GU gear control replacement gears .

[madcat]

I’ve got the bracket and the large gear which has damaged teeth . Any suggestions on a source for replacements. 

 

 

[David Mack]

Are these the bronze gears as originally fitted to GUCCCo craft, or steel replacements?

If bronze you would need a specialist gear repairer to build up additional material and remachine the gear teeth.

Steel bevel gears can be obtained from the likes of HPC gears, but are unlikely to be exactly the same size. The holes would need boring out to fit the 7/8" shafts.

https://www.hpcgears.com/stampede/products/bevel/bevel.php

Edited Monday at 23:23 by David Mack

[alan_fincher]

From memory Archie57, sometimes of this forum, had some made for Paddington but I'm afraid I don't know the details.

[Tonka]

Would Tony Redshaws at Braunston be able to help. I know they make control gears

[madcat]

Thanks for the replies . 
 

the gear I have is the original bronze one . If repaired and paired with a bronze smaller gear that would be the best plan . I don’t currently know where I could get this done . 
 

I might consider the option of steel bevel gears , boring out to fit the shaft isn’t too big a problem . The long rod that runs through the cabin would need cleaning up as it’s had a bit of extra bracket welded on for use with a different system . 
 

I acquired the bracket and the big gear plus the downward rod and the GU hand wheel in one lot which came with a small rusty metal gear that I’m assuming borked the teeth on the big one . 
The long rod that runs through the cabin came with the boat . 

I’m not sure if the big gear makes a complete rotation when operating a Blackstone box . The damage on it is localised to about half the teeth which are badly worn . I’ll try attach a photo later . 
 

any more information would be welcome including suggestions of gear repair specialists . West Midlands based is preferred as I’d like not to have to post irreplaceable items . 

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, madcat said:

I acquired the bracket and the big gear plus the downward rod and the GU hand wheel in one lot which came with a small rusty metal gear that I’m assuming borked the teeth on the big one . 
The long rod that runs through the cabin came with the boat . 

Lucky you! I was looking for all the gear when I refitted a National in Belfast. I got a repro handwheel from Brinklow Boats, 7/8" rods from Rapid Metals (available in metric and imperial sizes), steels gears (can't remember the supplier offhand) and I have made up a crude steel bracket as an interim measure until I can source the proper bronze version. I also had to weld up a connector from the vertical rod to the square shaft on the Bruntons gearbox, as the bronze original had gone missing.

 

1 hour ago, madcat said:

I’m not sure if the big gear makes a complete rotation when operating a Blackstone box .

Do you mean a Bruntons box? The Blackstone box, as fitted to various Listers, has a fore and aft actuating lever, usually operated by a push-pull rod, unless you convert the original GU system, as was done when BW fitted Petter PD2s to some of the ex GU boats.

 

1 hour ago, madcat said:

any more information would be welcome including suggestions of gear repair specialists .

The only company I know of are https://www.highfieldgears.co.uk/ of Huddersfield - convenient for the Huddersfield Narrow Canal. I've not actually used them. 

Google brings up https://www.turnergear.co.uk/ who are nearer you. Don't know whether either company can repair your existing gear, or whether they would just make a new pair to suit.

@RLWP may know of others who could do the job.

[BEngo]

Davall gears or HPC gears will make you whatever you need using an original as the pattern.   They are quite quick and IME not too ridicilously pricey.  They will also machine bores to specific sizes if specified when ordering.

 

Bronze does not normally run well with unhardened steel, but does run well with hardened steel.  Bronze on bronze is likely to gall, but can be done with the right ( different alloy in each gear) bronzes.

[IanD]

5 minutes ago, BEngo said:

Davall gears or HPC gears will make you whatever you need using an original as the pattern.   They are quite quick and IME not too ridicilously pricey.  They will also machine bores to specific sizes if specified when ordering.

 

Bronze does not normally run well with unhardened steel, but does run well with hardened steel.  Bronze on bronze is likely to gall, but can be done with the right ( different alloy in each gear) bronzes.

 

Given the minute loads and negligible rotational speed for this application, I doubt that galling would be an issue -- corrosion resistance might be more important... 😉 

[madcat]

Reply to David Mack. 
Previous boat had gear wheel operation of the Blackstone box . I’m sure there are a few about . There was a photo on here aeons ago of the set up . Fairly straightforward. 
 

so how many revolutions of the big gear does it take from ahead to astern on your Brunton  box . Curious cat is curious 

 

thanks for the recommendation of firms . I’ll investigate. 

That’s it . Supplied by trackrodendsrus 😸

B Engo . I’ll investigate these firms as well , repair of big gear and small one made as original would be my preferred option . 
 

[agg221]

There is a repair technique that can be applied to this situation, but it would probably be two different suppliers.

 

To build up the material I would go for a spray-fuse technique. It's a complex world full of trade names so I would ring Castolin Eutectic in Redditch and explain the situation. They should be able to give you the current relevant trade names for the powders and may well be able to point you at companies which have bought said relevant powders and hence may be able to help.

