Security

[Darrylle]

On 23/07/2026 at 07:15, Russ T said:

Good write up.

 

Can you confirm if this unit uses something other than the soon to be obsolete (2029 for EE) 2g network?

 

Thanks 

I bought these (2 of them) minimum 6 years ago. Even then, 2G was 'on its way out'.
I'm reading that the 'drop dead' date is 2033. But, is that a usual EU compliancy requirement (which we aren't in), and, China certainly never complies with.
In any case - that's 7 years off (and there will be Chinese replacements for 5g etc. out there).
I do have an external GPS antenna and am thinking of how to to connect the GT06N to that (I've seen it done - online), so that I'm not forced to leave it anywhere visible.

I'll be using it with a Synology NAS (with which I intend to control most things on the boat - via Home Assistant). I'm doing this, because I want my own server  'hosting' site - rather than the offered subscription (and I want to use the GPS data to be stored for life - for historical boat travel path etc). 
Starlink is the only option for this.

The Synology software install was provided (script) by the Traccar web tool (site). https://www.traccar.org/
Once wired up, and connected to the Synology - I am thinking that replacing with another tracker should be relatively 'plug 'n play' (just re-hashing the protocols for whichever unit replaces it).

[Russ T]

9 minutes ago, Darrylle said:

I'm reading that the 'drop dead' date is 2033. But, is that a usual EU compliancy requirement (which we aren't in), and, China certainly never complies with.

Pretty sure EE,who you mentioned (1p mobile) have already declared 2029.

 

https://ee.co.uk/2g-3g-switch-off?hl=en-GB

 

[alias]

4 minutes ago, Russ T said:

Pretty sure EE,who you mentioned (1p mobile) have already declared 2029.

 

https://ee.co.uk/2g-3g-switch-off?hl=en-GB

 

 

IIRC because smart metering uses 2g one of the providers has had a financial incentive to keep it going until the older meters are retired.  It's only a question of time, though a few years of use out of a £30 or whatever device is what passes as value for money.

[Russ T]

2 minutes ago, alias said:

 

IIRC because smart metering uses 2g one of the providers has had a financial incentive to keep it going until the older meters are retired.  It's only a question of time, though a few years of use out of a £30 or whatever device is what passes as value for money.

Yes,I wasn't really quibbling over the throw away cost,but the hassle factor if this device requires lots of wiring when an alternative 4g device might be available for similar or not much money.

 

I'm sure some of the other network operators have longer switch off dates,so this device could well suit some people 

[Darrylle]

On 23/07/2026 at 08:50, robtheplod said:

Some routers come with GPS built in these days. combined with an aerial with GPS also makes the signal very reliable... unless of course they rip out the router....     Teltonika do a great range with a good app showing GPS tracking/geofencing etc.....

I have an external GPS antenna. I have already tested a GPS tracker INSIDE the boat (without the antenna) - and I get signals. (Don't ask me how, in a 4 mm thick steel shell - windows / vents possibly.
I'll have 2 of these units (that's £80 per year SIM for both).

Once on the boat (without cutting external satellite and GPS antennas) - if they cut one - they'll probably think they're safe, and I'll have the other. 
Ripping the router out - yep, problem, so is ripping the antennas off, but, I'll be controlling most of the boat via a Synology NAS drive, everything centralised into a web site hosted on it (and Home Assistant). That means I have full control of what-ifs and buts. 
#1: As soon as they 'linger' too long NEAR the boat - I'll know (new 'human detection' sensors are really very good, as opposed to PIR).
#2: I could use Home Assistant 'intelligence' to cut the fuel pump, there and then.
#3: If they THEN cut any critical wiring (GPS / Starlink etc.) - I'll know why I'm disconnected, AND, one of the trackers at least will still be active.
#4: If not cutting the antenna's etc. - as soon as they get on the boat - I'll be informed (human detection, and cameras will be 'snapping' and sending images).
#5: This WILL be my full-time home. Unlikely to be away for longer than a few hours - but - theft is still possible, and I can handle
      that myself.
      If I am away for days - that'll be due to some family 'emergency', and that'll mean a marina - so unlikely. If not a marina, then it
      will require Police response.
#6: I'll likely have some kind of 'manual' fuel pump cut-off also - in such situations. It's not hard to completely disable an engine   
      with one, hidden switch).

I don't pretend this will be fool-proof, BUT... I'll be 'informed' immediately, and, this is a £120k hybrid engine (diesel + massive battery store) - if they can - they'll take it, and having no indication isn't an option - they can strip them in days. 
I'm tending towards the fact that a narrowboat has little leeway to be hidden 'fast'. It has a max. range, a max speed of 6mph, and it's 90% certain it's gone in the direction it was pointing when moored. IF the Police DO respond (as soon as I am certain it's gone) - there will be MINIMAL places to hide it, within a few miles range. Immediately 'KNOWING' is the key - many boats are stolen because people use them at weekends only; THAT is where you really need this.

