Confused by gas

[JackieG]

Hi, We've picked up our first narrowboat a week ago. Last week the gas was working fine to use the cooker. When we went back after 5 days couldn't get it to work. Gas is definitely on at bottle and lever beside cooker. The bottle is heavy (much heavier than the empty one on the boat), so presumably not empty. Then we get a call that our carbon monoxide detector was going off. It wasn't when we got to the boat. Do we need to get a gas engineer out ? How do we find one ? We're in a marina on the River Stort.

[MtB]

Sounds to me as though yes you need a gas engineer qualified to work on LPG on boats to diagnose why the cooker has stopped working. Either the regulator has failed (have you tried giving it a clout?) or there is LPG condensate (a gloopy liquid resembling thick engine oil) blocking the pipework. How old it the boat? 

 

 

[JackieG]

The boat is quite old. 1991. I did wonder about the regulator. It seems to have a button to reset, but nothing happens when I push it. One of our neighbours said he hadn't seen a regulator like ours before. Can't see any gloopy liquid anywhere. 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

39 minutes ago, JackieG said:

The boat is quite old. 1991. I did wonder about the regulator. It seems to have a button to reset, but nothing happens when I push it. One of our neighbours said he hadn't seen a regulator like ours before. Can't see any gloopy liquid anywhere. 

A picture of the regulator could be useful. Even if all it does is prompt someone to say, "not seen one of those in years, give it to a museum and get a new one".

[Tony Brooks]

8 minutes ago, JackieG said:

Can't see any gloopy liquid anywhere. 

 

You would not, if that is the cause. It collects in the pipework in any bends of any little filters/strainers that some manufacturers have fitted in the inlet connection. Not a DIY job to check if you are a live aboard but fine for a holiday boat if you are/can prove competence in as work. 

[LadyG]

Buy a new regulator.  Turn off at the bottle when not in use,  as a precaution 

I would also replace tbe hose, make sure it is fitted properly.

Buy a bottle of gas detecting fluid and test every joint, and at the bottle, when valve is open and maybe even when closed,  check for wear on pipe eg at bulkheads.

Buy another CO monitor (Kidde have a new model), check date and batteries on the one you have.

Get the current Boat Safety Certificate out, it may give you an idea of where to find a GasSafe BoatSafe Examiner, regardless of whether you meet some legal nicety 

I doubt Original Poster (OP) can prove competence, having this posted on here, proves  "incompetance"

 

Edited April 26 by LadyG

[Russ T]

If your regulator has an OPSO valve, check it hasn't activated 

[Russ T]

Some times they pull out, not press to reset

[Alan de Enfield]

The regulators should be replaced every 10 years.

There should be a date marked on it so you can find the age.

[Hudds Lad]

Definitely take pics to identify your regulator and find out it's age/make/model etc.

 

As an example, i did this to ours and found out that not only was it due replacing it had also been subject to a manufacturers recall for safety (sod's law we were a couple of month's outside the date where they would replace at their cost).

 

The OPSO valve is also a good shout. Second time i turned the gas on with our new one the hob wouldn't work, turned out the OPSO had activated and it took a bit of doing to get it reset, mainly due to having to shove my head in the gas locker with a torch and reach backwards to apply enough pressure on the button  

[Arthur Marshall]

It could be as simple as the regulator not having switched to the full bottle from the empty one.  Is it an automatic switch over one? If it's very old it may not be and there msy be a knob to turn, not just a button to push. If you left a pilot light on while away while switched to the old bottle it may just have run out of gas.  If unsure, I'd try switching the bottles round and see if that makes any difference.

[Stroudwater1]

Just now, Arthur Marshall said:

It could be as simple as the regulator not having switched to the full bottle from the empty one.  Is it an automatic switch over one? If it's very old it may not be and there msy be a knob to turn, not just a button to push. If you left a pilot light on while away while switched to the old bottle it may just have run out of gas.  If unsure, I'd try switching the bottles round and see if that makes any difference.

That’s what I would do too. Has the boat hung around for a long time unused It would be odd for the regulator to be faulty within a week of ownership otherwise? 

 

No idea why the CO monitor went off. If the gas was switched off and the stove hadn’t been used why would CO be created in a boat closed off unless someone next next door vented in CO from their boat which seems unlikely. 
 

Out of interest why do regulators need replacement every ten years? Is it similar to the rubber pipes “needing changing every 5 years” when they don’t unless chafed or looking at all suspect? 

[Tacet]

.

Edited April 26 by Tacet
Second thoughts

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

Buy a new regulator. But dont use the cooker till this is diagnosed, Turn off at the bottle.

I would also replace tbe hose, make sure it is fitted properly.

Buy a bottle of gas detecting fluid and test every joint, when bottle is open obviously.. check for wear on pipe eg at bulkheads.

Buy another CO monitor (Kidde have a new model), check date and batteries on the one you have.

Get the current Boat Safety Certificate out, it may give you an idea of where to find a GasSafe BoatSafe Examiner, regardless of whether you meet some legal nicety 

I doubt he can prove competence, having posted on here, proves  "incompetance"

 

So why should the OP buy a new regulator if thats not the problem or replace all the hoses if they are good and in date, that is not the best way to fault find although lots do it that way. change a bit and see if it works, if not change another bit. Also whygo round testing joints when no leak is suspected

[LadyG]

I had no idea regulators needed replaced. I bought a new one recently, it is all metal, except for a washer, there is a spare. No detailed instructures, no date.

Edited April 26 by LadyG

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Russ T said:

If your regulator has an OPSO valve, check it hasn't activated 

I don't think from the OPs first post they will have a clue what you are talking about. 