 

Second step is machining back. The ideal technique for this work is wire EDM but it could be milled conventionally, although it's a rather tricky set-up. Really you would need to find a local machine shop that was up for the challenge.

 

If you get really really stuck on the spray fuse deposition part then I may be able to help. I have the right kit (and it works very well) but I don't have the right powder as I have only used it for repair of cast iron using a nickel-based powder, which was highly effective, see:

 from 30s to 1:30 which includes both the damage before, the repair technique and the finished result (apologies for the AI generated voice - it was a condition my daughter imposed in exchange for editing the video together which was beyond my IT skill set!)

 

Alec

Edited Tuesday at 19:31 by agg221

[archie57]

8 hours ago, David Mack said:

Lucky you! I was looking for all the gear when I refitted a National in Belfast. I got a repro handwheel from Brinklow Boats, 7/8" rods from Rapid Metals (available in metric and imperial sizes), steels gears (can't remember the supplier offhand) and I have made up a crude steel bracket as an interim measure until I can source the proper bronze version. I also had to weld up a connector from the vertical rod to the square shaft on the Bruntons gearbox, as the bronze original had gone missing.

 

Do you mean a Bruntons box? The Blackstone box, as fitted to various Listers, has a fore and aft actuating lever, usually operated by a push-pull rod, unless you convert the original GU system, as was done when BW fitted Petter PD2s to some of the ex GU boats.

 

The only company I know of are https://www.highfieldgears.co.uk/ of Huddersfield - convenient for the Huddersfield Narrow Canal. I've not actually used them. 

Google brings up https://www.turnergear.co.uk/ who are nearer you. Don't know whether either company can repair your existing gear, or whether they would just make a new pair to suit.

@RLWP may know of others who could do the job.

Paul Redshaw was able to supply me with a newly cast bracket similar to original......

[David Mack]

4 hours ago, madcat said:

Reply to David Mack. 
Previous boat had gear wheel operation of the Blackstone box . I’m sure there are a few about . There was a photo on here aeons ago of the set up . Fairly straightforward. 

Yes. That's the same as the modification done when BW installed PD2s. I think Chertsey still has that arrangrment (with a PD2).

I assume Belfast had something similar when BW fitted a PD2, but that was long gone, along with the original control gear, by the time I bought Belfast. But curiously the boat has two control rod sized holes through the back cabin/engine room bulkhead and the timber cabin frame behind, which makes me wonder if BW moved the whole assembly closer to the side of the boat when the PD2 was fitted, so the end of the crank on the bottom of the vertical rod was in line with the gearbox lever, without needing the lateral extension in your picture.

[davidg]

7 hours ago, David Mack said:

Yes. That's the same as the modification done when BW installed PD2s. I think Chertsey still has that arrangrment (with a PD2).

I assume Belfast had something similar when BW fitted a PD2, but that was long gone, along with the original control gear, by the time I bought Belfast. But curiously the boat has two control rod sized holes through the back cabin/engine room bulkhead and the timber cabin frame behind, which makes me wonder if BW moved the whole assembly closer to the side of the boat when the PD2 was fitted, so the end of the crank on the bottom of the vertical rod was in line with the gearbox lever, without needing the lateral extension in your picture.

 

BW put the bracket for the pivot on the bottom of the vertical rod on the outside of the angle on the bulkhead, not the inside as in the photo which put the crank roughly in line. Bear in mind the gearbox operating mechanism was interfacing with a Parsons F type, not a Blackstone box. When I get to the yard I'll take a photo. When I first bought Barrow it had an SR3 in it with a hydraulic box so on the end of all this heavy engineering was a teeny tiny arm to the operating lever on the LH150 and the speedwheel rod had a piece of string wrapped round it which pulled the speed control lever up - proper engineering.😀

[davidg]

Like this, though the F type isn’t on the back of a PD2:

 

[madcat]

BEngo thanks for the suggestions . Duvall looks a big serious outfit , I’ll investigate the others . I’ll be favouring a local option if possible . 
 

Agg221. That looks very interesting. I’ll maybe get back to you yet . 
 

Archie57 luckily I’ve got the bracket 

 

David Mack . I’m looking forward to seeing Belfast when I get out and about with the wee beastie . Photos of old boats and their  details are always interesting. 
 

davidg . Thanks for the photos of your set up on Barrow . Very interesting . Hope to see Barrow for real somewhere about the system when I’m mobile . 
 

Boat life has been derailed by a household mini disaster . The tank for the upstairs bog split and I had a water through the ceiling episode downstairs. So currently not a happy camper and dealing with insurance. One bit of good news was I caught it early before the ceiling came down . Cue damage control with much wet vac action . 
I’d suggest anyone with a ceramic tank give it a coat of looking at , they split in way of the fastenings that hold  them on the wall usually although this one cracked down a corner .