In this case - of course it will be ENTIRELY up to the level of Police response, and I'm hoping the 'high-ish-value' MAY encourage a bit more 'response'. (It only requires one Police car and a copper - I'll point him at the IMPOSSIBLE range - he need only check stretches along the way back to the mooring).

Naive? Possibly. Paranoid? Likely, but I've had many houses over 50 years, and NEVER been burgled,  (with others around me BEING burgled) - due to me implementing 'security', I like to think. 😉

On 23/07/2026 at 09:55, David Mack said:

I am confused by this! A 'topic' in the forum parlance, is what is generally referred to as a 'thread' by users. Anyone is free to create a new topic/thread title of their own choosing, as indeed you have done with your post.

If you mean that the list of 'Forums' is inappropriate, then why not suggest what new 'forum' headings should be added in the https://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?/forum/4-suggestions-feedback/ section?

And finally, please be aware that most regular forum users view the forum via the 'View New Content' function, which lists new and updated threads across all Forum areas (politics apart), and are therefore not overly concerned about which Forum a subject is listed under. Personally I think it would would be easier if we didn't have the individual Forums at all, then every user would get the VNC view!

 

When I posted, the options of which 'topic' I wanted it placing under - 'Security' wasn't available.

I think that the admin is on the ball, and kindly created one, and slotted this in.

😉
 

 

On 23/07/2026 at 12:50, LadyG said:

Dear me, I gave up after a page or two of this tirade.

 

Agreed - today's generation, if it's not all in a graphical 'meme' - no-one is interested in reading stuff. 😉

 

On 23/07/2026 at 19:09, David Mack said:

My National does have a "diesel pump". But neither the lift pump nor the injector pump has any wires, just a mechanical drive. The stop control is just a lever that pulls the fuel rack to the zero fuel position. It too has no wires, but I have fitted a chain to it, so I can stop the engine from the steering position.

Depends on your engine. But 'lift-pumps' ARE still electric - no? Do you have a 'fuse' for it?
This IS a GPS unit with capability to switch a relay, to cut a 12 volt current - putting it either before or after that fuse, would make it impossible to start. 
It simply cuts the 12v POSSIBILITY of current, to zero. (When and IF - you wish).

On 23/07/2026 at 15:29, Chris John said:

If you have a Victron Cerbo just purchase a GPS plug in from Amazon for £20 and you can see your boat location on VRM and can also add virtual fences.

Works fine in cupboard near hatch 

I also have a Cerbo GX. And you are correct, however - I'm keen on bringing all external 'proprietary' data - in, to my own Synology server - on board. 
E.g. I'm sick of Google, GMail, FB, etc. 'collecting' and having access to MY information. ALEXA? No problem: controlled by MY Home Assistant, on MY hosti web-site. 
So Home Assistant, on my own, INTERNAL hosting site, is what I'm doing - for EVERYTHING - including 'chat', 'email', 'messaging' etc.
Google Maps: I can store all GPS coordinates, forever (for 'historical' travel / paths etc.) and store them INTERNALLY - just for ME. I can then 'overlay' them on Google Maps. Google doesn't have my data, but I can still use it's maps.  
HA will also automate much of the boat - tunnel lights, internal lights, reminding me of low fuel, low water, high pump-out (with a good prediction of the best next stop - to rectify those), battery charging (it's a hybrid diesel / electric motor). 
I'm a ex aerospace engineer, and latterly a systems analyst / software engineer (30 years). I've decided that on my boat - I'll pick up web development (my job required desktop solutions only - so no real 'web' skills).
And the above will be a 'forever' project - in the spare hours. 'Automation' / 'intelligence'. It's a big project - but I'll have years (hopefully).

BTW - 'cutting out the data spies' (Google, FB, Amazon) IS a good thing. Starmer's Nazi digital ID is another thing. He's already tried to ensure that whenever you use the 'Net - you MUST inform the government of who you are; under the pretense of 'protecting children' (whilst millions have being mass-raped - with his party blocking any investigation to ascertain the reason). Labour has mooted blocking all VPN companies. 
Try it Labour - I'll be connecting via a US satellite. Try 'controlling' the US - idiots.  😉

Edited July 27 by Darrylle

[Darrylle]

1 hour ago, Russ T said:

Pretty sure EE,who you mentioned (1p mobile) have already declared 2029.

 

https://ee.co.uk/2g-3g-switch-off?hl=en-GB

 

Yep. And governments declared COVID cold virus would kill us all, AND that the Maldives would sink: 10 years ago. 
I'll go with 2 years if so, simple switch-out for a different £30 unit - that needs no masts - pure satellite. 😉

[Russ T]

5 minutes ago, Darrylle said:

I'll go with 2 years if so, simple switch-out for a different £30 unit - that needs no masts - pure satellite

Fair enough. I was really trying to make other people aware that there might be a better option than your solution already out there,but if they are happy with 3 years,that's fine.