[LadyG]

This is true, having googled the image, I can confirm that I dont have an OPSO valve, or if I do its not obvious. Should all boats have them?

PS no one picked up on OPs CO alarm. I would suggest the batteries are failing, mine has a cheep cheep cheep that keep cheeping till batteries are replaced.

Alternatively it could be faulty, these things happen.

Buy a new one, plus a few smoke alarms, these alarms are designed for domestic use, in a narrowboat they need to be placed where they are most usefull.

PS dont forget to hang your fireblanket on a hook in the galley, aparently keeping in a drawer is not a good plan DAMHIK

 

 

Edited April 26 by LadyG

[BoatingLifeUpNorth2]

What cooker have you got? 
 Is the whole cooker not working?

is the oven working?

Is the grill working?

Are all the rings working?

 
 

[Stroudwater1]

15 minutes ago, LadyG said:

This is true, having googled the image, I can confirm that I dont have an OPSO valve.

PS no one picked up on OPs CO alarm. I would suggest the batteries are failing, mine has a cheep cheep cheep that keep cheeping till batteries are replaced.

Alternatively it could be faulty, these things happen.

Buy a new one, plus a few smoke alarms, these alarms are designed for domestic use, in a narroeboat they need to be placed where they are most usefull.

PS dont forget to ha g your fireblanket on a hook in the galleu, aparently keeping in a drawer is not a good plan DAMHIK

 

 

You did mention the battery which could be why others didn’t mention it anymore..

 

So far you’ve suggested many changes probably needlessly. We only know the CO alarm went off but we aren’t even sure if it’s theirs let alone why. It could be the battery but it’s best to test it first by pressing the CO meter button if there is one. It seems likely they have smoke alarms already… Boating can be expensive but it becomes much more if you start peppering with fears of change this and that. 

 

[JackieG]

Hi, thank you for replies. So the cooker is a Thetford. We've only tried to light the hobs, not the grill or oven.

I will post a picture of the regulator later.

There are 2 CO alarms. The previous owner told us one is old and doesn't work and the other is brand new. So maybe it was just the battery on the old one. I've long pressed buttons on the old and new and both beeped for me.

 

Lots to learn !

[LadyG]

57 minutes ago, Stroudwater1 said:

You did mention the battery which could be why others didn’t mention it anymore..

 

So far you’ve suggested many changes probably needlessly. We only know the CO alarm went off but we aren’t even sure if it’s theirs let alone why. It could be the battery but it’s best to test it first by pressing the CO meter button if there is one. It seems likely they have smoke alarms already… Boating can be expensive but it becomes much more if you start peppering with fears of change this and that. 

 

I am belt and braces, the OP can decide to do nothing if he chooses  

I am suggesting things which I have done on my 1999 boat which had not been changed by the original owner, even though he was a competent fitter and would know the rules and regulations, which the OP does not.

OP has a problem.

The regulator will almost certainly  not be new unlikely to be date stamped.  

The gas hose can often not be dated, as in date of installation. It still needs to be examined. Total cost of replacement Amazon £12.99, keep old as emergency spare.

Cost of gas test fluid £6.00

Cost of replacing an empty gas cylinder £50.

The CO alarm has gone off, you dont know why. Buy another, yes its £30, but on a NB it is common to sit in the cabin and sleep in a different  area. They do not last forever. OP can put them side by side if one goes off intermittently he can use the new one as a test.

OP may not know that CO is an insidious clear gas that is same density as the air.

He may not know that boat batteries, the big batteries that are used in boats need to be maintained, and replaced every so often. 

Old neglected boat batteries can gas H2S  which smells like rotten eggs, other gasses which can set off the CO alarm.

These things are known by experienced boaters, but not by newbies 

Having witnessed intelligent people who have nearly blown themselves up on boats, I can assure you that there are many ways of killing yourself if you dont take a safety first approach.

 

Edited April 26 by LadyG

[Tony Brooks]

16 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Old neglected boat batteries can gas H2S  which smells like rotten eggs, other gasses which can set off the CO alarm.

 

I was about to post this - especially if the boat has solar charging. Has any bright metal tarnished inside the boat (sign of hydrogen sulphide)

[MtB]

2 hours ago, JackieG said:

Can't see any gloopy liquid anywhere. 

 

Can you see inside the pipe(s) then? 

 

Condensate forms very slowly inside LPG pipework. So slowly that it takes decades to accumulate. It is like engin oil or golden syrup in consistency and accumulates at the lowest points inside the pipe(s) and stops the gas from passing once it gets to fully fill the pipe. 

 

I've only ever seen it inside LPG installations more than about 25 years old.

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

6 minutes ago, MtB said:

I've only ever seen it inside LPG installations more than about 25 years old.

 

 

I have seen similar, but less gloopy, where a hire fleet had been draining part used cylinders into another part used cylinder and conclude it was probably a mixture of the stenching agent, condensation and residue of oily liquid left in the gas at the refineries. In this case it blocked what looked similar to a cigarette filter tip inside a gas fridge inlet connection.

[LadyG]

16 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I was about to post this - especially if the boat has solar charging. Has any bright metal tarnished inside the boat (sign of hydrogen sulphide)

You will be aware that my boat is extremely unusual, in some respects. The previous owner decided to use possibly tractor batteries to ballast and buffer batteries in the boat in 1999.

I discovered this in 2022 on a calm and peaceful night  I found a gassing battery, not noticed by the guy who had fitted new batteries. Lazy bugger.

Edited April 26 by LadyG