Shoreline safety issue.

[billh]

I am reporting this as a possible  safety issue for all boaters who use a shore connected electrical supply by means of the 240v 16(and sometimes 32) amp "blue" connectors.

Yesterday , I was asked for advice about a reversed polarity 13 amp mains socket recently installed in a boat. I was shocked (not literally) to find that the incomer to the boat, that is the surface mount connector on the  bulkhead  was in fact a surface mount outlet which meant that there was a plug on each end of the shoreline cable , allowing bare prongs at the boat end that could deliver a nasty surprise to anyone touching them. The wrong fittings had been in use for some years, the surface fitting should be an "inlet" type with the pins visible and the boat end of the supply cable should be a "socket".

This particular boat recently had a BSS done, I assume the shore connection was not checked (maybe not a BSS thing?). The polarity L/N problem occurred because the shore line  was correctly terminated  in the marked terminals of the "plugs" at either end .

Anyway, the errors were repaired and following that  I ran a quick check on 6 other boats with shore connection. Two of the six had exactly the same fault, surface mount outlet instead of inlet fitted , so 3 out of 7 faulty and dangerous.

Could everyone please check what you have? The connectors at the boat end look very similar from the outside, you need to  first disconnect at the onshore outlet first, then unplug at the boat end to check. Remember, you should see  prongs on the boat fitting and holes on the cable connector at the boat end.

If it's not right, get it fixed at once. I thought I was seeing a one off  example of idiocy, seems it is quite common.

I understand that I may  not have explained the problem too clearly, feel free to contribute a better explanation  than the above.

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

7 minutes ago, billh said:

maybe not a BSS thing?

It is definitely a BSS thing and should have failed. 

[StephenA]

That's odd as I'd have thought premade cables were plugs at one end and sockets at the other. I know both of ours are. 

[Momac]

I agree there should never be exposed live pins . The pins should be on the inlet fitting which is fixed on the boat and also on the end of the cable that plugs into the shore power bollard ashore.

Unfortunately it is all too easy for people to get this mixed up . 

 

I doubt very much you would find a 32 Amp shore supply in the UK but I do agree some boats may be fitted with 32A connectors.

 

Just now, StephenA said:

That's odd as I'd have thought premade cables were plugs at one end and sockets at the other. I know both of ours are. 

But people can easily make up their own shore power cable .

[billh]

1 minute ago, StephenA said:

That's odd as I'd have thought premade cables were plugs at one end and sockets at the other. I know both of ours are. 

Not necessarily  a pre-made cable? Plenty of DIY goes on  in boats!

[blackrose]

24 minutes ago, billh said:

Remember, you should see  prongs on the boat fitting and holes on the cable connector at the boat end.

 

 

Male terminals on the boat fitting and female terminals on the cable connector.

 

And the danger is that anyone connecting or disconnecting an incorrect live male cable fitting risks carrying exposed live terminals in their hand. 

 

I generally connect everything up before switching on shore power or starting a generator. I don't like holding unconnected live cables even with the correct fittings attached.

Edited July 26 by blackrose

[Alan de Enfield]

10 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

It is definitely a BSS thing and should have failed. 

 

But that does not say, disconnect and check for the 'correct' plug/socket on each end.

Neither does it say that a polarity test should be done on sockets.

In fact - I seem to remember that BSS examiners are forbidden from disconnecting any 'electrics'.

 

And of course - ALL of the 'mains voltage' checks undertaken on a 'leisure/pleasure' boat are only advisory, so even if it had bare wires flopping about it would still not fail.

10 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

It is definitely a BSS thing and should have failed. 

 

 

It could not fail as it is not a requirement, only an advisory

[Jen-in-Wellies]

15 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

But that does not say, disconnect and check for the 'correct' plug/socket on each end.

Neither does it say that a polarity test should be done on sockets.

In fact - I seem to remember that BSS examiners are forbidden from disconnecting any 'electrics'.

 

And of course - ALL of the 'mains voltage' checks undertaken on a 'leisure/pleasure' boat are only advisory, so even if it had bare wires flopping about it would still not fail.

 

It could not fail as it is not a requirement, only an advisory

On the most common 16A blue connectors you can tell which way round they are without disconnecting, by visual examination. The side with the exposed pins has the plastic weather shield on the outside.

 

[cheesegas]

This sort of thing is sadly quite common. A lot of owners are aware of it too as they've been advised by BSS examiners etc, but refuse to change it as 'it hasn't hurt anyone yet' which is a poor attitude to have. I've seen one occasion where the shoreline came unplugged on such a boat, leaving the live male pins exposed on the cable lying on the pontoon. Easily happens if the lid on the socket is damaged/missing and someone steps on the cable.

 

I see it at work with inlets on catering vans - bodgy owners often fit female sockets as inlets because they're easier to get hold of, and then make up a male to male cable when they realise it doesn't work. I make a point of checking and refuse to connect anything with a female inlet...

 

10 hours ago, Momac said:

I doubt very much you would find a 32 Amp shore supply in the UK but I do agree some boats may be fitted with 32A connectors.

Lots of marinas on rivers have 32a shore power supplies as the boats tend to be a lot bigger - South Dock and Greenland Dock in London for example.

 

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Neither does it say that a polarity test should be done on sockets.

Yep. Seen a few boats with reversed polarity somewhere from the bollard to the outlets which have passed many BSCs. 

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

On the most common 16A blue connectors you can tell which way round they are without disconnecting, by visual examination. The side with the exposed pins has the plastic weather shield on the outside.

 

 

But my point was, even if they have the knowlege to identify the difference - it is not a BSS fail.

 

The one that has the "shroud / flap" is the female.

