Boat insurer now requesting survey every 3 years!

[Hunter1]

Hi folks, 

 

My 50ft Liverpool narrowboat boat turned 30 last year, and upon renewal my current insurer will now require me to have it surveyed every 3 years! Rather rudely they think she's old now...

 

Obviously the cost of lifting her out and surveying her will practically double my premium - let alone the faff. 

 

I'm surprised by this, as she's rather a spring chicken in my eyes. And the thicknesses are excellent (previous owner was very diligent with hull maintenance).

 

Added to this, I've 2-packed the hull (inc. baseplate) - partly to lessen the frequency of lifting her out! Pulled her out after 3 years to check my work, and she could've gone straight back in. Thicknesses were identical, no pitting, etc. etc. 

 

Any advice? Or similar experiences? 

 

I have contents insurance with my cover, and would prefer the peace of mind of a reputable insurer (over the cheapest option to tick the box). I'm thinking I'll have to switch, so let me know if you had an insurer that doesn't think being born in the 90s is old!

 

H

[Alan de Enfield]

 

Haven Knox Johnson are "30 years and every 10 years afterwards".

They are not the cheapest but you get what you pay for, and, you save paying (maybe) £1000-£2000  for lift out and surveys every 3 years.

[Hunter1]

That sounds more reasonable! I definitely want to see her bottom within the next 10 years  Will look into them... Ta!

[Lady M]

Every three years sounds ridiculous to me.  I'm still upset that my insurer changed from every six years to every five as this no longer fits with blacking every other year.

[alan_fincher]

How old are you?  If old enough to use Saga, I believe they used to do a "we will only ever need one survey from you deal.

I'll qualify that by stating that I've never used it, and am not sure if it is still an option.

[Momac]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Haven Knox Johnson are "30 years and every 10 years afterwards".

They are not the cheapest but you get what you pay for, and, you save paying (maybe) £1000-£2000  for lift out and surveys every 3 years.

Actually I find Haven Knox Johnson to be competitive on premiums.

28 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

How old are you?  If old enough to use Saga, I believe they used to do a "we will only ever need one survey from you deal.

I'll qualify that by stating that I've never used it, and am not sure if it is still an option.

I thought Saga stopped offering boat insurance a few years ago? 

[wakey_wake]

1 hour ago, Hunter1 said:

I have contents insurance with my cover, and would prefer the peace of mind of a reputable insurer (over the cheapest option to tick the box). I'm thinking I'll have to switch, so let me know if you had an insurer that doesn't think being born in the 90s is old!

I was in the same boat 🙂 last year and ended up buying 3rd party, just to tick the box. 😞

More irksome was I discovered this shortly after blacking and re-launch.

 

It is coming up for renewal and I would prefer comprehensive-ish, but I'm not going to haul it out just for insurance.

[WulfNut]

45 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

How old are you?  If old enough to use Saga, I believe they used to do a "we will only ever need one survey from you deal.

I'll qualify that by stating that I've never used it, and am not sure if it is still an option.

Pretty sure saga gave up when Lloyds started demanding proof of profitable business model.  ( this maybe inaccurate it's from my memory which makes things up from time to time)

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, WulfNut said:

Pretty sure saga gave up when Lloyds started demanding proof of profitable business model.  ( this maybe inaccurate it's from my memory which makes things up from time to time)

 

Certainly Lloyds did that a few years ago and refused a trading licence to quite a lot of insurers and brokers (previously) offering boat insurance, when they considered their business plans unrealistic and the business unsustainable.

 

If SAGA as one of them I don't know

[Stroudwater1]

2 hours ago, Hunter1 said:

Hi folks, 

 

My 50ft Liverpool narrowboat boat turned 30 last year, and upon renewal my current insurer will now require me to have it surveyed every 3 years! Rather rudely they think she's old now...

 

Obviously the cost of lifting her out and surveying her will practically double my premium - let alone the faff. 

 

I'm surprised by this, as she's rather a spring chicken in my eyes. And the thicknesses are excellent (previous owner was very diligent with hull maintenance).

 

Added to this, I've 2-packed the hull (inc. baseplate) - partly to lessen the frequency of lifting her out! Pulled her out after 3 years to check my work, and she could've gone straight back in. Thicknesses were identical, no pitting, etc. etc. 

 

Any advice? Or similar experiences? 

 

I have contents insurance with my cover, and would prefer the peace of mind of a reputable insurer (over the cheapest option to tick the box). I'm thinking I'll have to switch, so let me know if you had an insurer that doesn't think being born in the 90s is old!

 

H

Which company are you with? GJW (name changed last year) were similar to Knox Johnson survey in 10 years. It’s actually 12 as we had a survey 2 years before when we bought the boat and that ticked their 30 year box at 28 years. 
 

Perhaps they have been reading Alan’s gloomy MIC postings? 

[Hunter1]

8 minutes ago, Stroudwater1 said:

Which company are you with? GJW (name changed last year) were similar to Knox Johnson survey in 10 years. It’s actually 12 as we had a survey 2 years before when we bought the boat and that ticked their 30 year box at 28 years. 
 

Perhaps they have been reading Alan’s gloomy MIC postings? 

 

Ah that does sound good - I also was surveyed 2 years ago (at 28 years), and I wanted it revalued for the insurance.

 

I'm with the creatively named "Insure4Boats"  

 

 

26 minutes ago, wakey_wake said:

I was in the same boat 🙂 last year and ended up buying 3rd party, just to tick the box. 😞

More irksome was I discovered this shortly after blacking and re-launch.