 

You're initial post didn't make it clear that it's potentially obsolete tech.

[Darrylle]

On 23/07/2026 at 15:34, Arthur Marshall said:

I gave up after the first line. As soon as I see a new member kicking off by criticising a well functioning forum I assume the rest is drivel.

ASSUME: makes an 'ASS' out of 'U'  and 'ME'. 😉

I was going to amend the initial post, because the admin was VERY DEFINITELY 'on the ball' (brilliant job), because the thread is now under a 'TOPIC' of 'Security', which was not offered when I created the post.
This 'criticism' from me is likely due to my years of being a systems analyst / software engineer. My job is to imagine EVERY POSSIBLE SCENARIO, in a future 'project'. EVERY possible scenario.
I WOULD have imagined 'security' - even 30 years ago. But, that's due to my life-long training.

Maybe, due to the age of 'canal boating' - 'security' was never a problem - historically. 
It is now though - it is VERY relevant now. Just look at the boat-theft data / sunken, stolen, homes etc.. 😉
 

 

Edited July 27 by Darrylle

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, Darrylle said:

Depends on your engine. But 'lift-pumps' ARE still electric - no?

 

NO, some are but far more are mechanical, but you could always retrofit an electric one, but even then that may not work on a typical narrowboat because there is usually a head of fuel that will feed some injector pumps by gravity, straight through the pump valves, especially if it is one that uses an internal transfer pump like the CAV DPx or Bosch rotary pumps. You may need to fit a hidden fuel cut of solenoid.

[Darrylle]

On 23/07/2026 at 16:15, IanD said:

Are your hatch and doors all steel, and is there a porthole or window or roof light anywhere near the cupboard the antenna is in?

To let GPS signals in through steel needs a hole maybe 10cm or so across (half a wavelength), smaller than this will reduce the signal, less than 2cm and it'll be almost gone. Wood and glass are fine, signals go straight through.

Yep - all steel (I believe the 'standard' is 6mm sides - 4mm roof). Faraday cage. 
Yep - it has all 'port-holes' though (for security) - so not much escape there, and it has thick, glass, ceiling 'prisms' - for light. 
I have a GPS external antenna. Not sure HOW that works - WHAT it is connected to.
I'll find out though.
I know that a Tractive GPS pet tracker DOES 'get out' (it's remote tracking software SHOWS it's current location (not just it's LAST KNOWN location)). 
I need to test that out properly though.
 

22 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

NO, some are but far more are mechanical, but you could always retrofit an electric one, but even then that may not work on a typical narrowboat because there is usually a head of fuel that will feed some injector pumps by gravity, straight through the pump valves, especially if it is one that uses an internal transfer pump like the CAV DPx or Bosch rotary pumps. You may need to fit a hidden fuel cut of solenoid.

Thank you.
So, in that particular case - there are absolutely NO electrics involved that can stop that engine from being started, and this setup is 'common'?
E.g. if there is a combustion engine that requires absolutely no electricity to enable it to start - then I've made a very basic, unforgivable mistake (in my 'trade': I've 'assumed'). 😉
(Apologies for my ignorance - I WILL research this stuff later - I did a quick search, but 'electrics' were seemingly still critical).

Edited July 27 by Darrylle

[StephenA]

12 minutes ago, Darrylle said:

Yep - all steel (I believe the 'standard' is 6mm sides - 4mm roof). Faraday cage. 
Yep - it has all 'port-holes' though (for security) - so not much escape there, and it has thick, glass, ceiling 'prisms' - for light. 
I have a GPS external antenna. Not sure HOW that works - WHAT it is connected to.
I'll find out though.
I know that a Tractive GPS pet tracker DOES 'get out' (it's remote tracking software SHOWS it's current location (not just it's LAST KNOWN location)). 
I need to test that out properly though.
 

Thank you.
So, in that particular case - there are absolutely NO electrics involved that can stop that engine from being started, and this setup is 'common'?
(Apologies for my ignorance - I WILL research this stuff later).

 

A few seconds with some jumper wires and you can start most canalboat engines - take the BMC 1.5  Jump the heaters with a wire from the engine battery. Jump a line to the starter motor. 20 seconds on the heater, then 12v to the starter solenoid and the engine will crank and start. Drop the jumpers and the engine will happily run with no electrics.

[Tony Brooks]

6 minutes ago, StephenA said:

 

A few seconds with some jumper wires and you can start most canalboat engines - take the BMC 1.5  Jump the heaters with a wire from the engine battery. Jump a line to the starter motor. 20 seconds on the heater, then 12v to the starter solenoid and the engine will crank and start. Drop the jumpers and the engine will happily run with no electrics.

