Anchor advice for the Nene, and Ouse,Please.

[David J Smith]

Hi all. We are about to temporarily leave the canals to go down onto the Nene. (Done in the other way before), This time on a different narrowboat. I would like to know what type,/ weight, and the best place to buy one. i.e., Midland swindlers, etc. Our narrowboat, TicketyBoo, is 58ft and 17 tons.

We do hope you can advise, please.

Dave and Diane.

[blackrose]

If you're talking about doing it right now then you could get away without an anchor. The Nene is like a mill pond at the moment where I am near Oundle, with the current probably around 0.1mph. However, I don't know about the Ouse and it looks like we're due for some rain so I guess you'd be best to get an anchor.

Edited May 30 by blackrose

[David J Smith]

Nice thought. But we have seen these rivers in full spate. So not worth the risk.Sorry.

Dave.

[Russ T]

Most people, including us buy the biggest danforth they can lift, with an inadequate length of 10m chain and a length of additional rope. Look out for a second hand one. There are probably loads of people selling them used, as they have sat unused on their boats for decades.

 

Are they the best anchor. Hell no, there are much better (more expensive alternatives), Kobra 2 etc. @Alan de Enfield will be here soon with his list of the others.

[Tony Brooks]

5 minutes ago, Russ T said:

Most people, including us buy the biggest danforth they can lift, with an inadequate length of 10m chain and a length of additional rope. Look out for a second hand one. There are probably loads of people selling them used, as they have sat unused on their boats for decades.

 

Are they the best anchor. Hell no, there are much better (more expensive alternatives), Kobra 2 etc. @Alan de Enfield will be here soon with his list of the others.

 

And as long as the river is wide enough to allow the boat to turn round if going downstream even Danforth would act as a mud weight, slowing the boat relative to the stream so the rudder would allow you to ferry glide into the trees/bank. But not so good of immediately above a weir.

[Russ T]

14 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

And as long as the river is wide enough to allow the boat to turn round if going downstream even Danforth would act as a mud weight, slowing the boat relative to the stream so the rudder would allow you to ferry glide into the trees/bank. But not so good of immediately above a weir.

We always carried ours at the stern, but never used it in anger. Is it sensible, yes, but equably sensible on the Nene and Gt Ouse in particular is signing up and paying attention to the published floodline reports available from the EA and not venturing out when you don't have to, coupled with a reliable engine, and a clean fuel supply.

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

45 minutes ago, Russ T said:

We always carried ours at the stern, but never used it in anger. Is it sensible, yes, but equably sensible on the Nene and Gt Ouse in particular is signing up and paying attention to the published floodline reports available from the EA and not venturing out when you don't have to, coupled with a reliable engine, and a clean fuel supply.

 

 

 

Amen to that, especially the clean fuel supply. A bit of flow catching you unawares and banging you into something hard can stir app all sorts in an unclean tank.

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, David J Smith said:

Hi all. We are about to temporarily leave the canals to go down onto the Nene. (Done in the other way before), This time on a different narrowboat. I would like to know what type,/ weight, and the best place to buy one. i.e., Midland swindlers, etc. Our narrowboat, TicketyBoo, is 58ft and 17 tons.

We do hope you can advise, please.

Dave and Diane.

Loads of anchors second hand, they don't lose their usefulness by being second hand. My chain is marked in fathoms . If you do Facebook, some people do there are loads in FB marketplace, chain and rope as well 

[blackrose]

2 hours ago, David J Smith said:

Nice thought. But we have seen these rivers in full spate. So not worth the risk.Sorry.

Dave.

 

Yes, I said it's best to carry an anchor, but surely you're not thinking of taking your boat out on these rivers in full spate? 

55 minutes ago, Russ T said:

We always carried ours at the stern, but never used it in anger.

 

 

On narrow rivers like the Nene you really need an anchor at both ends of a 60ft+ narrow boat. I guess it depends on the amount of freeboard, but some narrowboats don't have enough and anchoring those stern into the current is a last resort if there's a decent flow on the river.

[Russ T]

18 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

On narrow rivers like the Nene you really need an anchor at both ends of a 60ft+ narrow boat. I guess it depends on the amount of freeboard, but some narrowboats don't have enough and anchoring those stern into the current is a last resort if there's a decent flow on the river.

How many boats do you see pass your window with one adequate anchor, let alone two?

 

I am not saying you are wrong, but I would be very reluctant (if single handed) to leave the helm and try and get to the front end of our boat unless the river was very benign.

[ditchcrawler]

6 minutes ago, Russ T said:

How many boats do you see pass your window with one adequate anchor, let alone two?

 

I am not saying you are wrong, but I would be very reluctant (if single handed) to leave the helm and try and get to the front end of our boat unless the river was very benign.

But if you can't do anything from the helm you may as well try 

[Russ T]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

But if you can't do anything from the helm you may as well try 

Possibly. However, I would not be doing nothing. If I was stupid enough to be moving my boat on the river in strong stream conditions, and lost control, I would be  reaching for the anchor nearest me.

