34 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

It isn't up to the local Labour party who stands in Makerfield. They can be overuled by the NEC to parachute in their favoured candidate. Happened to Burnham in the last byelection he tried to get selected for. Could happen again. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/nec-members-subgroup-how-vote-andy-burnham-b1268155.html

If Burnham (or anyone else) was parachuted in it'd look even worse....

I suggest a new strategy for the Labour Party:

Appoint a slightly right of centre leader of the Party.

Win an election & form a government.

3 months later replace the leader with a firmly leftist but not extreme leftist leader.

Actually make some changes to the way the country is run.

After 3 years replace the leftist leader with a new centrist leader who promises the electorate to weaken all the leftist changes but actually does very little except harsh anti-immigration measures.

Win the next election.

Rinse & repeat.

2 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

I suggest a new strategy for the Labour Party:

Appoint a slightly right of centre leader of the Party.

Win an election & form a government.

3 months later replace the leader with a firmly leftist but not extreme leftist leader.

Actually make some changes to the way the country is run.

After 3 years replace the leftist leader with a new centrist leader who promises the electorate to weaken all the leftist changes but actually does very little except harsh anti-immigration measures.

Win the next election.

Rinse & repeat.

Is this based on the Tory strategy?

Win an election with a quiz show contestant. Replace him after eighteen months with someone clearly completely bonkers. Replace her after 49 days with a banker dweeb who lost his rain coat. 

Lose the next election. Oops. 

1997 Makerfield result :

Party - Candidate - Votes - Percent of votes cast

Labour - Ian McCartney - 33,119 - 73.6%
Conservative - Michael Winstanley - 6,942 - 15.4%
Liberal Democrats - Bruce Hubbard - 3,743 - 8.3%
Referendum - Andrew Seed - 1,210 - 2.7%

How the mighty have fallen.....

2 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

It isn't a very effective way to vet candidates.

 

From their past performance, perhaps Tory  candidates should be vetted by the local vet, as in neutered... 🤣

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Justin Smith said:

The British electorate don't take kindly for being taken for mugs, 

 

Oh I don't know, they swallowed the Brexit propaganda... 🤣

Edited May 15May 15 by cuthound
To insert spaces between merged posts

On 14/05/2026 at 18:17, phantom_iv said:

 

Hmmm, well Reform are ahead in the polls there. It will be an uphill battle to win the seat. Seems like he's been thrown a hospital pass... might be a cunning plan to keep him out?

 

It's a gamble for him certainly, but he doesn't need to resign as Mayor to stand, so if he loses he still has a couple of years of salary to rely on, and maybe more.

 

If he wins though, he can claim to be the man who can beat reform against the odds, which I suspect would do significant damage to their standing.

I don’t think it would do much damage to Reform if he beats them but beating them will be a big plus point for him in the leadership election

6 hours ago, Justin Smith said:

1997 Makerfield result :

Party - Candidate - Votes - Percent of votes cast

Labour - Ian McCartney - 33,119 - 73.6%
Conservative - Michael Winstanley - 6,942 - 15.4%
Liberal Democrats - Bruce Hubbard - 3,743 - 8.3%
Referendum - Andrew Seed - 1,210 - 2.7%

How the mighty have fallen.....

You really love living in the past don't you? You do realise that 1997 was nearly 30 years ago now. In terms of relevance what was the result in 1950 (as that will have much the same relevance today). To post something relevant you should have quoted the 2024 election results which were:-

 

Josh Symons (Labour) - 18,202 (45.2%)

Robert Kenyon Reform - 12,803 (31.8%)

Simon Finkelstein (Conservative) - 4,379 (10.9%)

John Skipworth (Liberal Democrats) - 2,735 (6.8%)

The Rest - 2,162 (5.3%)

 

Doesn't mean that Burnham's election is any sort of 'done deal' but whether you like it or not, he remains quite popular in Manchester, in fact he is about the only politician with a positive approval rating. All of the other potential Labour Leader candidates have negative approval ratings.......along with Farage. Out of a pretty poor crop, and with no real skin in the game from me, he is about the only one who might make a decent Prime Minister.

 

Farage on the other hand would just about finish this country off, completing the job he started with Brexit. Discounting Farage, Starmer and Burnham, is there any politician you would have any faith in as Prime Minister?

 

20 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

To post something relevant you should have quoted the 2024 election results which were:-

Or the 2026 local election results, which I posted earlier.