 

He did kind of acknowledge that by saying that boats have electric fuel pumps and talking abut turning it off, so I suspect a gap in his knowledge of boats. Incidentally, for the OP's benefit, as you know, the BMCs have mechanical lift pumps and a DPA injector pump with an internal transfer pump.

Edited July 27 by Tony Brooks

[Darrylle]

2 hours ago, alias said:

 

IIRC because smart metering uses 2g one of the providers has had a financial incentive to keep it going until the older meters are retired.  It's only a question of time, though a few years of use out of a £30 or whatever device is what passes as value for money.

Precisely. It's such a simple unit to setup - typical Chinese inventiveness. (And, even I baulk at 240v 'controllers' in my home, but 'quality' is never always as bad as is reported (by WESTERN manufacturers)). 😉

30 minutes ago, StephenA said:

 

A few seconds with some jumper wires and you can start most canalboat engines - take the BMC 1.5  Jump the heaters with a wire from the engine battery. Jump a line to the starter motor. 20 seconds on the heater, then 12v to the starter solenoid and the engine will crank and start. Drop the jumpers and the engine will happily run with no electrics.

2 minutes before - I know you're up to no good. I know the precise location. The police have been called about a £120k theft.
You've crow-barred the locked engine hatch. Jumped in - located the battery, located the connections to start the engine.
It MAY fire, but it dies, because the fuel pump has also been isolated.
You determine where the fuel pump is, you wire IT to the battery.
All in 2 seconds? Really?

However, your analogy to a simple car theft: DOES give me more ideas: this boat has one huge battery bank, but.. it also has 2 other, separate battery sources - ALL are easily 'switched' electronically. Mebbe flashing lights and 120 db horns might put you off a bit - in an area where other boats are moored? That'll extend your 2 seconds somewhat - no?
And it will NEVER be left in an isolated area, and you're not getting on this boat in an isolated area - with me on board (I assure you). 😉

 

 

Edited July 27 by Darrylle

[StephenA]

18 minutes ago, Darrylle said:

Precisely. It's such a simple unit to setup - typical Chinese inventiveness. (And, even I baulk at 240v 'controllers' in my home, but 'quality' is never always as bad as is reported (by WESTERN manufacturers)). 😉

2 minutes before - I know you're up to no good. I know the precise location. The police have been called about a £120k theft.
You've crow-barred the locked engine hatch. Jumped in - located the battery, located the connections to start the engine.
It MAY fire, but it dies, because the fuel pump has also been isolated.
You determine where the fuel pump is, you wire IT to the battery.
All in 2 seconds? Really?

 

 

As has been stated most canalboats have mechanical fuel pumps - even the newer ones so no need to wire any pump to anything .  Some have electrical stop solenoids and those need the reverse of an electrical fuel pump - i.e. they are de-energised 99.9% of the time and only energise to cut the feed to the injector pump

 

I know where the fuel tank cut offs are and the location of the BMs as they're labelled as part of the BSS. 

 

Not saying a tracker isn't a good idea - its just that in the majority of cases trying to immobilise the engine is a non-starter

[Sailbadthesinner]

Darrylle, please stop SHOUTING.

 

[StephenA]

33 minutes ago, Darrylle said:

However, your analogy to a simple car theft: DOES give me more ideas: this boat has one huge battery bank, but.. it also has 2 other, separate battery sources - ALL are easily 'switched' electronically. Mebbe flashing lights and 120 db horns might put you off a bit - in an area where other boats are moored? That'll extend your 2 seconds somewhat - no?
And it will NEVER be left in an isolated area, and you're not getting on this boat in an isolated area - with me on board (I assure you). 😉

 

 

 

Don't think I've ever seen an electrically operated BMS on a boat but I guess you could wire all of those in bypassing the BMS.  But I could just disconnect all the batteries and then jump from an isolated one.

 

And where has the you being on the boat suddenly come from? Boats that are stolen are not occupied, and often they're not even in isolated areas - some have been taken from marinas.

Edited July 27 by StephenA

[Darrylle]

2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

He did kind of acknowledge that by saying that boats have electric fuel pumps and talking abut turning it off, so I suspect a gap in his knowledge of boats. Incidentally, for the OP's benefit, as you know, the BMCs have mechanical lift pumps and a DPA injector pump with an internal transfer pump.

Thank you.
I'm afraid that the term - 'fuel pump' has clouded the issue.
WHATEVER is needed to start any engine is electricity - starter etc. (Unless - you are manually winding the engine up).
A diesel engine requires no further 'spark' (once started) provided by anything (after it's starter - has fired) - due to its immense pressurisation of fuel (so hot - you can spit on it and it'll explode).
An old 'lift-pump' requires no electric supply - period. 

I 'understand' that.