[David J Smith]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

Loads of anchors second hand, they don't lose their usefulness by being second hand. My chain is marked in fathoms . If you do Facebook, some people do there are loads in FB marketplace, chain and rope as well 

Thank you very much brian. But I don't do face ache

[Gybe Ho]

12 minutes ago, David J Smith said:

Thank you very much brian. But I don't do face ache

 

The shareholders of Midland Chandlers are happy to read this.

[Quattrodave]

4 hours ago, blackrose said:

If you're talking about doing it right now then you could get away without an anchor. The Nene is like a mill pond at the moment where I am near Oundle, with the current probably around 0.1mph. However, I don't know about the Ouse and it looks like we're due for some rain so I guess you'd be best to get an anchor.

 

Gt Ouse is the same at the moment, currently moored in st Ives....

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, blackrose said:

On narrow rivers like the Nene you really need an anchor at both ends of a 60ft+ narrow boat

Why two anchors? If you are too long to turn within the width if the river, surely you have the anchor tied off at the bow going upstream and at the stern going downstream.

[PaulJ]

4 hours ago, David J Smith said:

Nice thought. But we have seen these rivers in full spate. So not worth the risk.Sorry.

Dave.

And I expect you may also find a bit of a flow between Salters and Denver depending on when you go through. It might only be a few hundred yards but if your engine fails, prop collects something etc etc it would be nice to have at least the option to be able to chuck an anchor out for the duration of the drama especially if you are the only boat out there now heading for the Wash 😀

[Theo]

Comparing Danforth and Kobra 2.  I would suggest that the big disadvantage of the Kobra is that is will be less easy to store.  If you have a good length of chain cable to hold the stock well down and parallel to the river bed with a long rope warp attached I don't see why the Danforth wouldn't work fine.

 

We, too, also rig the anchor at the upstream end of the boat.

[IanD]

26 minutes ago, Theo said:

Comparing Danforth and Kobra 2.  I would suggest that the big disadvantage of the Kobra is that is will be less easy to store.  If you have a good length of chain cable to hold the stock well down and parallel to the river bed with a long rope warp attached I don't see why the Danforth wouldn't work fine.

 

We, too, also rig the anchor at the upstream end of the boat.

The Kobras up to 10kg (plenty big enough for a narrowboat) have a folding stock so are easy to store, and have better setting and holding power than a 20kg Danforth which is far harder to handle.

 

An anchor should always be rigged at the upstream end, otherwise if you ever have to use it (very unlikely!) the boat will swing round 180 degrees -- might not fit in the channel, and ending up jammed broadside in a current is a very bad idea... 🙂

Edited May 31 by IanD

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Theo said:

If you have a good length of chain cable to hold the stock well down and parallel to the river bed with a long rope warp attached I don't see why the Danforth wouldn't work fine.

 

 

Because it is a design from the 1930's and it just does not work efficiently. If it does 'set' then its not a bad anchor, the problem is that it can take several attempts to get it to set - this is not the end of the world on a coastal boat where it is the end of the day, you are anchoring up for the night and have plenty of time, and space. to deploy it, when it fails, haul it back in and deploy again, repeat, repeat, repeat.

 

The Danforth manufacturers own "Anchor selection chart" suggests that for a 55-60 foot boat you need a 100lb (45kg) anchor.

Whilst the Kobra manufacturers selection chart recommends a 20kg anchor for a 60 foot boat.

 

When a boat on the River is likely to require an anchor it is normally a "brown trouser moment".

The engine has stopped / The gear box has let go, etc etc. and you are heading towards the weir.

 

For this, you need an anchor that works 1st time everytime and the Danforth does not.

 

 

 

 

 

The length of rode and the scope makes a huge difference to the perfomance of the anchor, If you have a poorly perfoming anchor to start with, using a short-rode means you could be only achieving (say) 50% of the anchors (already low) rated holding power.

 

 

 

 

There have been several 'generations" of anchor designs since the '30s, each one improving in perfomance (both holding power and setting ability)

 

Following on from the Danforth there was the CQR, then the 'Plow' (Bruce etc) types and then a later design very similar to the Danforth called the "Fortress" which has astonishing perfomance.

The difference between the fortress is that with computer, more knowledge and CAD this anchor is made with slightly different angles on the flukes, small differences have made real differences.

 

The latest generation of anchors such as the Fortress, Mantus and Manson anchors are a very different kettle of fish to the old designs.

 

Tests by one of the boating magazines :

 

 

 

 

And another ................

 

 

 

 

The Kobra 2 which I have on my cruiser (and IanD has on his NB) is not expensive - I picked mine up for £60 and on a test of 12 anchors conducted by "Yachting Monthly" came 2nd out of the 12 types tested (The Fortress came 1st and the Manson Supreme came 3rd the Bugel which I have as a back up came 4th)

 

 

 

Edited May 31 by Alan de Enfield

[ditchcrawler]

I fully understand all these anchors have been tested, but I wonder how may have actually been tested on the likes of the none tidal Thames or the Nene, even where I am today on the Weaver. I bet there are no areas of sea bed like it. 

 

Just to add everyone on the Broads seem happy with a mud weight 

Edited May 31 by ditchcrawler

[David Mack]

3 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I fully understand all these anchors have been tested, but I wonder how may have actually been tested on the likes of the none tidal Thames or the Nene, even where I am today on the Weaver. I bet there are no areas of sea bed like it. 

And more to the point, how many boaters have tested deploying (and recovering) their anchors in a non-hazard situation. Finding out you don't know how to do it when the powerless boat is speeding towards an unprotected weir crest is not ideal!

[IanD]

11 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I fully understand all these anchors have been tested, but I wonder how may have actually been tested on the likes of the none tidal Thames or the Nene, even where I am today on the Weaver. I bet there are no areas of sea bed like it. 

 

Just to add everyone on the Broads seem happy with a mud weight 

I think it's a reasonable bet that an anchor which is good (or bad) when tested on several different surfaces will also be good (or bad) on the Thames/Nene/Weaver/Styx... 😉

 

What is certain is that the Danforth -- genuine ones, knock-offs may well be worse! --  comes at or near the bottom in every test. They're cheap and widely available and pack flat (which is why they're popular) but set and hold unreliably, which is the last thing you want when deploying one from a narrowboat on a river in an emergency... 😞

 

Admittedly this will be a rare occurrence and most boaters will probably never have to do this in a lifetime of boating -- but just in case you're unfortunate enough to be the unlucky one, it seems sensible to me to have an anchor which is more likely to save your life/boat in such an emergency.

Edited May 31 by IanD

[Alan de Enfield]

14 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I fully understand all these anchors have been tested, but I wonder how may have actually been tested on the likes of the none tidal Thames or the Nene, even where I am today on the Weaver. I bet there are no areas of sea bed like it.

 

I expect that due to the reluctance of inland boaters to buy an anchor that very little in the way of canal, Weaver, etc testing has been undertaken, who is going to fund it ?

 

As the sea bottom can go from 100s of feet of 'soft ooze', thru soft sand, hard sand, gravel, shell, to rocks, kelp and anything else.

 

I'd expect one of the following would cover the Weaver

TECH TIPS: BASIC BOTTOMS

 

ABBREVIATION	BOTTOM TYPE

S	Sand
M	Mud
CY	Clay
SI	Silt
ST	Stones
G	Gravel
P	Pebbles
CB	Cobbles
R, RKY, RK	Rocky
BO, BLDS	Boulders
CO	Coral
SH	Shells
WD	Weed
K	Kelp
SG	Seagrass

 

 

 

TECH TIPS: LESS COMMON BOTTOMS

 

ABBREVIATION	BOTTOM TYPE

OZ	Ooze
SN	Shingle
CK	Chalk
VOL ASH	Volcanic ash
OYS	Oysters
GRS	Grass

 

 

 

TECH TIPS

 

ABBREVIATIONS	QUALIFYING TERMS

F	Fine
M	Medium
C	Coarse
H	Hard
CA	Calcareous
SO	Soft
SY	Sticky
SF	Stiff
HRD	Hard
DEC	Decayed

 

And, we needed to know and remember all these for the RYA "coastal skipper" qualification.

 

9 minutes ago, David Mack said:

And more to the point, how many boaters have tested deploying (and recovering) their anchors in a non-hazard situation. Finding out you don't know how to do it when the powerless boat is speeding towards an unprotected weir crest is not ideal!

 

Excellent point - no point in having it if you don't know how to use it - and - have practised it.

Edited May 31 by Alan de Enfield

[Russ T]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I expect that due to the reluctance of inland boaters to buy an anchor that very little in the way of canal, Weaver, etc testing has been undertaken, who is going to fund it ?

 

As the sea bottom can go from 100s of feet of 'soft ooze', thru soft sand, hard sand, gravel, shell, to rocks, kelp and anything else.

 

I'd expect one of the following would cover the Weaver

TECH TIPS: BASIC BOTTOMS

 

ABBREVIATION	BOTTOM TYPE

S	Sand
M	Mud
CY	Clay
SI	Silt
ST	Stones
G	Gravel
P	Pebbles
CB	Cobbles
R, RKY, RK	Rocky
BO, BLDS	Boulders
CO	Coral
SH	Shells
WD	Weed
K	Kelp
SG	Seagrass

 

 

 

TECH TIPS: LESS COMMON BOTTOMS

 

ABBREVIATION	BOTTOM TYPE

OZ	Ooze
SN	Shingle
CK	Chalk
VOL ASH	Volcanic ash
OYS	Oysters
GRS	Grass

 

 

 

TECH TIPS

 

ABBREVIATIONS	QUALIFYING TERMS

F	Fine
M	Medium
C	Coarse
H	Hard
CA	Calcareous
SO	Soft
SY	Sticky
SF	Stiff
HRD	Hard
DEC	Decayed

 

 

 

 

Excellent point - no point in having it if you don't know how to use it - and - have practised it.

That Ooze one sounds like just the job.