3 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Or the 2026 local election results, which I posted earlier.

Local elections aren't necessarily a predictor of by-election results since the turnout is always poor in local election (circa 37%/38% in the constituency this time around). By-elections historically only fare slightly better but if the voters realise that they may well be voting for the next PM the turnout could improve (but not necessarily just for Labour). There might be a bigger turnout for Reform if they see Burnham as a greater threat to their General Election chances than Starmer or any of the other candidates.

 

None of which alters the fact that the 1997 election result quoted by another poster is utterly irrelevant. When I lived in North London in the 1970's, the constituency I lived in would have elected anyone with a blue rosette on (Reginald Maudling at the time). Now it is a Labour constituency, doesn't really prove anything constructive today.

11 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Local elections aren't necessarily a predictor of by-election results since the turnout is always poor in local election (circa 37%/38% in the constituency this time around). By-elections historically only fare slightly better but if the voters realise that they may well be voting for the next PM the turnout could improve (but not necessarily just for Labour). There might be a bigger turnout for Reform if they see Burnham as a greater threat to their General Election chances than Starmer or any of the other candidates.

 

None of which alters the fact that the 1997 election result quoted by another poster is utterly irrelevant. When I lived in North London in the 1970's, the constituency I lived in would have elected anyone with a blue rosette on (Reginald Maudling at the time). Now it is a Labour constituency, doesn't really prove anything constructive today.

Indeedy. When this crops up, Dennis Skinner and Bolsover always springs to mind. It was an absolute impossibility for Conservatives ever to take that seat. 

Starmer may well be dead in the water. But, the release of all the info concerning Mandelson, likely to put the nail in the PMs coffin, is something to celebrate. This can still happen in our system, broken as it is. A government will release stuff that condemns it. 

It stands in total contrast to johnsons suppression and manipulation of the inquiry into Russian interference in his own election victory. And very starkly in contrast in Trumps regimes suppression of the Epstein data, which is now being reported as containing testimony from a child forced to fellate Trump and threatened afterwards to ensure silence. 

Whats for certain is that if Farage gets his way, we wont get this sort of information ever again. His reaction to exposure of his '£5m gift' says it all. 

Edited June 1Jun 1 by Tigerr

The "take out" for us all, Is to be very very wary of "Influencers" especially the "very well connected and very charming" INFLUENCERS.

Their Influence, at best may be far from benign, but, as has been seen here,  even at the very top rungs of the US UK Power Society, absolutely depraved toxicity. 

We are right now to hold these "INFLUENCERS"  and their enablers to account as well. Those that enabled avoidance of any sort of prudent scrutiny. 

To the UK's credit, holding the well connected enablers, including,  even the late Queen,  and current PM,  to account, seems far more advanced then on the other side of the Atlantic. 

 

 

On 15/05/2026 at 14:29, Justin Smith said:

1997 Makerfield result :

Party - Candidate - Votes - Percent of votes cast

Labour - Ian McCartney - 33,119 - 73.6%
Conservative - Michael Winstanley - 6,942 - 15.4%
Liberal Democrats - Bruce Hubbard - 3,743 - 8.3%
Referendum - Andrew Seed - 1,210 - 2.7%

How the mighty have fallen.....

Results of 2019 general election:

Conservatives - 365 seats

Labour - 203 seats

Lib Dems - 11 seats

 

Results of 2024 general election:

Conservatives - 121 seats

Labour - 412 seats

Lib Dems - 72 seats

 

Some fall harder and faster and one thing is certain, in Makerfield 2026...

 

The tories will be in third or fourth place.

 

Unusual in depth scientific poll!        Not sure what the police would think of the wording?

 

 

To lose one Defence minister may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose two looks like carelessness.

When is the last time the Secretary of state for Defence resigned because he though insufficient money was being spent on our armed forces ? And if and when that ever happened did the Armed Forces Minister also resign ? 
Is this a first for Starmer ?

 

But to expect Labour to cut welfare and spend it on defence is never going to happen, certainly not the lot we've got in at the moment.

 

On 04/06/2026 at 09:26, carlt said:

Results of 2019 general election:

Conservatives - 365 seats

Labour - 203 seats

Lib Dems - 11 seats

 

Results of 2024 general election:

Conservatives - 121 seats

Labour - 412 seats

Lib Dems - 72 seats

 

Some fall harder and faster and one thing is certain, in Makerfield 2026...

 

The tories will be in third or fourth place.