 

 

The 'male' (exposed pins) does not have the terminals covered

 

 

[billh]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

But my point was, even if they have the knowlege to identify the difference - it is not a BSS fail.

 

The one that has the "shroud / flap" is the female.

 

 

The 'male' (exposed pins) does not have the terminals covered

 

 

To avoid any doubt- your illustrations are of the WRONG type for the boat end of the cable!

[Momac]

34 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

But that does not say, disconnect and check for the 'correct' plug/socket on each end.

Neither does it say that a polarity test should be done on sockets.

In fact - I seem to remember that BSS examiners are forbidden from disconnecting any 'electrics'.

 

Surely a  BSS examination does not require shore power to be available.

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, billh said:

To avoid any doubt- your illustrations are of the WRONG type for the boat end of the cable!

 

I was simply showing examples of the difference between a plug and a socket.

 

A female (socket) 'free-floating' should be installed on the 'boat end' of the cable.

A male (plug) 'free floating' should be installed onto the 'bollard' end of the cable.

 

 

Is that better ?

 

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

I love the way CWDF can make even an obviously really dumb thing to do, like having exposed mains terminals, a source of discussion. 

Next topic, Strychnine on your breakfast cereal. Is this a bad idea? 

[Russ T]

Just now, Jen-in-Wellies said:

 

Next topic, Strychnine on your breakfast cereal. Is this a bad thing? 

Not required in our boat.its the crockery that kills.

It's a cereal killer

[alias]

16 minutes ago, Momac said:

Surely a  BSS examination does not require shore power to be available.

 

It does not, and examiners are now required to disconnect 230v shorelines before the examination.

https://share.google/E9WFEzUCc1x3Jthla

 

 

[Cheese]

It doesn't help that if you search for something 'uk  boat shoreline inlet connector' on popular sites some of the results are for female connectors - but clearly described as suitable for boat/rv. So it is understandble how DIY fitters sometimes get it wrong.

 

Are shore bollards always fitted with an RCD? (Or should they be?)

[Tonka]

5 minutes ago, Cheese said:

It doesn't help that if you search for something 'uk  boat shoreline inlet connector' on popular sites some of the results are for female connectors - but clearly described as suitable for boat/rv. So it is understandble how DIY fitters sometimes get it wrong.

 

Are shore bollards always fitted with an RCD? (Or should they be?)

Have you got the correct acronym?

can you not have an RCBO then

[Jen-in-Wellies]

9 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Are shore bollards always fitted with an RCD? (Or should they be?)

They should be. Trust your life to one being fitted properly and working? At my old CaRT mooring, a sparky was round every six months to test the bollards, including the leakage breaker. Other sites, not so convinced. 

[StephenA]

1 minute ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

They should be. Trust your life to one being fitted properly and working? At my old CaRT mooring, a sparky was round every six months to test the bollards, including the leakage breaker. Other sites, not so convinced. 

 

We've had to leave our shoreline disconnected as CRT are doing a full test of the bollards at Market Drayton. They all have RCDs as ours tripped when the inlet on the boat got damp during some really heavy rain

[Cheese]

1 hour ago, Tonka said:

Have you got the correct acronym?

can you not have an RCBO then

One of those would do as well.

 

The point was more that, if the bollard is working correctly, then even if the boat end and line are wired in reverse, touching the live pins at the end of the line shouldn't be fatal. Not that I would want to test it out!

[IanD]

15 minutes ago, Cheese said:

One of those would do as well.

 

The point was more that, if the bollard is working correctly, then even if the boat end and line are wired in reverse, touching the live pins at the end of the line shouldn't be fatal. Not that I would want to test it out!

So long as you don't touch the neutral pin and *then* the live pin, obviously... 😉 

[jonathanA]

47 minutes ago, IanD said:

So long as you don't touch the neutral pin and *then* the live pin, obviously... 😉 

Nope as it would (should) have tripped when you touched the neutral ...

 

As I often find out when I switch off at the mcb and then inadvertently touch the neutral....

 

In any case I would expect enough earth leakage through the body to trip a 30 mA rcd which should be a two pole one to cover the reversed L-N situation...(at a marina or caravan site)

Edited July 27 by jonathanA
Add marina bit

[IanD]

53 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

Nope as it would (should) have tripped when you touched the neutral ...

 

As I often find out when I switch off at the mcb and then inadvertently touch the neutral....

 

In any case I would expect enough earth leakage through the body to trip a 30 mA rcd which should be a two pole one to cover the reversed L-N situation...(at a marina or caravan site)

Nope, because there's no AC voltage on the neutral to drive >30mA current to earth through the body... 😉 

 

(or at least there shouldn't be, with N-E bonding somewhere nearby...)

 

And if the current flows from L-N through your body, that might not trip either -- though it will if there's enough current from your "live" hand to GND through parasitic leakage.

 

Not to be recommended anyway -- a slightly mad friend who used to run discos with lighting rigs had been known to use the back of one finger (right hand, obviously...) to test for "liveness", and reckoned he could tell the difference between incoming mains and a triac-chopped lighting signal which felt "buzzier"... 😉 

Edited July 27 by IanD

[David Mack]

33 minutes ago, IanD said:

Not to be recommended anyway -- a slightly mad friend who used to run discos with lighting rigs had been known to use the back of one finger (right hand, obviously...) to test for "liveness", and reckoned he could tell the difference between incoming mains and a triac-chopped lighting signal which felt "buzzier"... 😉 

My electrical engineering supervisor related the tale of someone he knew who would deliberately place a finger tip on suspected live metalwork, and after a couple of moments would pronounce "Yes, that's live."

In similar circumstances I've always used the slightest brush with the back of a finger, so if it is live the reflex muscle action pulls the finger away from contact.