This GPS unit simply uses a simple 'switch' to fire a relay, that provides 12 volts.
If a 12 volt supply is NEVER needed for ANY engine type out there - then this is not for you (but only - out of the box), however, with a little mechanical and electrical know-how, this DOES THIS NOT stop this being used?
An electronic 'valve' CAN be placed between the engine and its fuel source. Simple - no? 
C'mon! It's called 'engineering' - it's really very simple, IF you don't get bogged down in terminology! 😉

 

1 hour ago, StephenA said:

 

Don't think I've ever seen an electrically operated BMS on a boat but I guess you could wire all of those in bypassing the BMS.  But I could just disconnect all the batteries and then jump from an isolated one.

 

And where has the you being on the boat suddenly come from? Boats that are stolen are not occupied, and often they're not even in isolated areas - some have been taken from marinas.

No idea where you got an idea of a 'bypassed' BMS from, or, (if I've misconstrued your reply) - please tell me how a BMS can EVER work - without electricity.
I stated that it has a huge battery bank, AND 2 physically distanced battery banks. 
ALL are 'charge managed' by the BMS - that doesn't mean to say that you can disable their current - by smashing the BMS.
ALL batteries are STILL full of charge, and EVERYTHING directly connected, will still 'work', and EVERYTHING electronically connected - will STILL WORK - and SWITCH - if commanded.

And, my 'scenario' of me being on board a boat that someone is attempting to thieve (in an ISOLATED area), is not unknown. The boat is dark; you have retired for the night; the scum don't know. They attempt a break-in (and yes - they HAVE done this in the UK).
This, as explained - in opposition to 'leaving it in a Marina', where this is even less likely to happen (zero - for secure marinas).
I have NEVER said - it is 'common', I HAVE said: it HAS happened. 

1 hour ago, Sailbadthesinner said:

Darrylle, please stop SHOUTING.

 

SHOUTING, is an entire text of caps. I SHOUT, when I want to emphasise. THAT, is the very REASON for text 'shouting'. 😉 

 

1 hour ago, StephenA said:

 

As has been stated most canalboats have mechanical fuel pumps - even the newer ones so no need to wire any pump to anything .  Some have electrical stop solenoids and those need the reverse of an electrical fuel pump - i.e. they are de-energised 99.9% of the time and only energise to cut the feed to the injector pump

 

I know where the fuel tank cut offs are and the location of the BMs as they're labelled as part of the BSS. 

 

Not saying a tracker isn't a good idea - its just that in the majority of cases trying to immobilise the engine is a non-starter

You'll NEVER find the the electronic valves. I'm a time-served aerospace engineer and a fully qualified Systems Analyst / Software Engineer, with 62 years EXPERIENCE of life.
Your car theft skills (against pathetic car security) have NO chance.
I'm now here to beat the chav scum, and, I'll 'package' and release the solutions - free of profit. (I'm retired - I've worked like a dog for MY retirement, and I'm now a full-time 'chav-scum-beater' - with ZERO need for money). Try and beat me; you can't. 😉

Edited July 27 by Darrylle

[MtB]

Here is a pic of the lift pump on my Kelvin K2 engine:

[Darrylle]

1 hour ago, StephenA said:

 

Don't think I've ever seen an electrically operated BMS on a boat but I guess you could wire all of those in bypassing the BMS.  But I could just disconnect all the batteries and then jump from an isolated one.

 

And where has the you being on the boat suddenly come from? Boats that are stolen are not occupied, and often they're not even in isolated areas - some have been taken from marinas.

Are BMS systems operated by 'steam', or what else? 😉 (Joke mate - don't get 'offended').
BMS MEANS: Battery Management System - they are ENTIRELY dependant on electrical current. 😉 

 

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

Here is a pic of the lift pump on my Kelvin K2 engine:

% of CURRENT narrowboats that have this please?
And, then WORTH stealing? 
My post IS about security. You can leave this unattended for years, and it will likely still be there. 😉

 

[MtB]

6 minutes ago, Darrylle said:

My post IS about security. You can leave this unattended for years, and it will likely still be there. 😉

 

Same applies to all narrowboats.

 

I once returned to my boat after leaving it moored on the towpath two weeks, and was horrified to find the rear doors open and tiller bar on the tiller - for all the world as if someone was about to set off.

 

After a moment's thought I realised I'd gone home and left it like that two weeks earlier. Nothing had been touched.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Darrylle]

1 hour ago, StephenA said:

 

Don't think I've ever seen an electrically operated BMS on a boat but I guess you could wire all of those in bypassing the BMS.  But I could just disconnect all the batteries and then jump from an isolated one.

 

And where has the you being on the boat suddenly come from? Boats that are stolen are not occupied, and often they're not even in isolated areas - some have been taken from marinas.

