feeding power back in when they have excess solar might drive their bollard meter backwards and save them money... 😉 

[cheesegas]

5 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

That shouldn't happen because the rules forbid it, you're only allowed feed-in (meaning a live inverter input) when hard-wired into the mains, and the inverter has to be ESS-certified and configured for this.

 

Though since this is just configuration, in theory there's nothing to stop a parsimonious boater ignoring the rules and setting ESS up in the (probably misguided?) hope that feeding power back in when they have excess solar might drive their bollard meter backwards and save them money... 😉 

I was referring more to how it could be installed by a bodgy DIYer looking to save a few pennies on parts, with no knowledge or care for the rules…

[David Mack]

Not only do those surface mounted inlets (with or without a flap) look incredibly ugly, they stick out in places where you might easily catch your ankle and they are vulnerable to damage. Why not fit a flush unit?

 

https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/240v-compact-flush-mounted-inlet-plug-white.html

[Jen-in-Wellies]

10 minutes ago, IanD said:

Though since this is just configuration, in theory there's nothing to stop a parsimonious boater ignoring the rules and setting ESS up in the (probably misguided?) hope that feeding power back in when they have excess solar might drive their bollard meter backwards and save them money... 😉 

I ama aware of someone who tried this. The bollard couldn't distinguish feed in from consumption, so charged them for the energy they had fed back in at the usual rate!