 

Yes how the mighty have fallen #2

 

Labour's vote :

2019 General Election
10.3 million (32.1% of those who voted)

 

2024 General Election
9.7 million (33.7% of those who voted)

Edited June 12Jun 12 by Justin Smith

4 hours ago, Justin Smith said:

 

 

 

Yes how the mighty have fallen #2

 

Labour's vote :

2019 General Election
10.3 million (32.1% of those who voted)

 

2024 General Election
9.7 million (33.7% of those who voted)

No argument from me.

 

If the centre right of Labour had supported Corbyn in 2019 then he would have won the election.

 

I'm not sure why you are offering labour's demise as some sort of defence against the collapse of the Tories.

 

I cut up my Labour Party membership card and returned it when Starmer became leader.

 

I despise the Tory-lite party they've become and revel in Starmer's troubles.

Edited June 12Jun 12 by carlt

11 minutes ago, carlt said:

 

I cut up my Labour Party membership card and returned it when Starmer became leader.

 

I despise the Tory-lite party they've become and revel in Starmer's troubles.

Does it not trouble you that if large numbers of (former) Labour supporters do the same, we might end up with Farage as PM?

15 minutes ago, carlt said:

No argument from me.

 

If the centre right of Labour had supported Corbyn in 2019 then he would have won the election.

 

I'm not sure why you are offering labour's demise as some sort of defence against the collapse of the Tories.

 

I cut up my Labour Party membership card and returned it when Starmer became leader.

 

I despise the Tory-lite party they've become and revel in Starmer's troubles.

Labour are not "Tory Lite", not real Tory anyway. Tories haven't been Tories since Major, or even since Thatcher.

Having said that Starmer has introduced stuff that is far left by any historical precedent, classic Labour : Tax more, Spend more, Regulate more.....

5 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Does it not trouble you that if large numbers of (former) Labour supporters do the same, we might end up with Farage as PM?

Left wing members did as Starmer asked. They left. Many former Labour voters have followed them. They have moved to the Greens, LibDems, Plaid and SNP. Only a few have gone to Reform UK Ltd. Very few have moved from Reform UK Ltd to Labour, despite the huge effort Starmer and Mahmoud have gone too to ape Reform UK Ltd policy. If you don't want to vote for a right wing party, then why vote Labour? 

https://jacobin.com/2026/05/uk-elections-labour-reform-greens

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/keir-starmer-labour-prime-minister-tiktok-prime-b2627806.html

 

23 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Left wing members did as Starmer asked. They left. Many former Labour voters have followed them. They have moved to the Greens, LibDems, Plaid and SNP.

And Your Party. I wonder what happened to them...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/jun/07/your-party-split-left-cannot-stick-together

24 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Only a few have gone to Reform UK Ltd. 

Really? Then who are all those voters in former Labour strongholds who voted in Reform councillors in large numbers last month?

I will vote for a centre-left Labour party.  I won't vote for a Left-left Labour party.  There are millions like me (I've just popped out and counted).   Labour need to understand clearly that after pretending to be centrist to get into government, they need to be united  in being centrist or united in being leftist whilst in government, they cannot afford to splinter into a mixture of flavours of the two when they can achieve nothing. 

Edited June 12Jun 12 by system 4-50

8 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

they cannot afford to splinter into a mixture of flavours of the two when they can achieve nothing. 

Hopefully Reform and Restore are going to find that out!

25 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

I will vote for a centre-left Labour party.  I won't vote for a Left-left Labour party.  There are millions like me (I've just popped out and counted).   Labour need to understand clearly that after pretending to be centrist to get into government, they need to be united  in being centrist or united in being leftist, they cannot afford to splinter into a mixture of flavours of the two when they can achieve nothing. 

 

That is What I told the Labour canvasser before the last election.  Labour can not govern properly because their wings rebel and won't let them. The best i can do at present it vote Libdem, not that it is any more than a wasted vote in my constituency. Boundary change so what was true blue suddenly went red, not that it is necessarily a bad thing if only they could get their act together and install some party discipline.

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

Does it not trouble you that if large numbers of (former) Labour supporters do the same, we might end up with Farage as PM?

Not one bit.

 

Farage is not going to become PM.

 

I voted Labour in the local elections, btw, and they beat Reform.

 

Tactical voting will beat the rise of Fascism.

 

I will vote whichever way is likely to beat the fascists standing.

 

I don't have to be a member of a political party to vote for them.