But, my 'isolated ones' are nowhere near my battery bank - which you can see - in the engine bay.
That's another '2 seconds' to locate THEM - no? All takes '2 seconds' - ALL of this takes 2 seconds - right? 
One set, is 60 feet away, but I know - that's only 1 second to traverse (break the door locks), THEN break the base locks - all in 3 seconds max - right? 
You lied: it was 3 seconds, but in reality, it was 15 minutes - you have NO chance against me - you're much too simple. 😉
LMAO. 😉

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, Darrylle said:

So, in that particular case - there are absolutely NO electrics involved that can stop that engine from being started, and this setup is 'common'?

Not common, but there are plenty of older engines in narrow boats that can be hand started by those who have the strength/stamina and the knack to do so. Most of course also have electric start, but a few don't. Here's an example, owned by a forum member:

 

 

Edited July 27 by David Mack

[Darrylle]

On 23/07/2026 at 09:55, David Mack said:

I am confused by this! A 'topic' in the forum parlance, is what is generally referred to as a 'thread' by users. Anyone is free to create a new topic/thread title of their own choosing, as indeed you have done with your post.

If you mean that the list of 'Forums' is inappropriate, then why not suggest what new 'forum' headings should be added in the https://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?/forum/4-suggestions-feedback/ section?

And finally, please be aware that most regular forum users view the forum via the 'View New Content' function, which lists new and updated threads across all Forum areas (politics apart), and are therefore not overly concerned about which Forum a subject is listed under. Personally I think it would would be easier if we didn't have the individual Forums at all, then every user would get the VNC view!

 

Admins: admin. The list of 'topics' that a new 'thread' may be placed within, is defined BY Admin - YOU as a new user have intentionally been given NO ability to 'add' new 'topics'. THAT, is intentionally allocated to 'Admins'.
I know of NO forums on earth, regarding activity-specific forums (camping. travelling. skiing, sky-diving, skin-diving etc. etc. etc. where the VERY BASIC 'topic' of 'Security', was not available. It WASN'T - here.

THAT, is NOT to say that the admin didn't immediately kick-in... produce the relevant topic called 'Security' and place my topic in it.
Great job.

BUT - I typed what I typed, because it did not exist - AT THE TIME OF ME PLACING my comment!
Admin - THANK YOU, superb job AFTER the requirement, but, my comment stands - it's called PREP and DEDICATION.
Play at it, or DO it - 'playing at it' results in failure. 😉

And all the 'admin' simps are gonna attack me so-bad, to try to gain 'favour'! (But guess what? - the 'admin', is going to contact me and say - yep!, and I'm going to say 'thank you', and simps will get nothing, because fact is fact).

 

).





 

30 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Not common, but there are plenty of older engines in narrow boats that can be hand started by those who have the strength/stamina and the knack to do so. Most of course also have electric start, but a few don't. Here's an example, owned by a forum member:

 

 

If people think, for one minute that I wouldn't WANT this kind of engine to continue - think again.
I'm 62 years old - I've worked like a dog for 50 years, my partner Jane also did, then just died. (Destroying my plans, for us).
I had to work out a new plan - scrapping our retirement house / home plan.
It's done: I've bought an hybrid 60ft, and, I mean to make it as 'technologically' driven as possible.
It's already 'remote controlled' via radio frequency - electric engine / electric bow-thrusters - simple.
It has a good diesel engine also. I have a 'choice' - where diesel... has only diesel.
I've added 5 solar panels (entire length of the boat), because I'm a land-lubber, and max electricity is good.
I know that 'land' solar is a scam, but... on water - it IS a benefit - no argument.
Summer - 10,000% excess (of electricity). Winter - not sure yet but mebbe 10% 

I have a house to prep for sale. No-one knows the extent of this job (it has stables for 12 horses, ALL chocka with tools etc that I now must get rid of).
March 2027 - my Marina contract expires. 
That, is when I will GO... where? No idea - no intent, just MOVE, forever. 

On 23/07/2026 at 09:55, David Mack said:

I am confused by this! A 'topic' in the forum parlance, is what is generally referred to as a 'thread' by users. Anyone is free to create a new topic/thread title of their own choosing, as indeed you have done with your post.

If you mean that the list of 'Forums' is inappropriate, then why not suggest what new 'forum' headings should be added in the https://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?/forum/4-suggestions-feedback/ section?

And finally, please be aware that most regular forum users view the forum via the 'View New Content' function, which lists new and updated threads across all Forum areas (politics apart), and are therefore not overly concerned about which Forum a subject is listed under. Personally I think it would would be easier if we didn't have the individual Forums at all, then every user would get the VNC view!

 

Nothing that you have described, allowed me to create a new 'Topic', of 'SECURITY', for my entry.
Please explain the 'clicks' involved, that will enable this, on this forum.
Sending my 'comment', then WAITING for months a for a forum admin to confirm my submission - is pretty lame - right?
Useless to most people - right?
Pointless waste of EVERY posters time - right? 

On 23/07/2026 at 09:55, David Mack said:

I am confused by this! A 'topic' in the forum parlance, is what is generally referred to as a 'thread' by users. Anyone is free to create a new topic/thread title of their own choosing, as indeed you have done with your post.

If you mean that the list of 'Forums' is inappropriate, then why not suggest what new 'forum' headings should be added in the https://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?/forum/4-suggestions-feedback/ section?

And finally, please be aware that most regular forum users view the forum via the 'View New Content' function, which lists new and updated threads across all Forum areas (politics apart), and are therefore not overly concerned about which Forum a subject is listed under. Personally I think it would would be easier if we didn't have the individual Forums at all, then every user would get the VNC view!

 

Nothing that you have described, allowed me to create a new 'Topic', of 'SECURITY', for my entry.
Please explain the 'clicks' involved, that will enable this, on this forum.
Sending my 'comment', then WAITING for months a for a forum admin to confirm my submission - is pretty lame - right?
Useless to most people - right?
Pointless waste of EVERY posters time - right? 

2 hours ago, StephenA said:

 

As has been stated most canalboats have mechanical fuel pumps - even the newer ones so no need to wire any pump to anything .  Some have electrical stop solenoids and those need the reverse of an electrical fuel pump - i.e. they are de-energised 99.9% of the time and only energise to cut the feed to the injector pump

 

I know where the fuel tank cut offs are and the location of the BMs as they're labelled as part of the BSS. 

 

Not saying a tracker isn't a good idea - its just that in the majority of cases trying to immobilise the engine is a non-starter

Are you a narrowboat thief? 
Is your skill 'common knowledge' amongst car chav thieves?
Electrical systems have paths. Zigbee 'switches' switch ANYTHING, WHEREVER they are.
YOU seem to imply that an engine cannot be nullified electronically.
Are you sure?  
I'll bet MY house on the opposite - will you?

 

On 23/07/2026 at 16:36, IanD said:

That's probably how the signal is getting in then. I'm going to try moving the antenna on mine to see if that helps. If that doesn't work (easier!) then the router has a GPS receiver inside it (using the external cellular antenna), but needs some non-trivial software hacks to make it visible to the Cerbo...

Your ONLY option; is glass, outside of what IS a true Faraday cage (you can't be electrocuted by a lightning strike on your boat).
My GPS trackers (pet. etc. DO 'get out', BUT - I must ensure that they are 100% - I'll have antenna's outside - wired in).

5 hours ago, Russ T said:

Yes,I wasn't really quibbling over the throw away cost,but the hassle factor if this device requires lots of wiring when an alternative 4g device might be available for similar or not much money.

 

I'm sure some of the other network operators have longer switch off dates,so this device could well suit some people 

Forget '2g retirement' - sim slots won't change; 'contracts' will - thus Elon's 'option' - without the Marxist UK government FORCING you to feed YOUR comms through them. 😉

Edited July 27 by Darrylle

[TID Tug Tony]

2 hours ago, Darrylle said:

Are BMS systems operated by 'steam', or what else? 😉 (Joke mate - don't get 'offended').
BMS MEANS: Battery Management System - they are ENTIRELY dependant on electrical current. 😉 

 

% of CURRENT narrowboats that have this please?
And, then WORTH stealing? 
My post IS about security. You can leave this unattended for years, and it will likely still be there. 😉

 

 

You might not consider a boat that requires a manual lift pump and day tank to be worth much but I'll tell you something: for some of us the experience of standing at the helm listening to the beautiful rhythmic beat of a vintage engine is absolutely priceless, sorry, PRICELESS.

[Darrylle]

1 hour ago, TID Tug Tony said:

 

You might not consider a boat that requires a manual lift pump and day tank to be worth much but I'll tell you something: for some of us the experience of standing at the helm listening to the beautiful rhythmic beat of a vintage engine is absolutely priceless, sorry, PRICELESS.

LOL. Yeah - you BE 'offended', about nothing offered, as usual. 😉

 

3 hours ago, Darrylle said:

Admins: admin. The list of 'topics' that a new 'thread' may be placed within, is defined BY Admin - YOU as a new user have intentionally been given NO ability to 'add' new 'topics'. THAT, is intentionally allocated to 'Admins'.
I know of NO forums on earth, regarding activity-specific forums (camping. travelling. skiing, sky-diving, skin-diving etc. etc. etc. where the VERY BASIC 'topic' of 'Security', was not available. It WASN'T - here.

THAT, is NOT to say that the admin didn't immediately kick-in... produce the relevant topic called 'Security' and place my topic in it.
Great job.