 

It is coming up for renewal and I would prefer comprehensive-ish, but I'm not going to haul it out just for insurance.

 

That was what I was thinking - if I can't get something reasonable I'll just do the cheapest... I'll look into GJW and Haven Knox Johnson and report back  

 

33 minutes ago, Momac said:

Actually I find Haven Knox Johnson to be competitive on premiums.

 

Good news, thanks!

 

1 hour ago, Lady M said:

Every three years sounds ridiculous to me.  I'm still upset that my insurer changed from every six years to every five as this no longer fits with blacking every other year.

 

So ridiculous, agreed... 

1 hour ago, alan_fincher said:

How old are you?  If old enough to use Saga, I believe they used to do a "we will only ever need one survey from you deal.

I'll qualify that by stating that I've never used it, and am not sure if it is still an option.

 

I'm not yet Saga-age  Though my joints might disagree...

[Tonka]

1 hour ago, alan_fincher said:

How old are you?  If old enough to use Saga, I believe they used to do a "we will only ever need one survey from you deal.

I'll qualify that by stating that I've never used it, and am not sure if it is still an option.

Saga stopped doing boat insurance 2 to 3 years ago. We used to be with them but moved to GJW when Saga stoppef

[Alan de Enfield]

Lloyds explanation ...................

 

There was a thread discussing the changes in 2021, where I posted an extract from a letter I received.

(It was also around that time that our 'overseas' owners started to have problems insuring GB based boats).

 

 

"For the first time in over 200 years in the history of Lloyds, special measure have been imposed demanding that all Syndicates writing Yacht insurance submit a sustainable business plan, in the absence of which they would be precluded from writing this class of business. This is because the market has spiralled down to a fundamentally unsustainable level of rates resulting in consistent attritional underwriting losses compounded by catastrophic (storm) claims. ........................................

............................. we continue to write yacht business but we are now instructed to increase rates. All insurers are following suit except those who are now precluded from writing yacht insurance ...............................

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 15 by Alan de Enfield

[WulfNut]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Lloyds explanation ...................

 

 

"For the first time in over 200 years in the history of Lloyds, special measure have been imposed demanding that all Syndicates writing Yacht insurance submit a sustainable business plan, in the absence of which they would be precluded from writing this class of business. This is because the market has spiralled down to a fundamentally unsustainable level of rates resulting in consistent attritional underwriting losses compounded by catastrophic (storm) claims. ........................................

............................. we continue to write yacht business but we are now instructed to increase rates. All insurers are following suit except those who are now precluded from writing yacht insurance ...............................

Yay my memory was correct ( don't let this fool you into believing it is any good for other info ) 

[frangar]

I have been looking at changing from GJW for a number of reasons....several insurers inc GJW now also require a full survey not just a hull survey which even my surveyor has said is ridiculous..I have pointed out that the BSS covers a lot of the "internal" systems but to no avail. It's not helped by Ripe buying out a few firms like GJW and Craftinsure so they all have the same policy. 

 

I have just had a new hull survey done at this docking and might well be changing to HKJ as they seemed the most sane....I also tried what used to be called Collidge but are now Brown & Brown....they initially said they wanted a Hull survey but have now also said they want a full survey. 

Edited April 15 by frangar

[wakey_wake]

24 minutes ago, Stroudwater1 said:

Which company are you with? GJW (name changed last year) were similar to Knox Johnson survey in 10 years.

I used GJW before they were being taken over by Ripe which seemed to be eating several insurers at once?

https://www.insurancetimes.co.uk/news/munich-re-completes-sale-of-marine-specialist-founded-in-1826/1454947.article

 

Website says "GJW Direct has been arranging marine insurance since 1826" but it sounds like it is no longer the same company?

Like Pyrex (no longer borosilicate glass, at least in some markets) and Bird's Custard powder (complete recipe change since I was little).

Buying names just looks like a way to trick people. 😞

 

On the bright side, while searching to remind myself of the name Ripe: https://www.compare-boat-insurance.co.uk/aboutus

but I didn't use that, I phoned GJW and got insured 🎉 for close enough to what I expected to pay.

 

Currently for steel boats 30+ years old they want (if I'm relaying this accurately) a full out-of-water survey with ultrasound readings showing hull thickness 4mm+ below the water line, made within the last ten years. That means my during-purchase survey is still good enough for them despite the boat now being >30 years old.

GJW rep also said they don't do 3rd party, and they don't do anti-theft insurance that isn't comprehensive.

 

Exactly what happened last year when I couldn't get comp insurance for survey reasons? I don't remember. Anyway it's done for this year.

The blacking was 2-pack, two years ago. When my confidence thins far enough I'll probably get a survey with the next blacking. 👍

[alan_fincher]

2 hours ago, Tonka said:

Saga stopped doing boat insurance 2 to 3 years ago. We used to be with them but moved to GJW when Saga stoppef

 

Fair enough.

I guess I should have checked before posting - my apologies!

[Stroudwater1]

1 hour ago, alan_fincher said:

 

Fair enough.

I guess I should have checked before posting - my apologies!

Posting on here often gets faster responses than looking for insurance companies especially when merged or finished - that can be quite a Saga? 

[DHutch]

As others have said, the solution is to change insurers. 

 

We're with Brown & Brown now, underwritten by Travelers, formerly Collidge & Partners and underwritten by Navigators & General. