Broad locks - gates

[Saskia]

In all our years of hiring boats, we've almost exclusively navigated narrow locks. When we went through the few wide ones on the Chester section, the hire company advised us to open both gates, but I actually got told off for doing exactly that by an oncoming boat, even after I offered to close the gates behind them 😬

At the risk of opening Pandora’s box: how do you handle wide locks with double gates when you are the only boat around and have no one to share the lock with?
Both gates (partially) open, just one gate open, or something else? And what's your reasoning?

 

[Ex Brummie]

How ever you feel comfortable in operation. When only one gate is opened, there is a risk that the the boat may cause damage to the closing face of the closed gate especially with inexperienced boaters. When this occurs in an empty lock, continued abrasion causes  leakage.

 It is not up to other boaters to berate you because they see your actions as hampering their progress. 

[Arthur Marshall]

Technically you should, I believe, open both gates as a boat rubbing against the edge of one can damage the gate and stop it sealing properly. However, I reckon ninety percent of boaters only open one gate, and probably 100% of single handers. I certainly only ever open one, including when sharing locks. But you were certainly doing it right by the book.

What is certainly totally wrong is the other boat telling you off.  You were in charge of how you boated, and nobody has the right to tell you how to do it unless they see you doing something dangerous. And I certainly wouldn't have offered to help close gates for someone rude enough to tell me off for doing something as I had been instructed.

 

Edited May 16 by Arthur Marshall
ETA crossed with Brummie

[MtB]

It does feel a bit a stupid to open both gates when one is obviously plenty wide enough! 

 

Worse though is when single handing a double lock and a passer-by 'helpfully' opens the opposite gate too, then walks off meaning you now have to walk all the way around the lock to shut it again, after closing the gate your side. 

 

 

[alan_fincher]

Good answers from both Ex Brummie and Arthur.

Opening both gates (or the second one at least partially) minimises damage to the sealing edge of the gate you would otherwise have left closed.

I suspect though that many are confident they can squeeze though just one gate withot touching the other.  Easier if you are just 6' 10" wide than it is with our "Historic" at more like 7' 1" and nearly 72 ft long.

[David Mack]

Almost every pair of wide bottom gates leaks 2-3 feet above the lower water level due to the wear on the mating faces from boats opening only one gate and contacting the other as they enter or leave the lock. CRT seem to just accept this, whereas on the Wey you are specifically told to always fully open both gates, whatever beam the boat is. 

[matty40s]

45 minutes ago, MtB said:

It does feel a bit a stupid to open both gates when one is obviously plenty wide enough! 

 

Worse though is when single handing a double lock and a passer-by 'helpfully' opens the opposite gate too, then walks off meaning you now have to walk all the way around the lock to shut it again, after closing the gate your side. 

Almost as bad as exiting the lock through one side (seeing 1 boat coming towards the lock) and to be shouted at as apparently there are 2 boats coming.

[LadyG]

I rarely open both gates, but if there is an extra factor like strong current or strong gusty wind. I might do so, sometimes having been through that procedure the damn thing starts to close of its own accord ....grr. 

I try to make sure that I dont touch the gates if going in with one closed, arriving at an angle and straightening up amidships seems to work sometimes. . 

[MtB]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

Almost every pair of wide bottom gates leaks 2-3 feet above the lower water level due to the wear on the mating faces from boats opening only one gate and contacting the other as they enter or leave the lock. CRT seem to just accept this, whereas on the Wey you are specifically told to always fully open both gates, whatever beam the boat is. 

 

Same on the Upper Thames. But then there are poles that live on hooks on each gate for you to use to open/close the gate opposite, without having to walk all the way around.

[GUMPY]

Two gate points to bear in mind:

1: when going uphill if you only partially open the second gate there is a good chance it will slam shut and hit your boat unless you are going very slowly.

2: when going downhill the second gate will almost always swing open as you are entering the lock.

[Bristolfashion]

As far as I can determine, we're a bit narrow - 6'81/2" maybe, so in "normal" conditions, we'd only open one gate. If there's any chance of a problem - wind, turbulence, gate not quite opening fully etc we'll open the other one a bit. 

[LadyG]

24 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

Two gate points to bear in mind:

1: when going uphill if you only partially open the second gate there is a good chance it will slam shut and hit your boat unless you are going very slowly.

2: when going downhill the second gate will almost always swing open as you are entering the lock.

Even if both are open i still creep in to the side I intend to disembark. Its a bit of a nightmare if you have to slam it in to reverse, and then the boat kicks out due to propwash and you look a right plonker.

[Gybe Ho]

5 hours ago, MtB said:

Worse though is when single handing a double lock and a passer-by 'helpfully' opens the opposite gate too, then walks off meaning you now have to walk all the way around the lock to shut it again, after closing the gate your side. 

 

 

I remember that day, I thought the exercise would do you good.

 

Edited May 16 by Gybe Ho

[MtB]

54 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

Two gate points to bear in mind:

1: when going uphill if you only partially open the second gate there is a good chance it will slam shut and hit your boat unless you are going very slowly.

2: when going downhill the second gate will almost always swing open as you are entering the lock.

 

Both these happen because the water displaced by your boat has to flow out of the lock as you go in, and it pushes the other gate unless both are fully open. 

 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

2 hours ago, matty40s said:

Almost as bad as exiting the lock through one side (seeing 1 boat coming towards the lock) and to be shouted at as apparently there are 2 boats coming.

I assume that any sensible boat driver will then enter the lock, shove themselves over to the othe side so leaving the way clear for the 2nd boat to enter. May be easier in a short boat like mine.

[GUMPY]

14 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Both these happen because the water displaced by your boat has to flow out of the lock as you go in, and it pushes the other gate unless both are fully open. 

 

Thank you for explaining it for those that don't know.

 

I'm not one of them.

 

 

[jonathanA]

2 hours ago, David Mack said:

Almost every pair of wide bottom gates leaks 2-3 feet above the lower water level due to the wear on the mating faces from boats opening only one gate and contacting the other as they enter or leave the lock. CRT seem to just accept this, whereas on the Wey you are specifically told to always fully open both gates, whatever beam the boat is. 

i think CRT now fit 'sacrificial' wood strips on the mitre faces that are relatively easy to replace.  obviously only on fairly recently replaced gates.. 

 

if not sharing a wide lock then we'll usually open one gate only and carefully pass the closed gate, or i might slightly open it depending on if i'm round that side doing the paddles whilst 'er indoors brings the boat in. very unusually (for many boating couples) she'll drive the boat in locks whilst i do the lock wheeling. seems most often its the ladies that do the lock wheeling whilst the 'Mr captain' drives the boat. 

[Twopints]

3 hours ago, David Mack said:

Almost every pair of wide bottom gates leaks 2-3 feet above the lower water level due to the wear on the mating faces from boats opening only one gate and contacting the other as they enter or leave the lock. CRT seem to just accept this, whereas on the Wey you are specifically told to always fully open both gates, whatever beam the boat is. 

 

Volunteer lockies at Marsworth are instructed to open both gates.

[MtB]

46 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

 

Thank you for explaining it for those that don't know.

 

I'm not one of them.

 

 

 

Thought I ought to as you hadn't.

 

Not every one here is as smart as you! 

 

 

[GUMPY]

Just now, MtB said:

 

Thought I ought to as you hadn't.

 

Not every one here is as smart as you! 

 

We all bow to your superior knowledge 🫣

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I assume that any sensible boat driver will then enter the lock, shove themselves over to the othe side so leaving the way clear for the 2nd boat to enter. May be easier in a short boat like mine.

I do that in a full length boat. Although sometimes I don't get the bows fully across, and the other boat has to do that as it slides in alongside. Some steerers are fine with that. Others seem very unwilling to actually touch the hulls together at all.

[system 4-50]

4 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Same on the Upper Thames. But then there are poles that live on hooks on each gate for you to use to open/close the gate opposite, without having to walk all the way around.

Do you have any pics?  Is there any reason why the canals could not have them?

[Arthur Marshall]

23 minutes ago, David Mack said:

I do that in a full length boat. Although sometimes I don't get the bows fully across, and the other boat has to do that as it slides in alongside. Some steerers are fine with that. Others seem very unwilling to actually touch the hulls together at all.

I've met a few shiny boats who just refuse to share wide locks anyway. Otherwise, yes, you just gently bump each other straight.

[ditchcrawler]

2 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

Do you have any pics?  Is there any reason why the canals could not have them?

Someone would pinch them in the first night 

27 minutes ago, David Mack said:

I do that in a full length boat. Although sometimes I don't get the bows fully across, and the other boat has to do that as it slides in alongside. Some steerers are fine with that. Others seem very unwilling to actually touch the hulls together at all.

My normal method IF I think the other steerer can get through one gate 

[LadyG]

3 hours ago, David Mack said:

I do that in a full length boat. Although sometimes I don't get the bows fully across, and the other boat has to do that as it slides in alongside. Some steerers are fine with that. Others seem very unwilling to actually touch the hulls together at all.

Yep, these steel boats are designed for a rugged life, sometimes newbies are a bit precious if the paintwork is pristine