BUT - I typed what I typed, because it did not exist - AT THE TIME OF ME PLACING my comment!
Admin - THANK YOU, superb job AFTER the requirement, but, my comment stands - it's called PREP and DEDICATION.
Play at it, or DO it - 'playing at it' results in failure. 😉

And all the 'admin' simps are gonna attack me so-bad, to try to gain 'favour'! (But guess what? - the 'admin', is going to contact me and say - yep!, and I'm going to say 'thank you', and simps will get nothing, because fact is fact).

 

).





 

If people think, for one minute that I wouldn't WANT this kind of engine to continue - think again.
I'm 62 years old - I've worked like a dog for 50 years, my partner Jane also did, then just died. (Destroying my plans, for us).
I had to work out a new plan - scrapping our retirement house / home plan.
It's done: I've bought an hybrid 60ft, and, I mean to make it as 'technologically' driven as possible.
It's already 'remote controlled' via radio frequency - electric engine / electric bow-thrusters - simple.
It has a good diesel engine also. I have a 'choice' - where diesel... has only diesel.
I've added 5 solar panels (entire length of the boat), because I'm a land-lubber, and max electricity is good.
I know that 'land' solar is a scam, but... on water - it IS a benefit - no argument.
Summer - 10,000% excess (of electricity). Winter - not sure yet but mebbe 10% 

I have a house to prep for sale. No-one knows the extent of this job (it has stables for 12 horses, ALL chocka with tools etc that I now must get rid of).
March 2027 - my Marina contract expires. 
That, is when I will GO... where? No idea - no intent, just MOVE, forever. 

Nothing that you have described, allowed me to create a new 'Topic', of 'SECURITY', for my entry.
Please explain the 'clicks' involved, that will enable this, on this forum.
Sending my 'comment', then WAITING for months a for a forum admin to confirm my submission - is pretty lame - right?
Useless to most people - right?
Pointless waste of EVERY posters time - right? 

Nothing that you have described, allowed me to create a new 'Topic', of 'SECURITY', for my entry.
Please explain the 'clicks' involved, that will enable this, on this forum.
Sending my 'comment', then WAITING for months a for a forum admin to confirm my submission - is pretty lame - right?
Useless to most people - right?
Pointless waste of EVERY posters time - right? 

Are you a narrowboat thief? 
Is your skill 'common knowledge' amongst car chav thieves?
Electrical systems have paths. Zigbee 'switches' switch ANYTHING, WHEREVER they are.
YOU seem to imply that an engine cannot be nullified electronically.
Are you sure?  
I'll bet MY house on the opposite - will you?

 

Your ONLY option; is glass, outside of what IS a true Faraday cage (you can't be electrocuted by a lightning strike on your boat).
My GPS trackers (pet. etc. DO 'get out', BUT - I must ensure that they are 100% - I'll have antenna's outside - wired in).

Forget '2g retirement' - sim slots won't change; 'contracts' will - thus Elon's 'option' - without the Marxist UK government FORCING you to feed YOUR comms through them. 😉

 

On 23/07/2026 at 12:50, LadyG said:

Dear me, I gave up after a page or two of this tirade.

 

Sorry - I DID respond to YOUR response (this). 
I'm afraid, that this 'forum' isn't 'usual', at least it doesn't act like forums (hundreds of which I've been a member of).
On actually looking at my original post (even after hours of responding to responses - I had no visibility of my original post - this forum is NOT 'usual').
I saw my original 'novel', and can only say: 'sorry'. Too much. I agree!
I CAN get carried away. 😉 (All IS 'fact', but.....). 

On 23/07/2026 at 17:41, MtB said:

 

That bit amused me too. My Kelvin injector pump doesn't have any wires. One stops the engine by loosening the injector bypass valves. 

 

 

Nor does it have a "diesel pump" per se. Its gravity fed. 

 

 

You DO have electrical wire, with which your engine will fail if cut. 'Simple'.

On 23/07/2026 at 19:09, David Mack said:

My National does have a "diesel pump". But neither the lift pump nor the injector pump has any wires, just a mechanical drive. The stop control is just a lever that pulls the fuel rack to the zero fuel position. It too has no wires, but I have fitted a chain to it, so I can stop the engine from the steering position.

No problem - anyone can start it and sail away with it.
Yours doesn't fit the common scenario of requiring electricity to start, nor an electrical system to pump fuel.
I would design a fail-safe for such as yours, but, it won't benefit me, nor the majority. So, I won't spend time on it. 😉

 

4 hours ago, David Mack said:

Not common, but there are plenty of older engines in narrow boats that can be hand started by those who have the strength/stamina and the knack to do so. Most of course also have electric start, but a few don't. Here's an example, owned by a forum member:

 

 

Yep - I still see the odd Vauxhall Viva on the road.
Can't help IT to be secure - it's 2 wires and gone - always will be. 😉

 

Edited July 28 by Darrylle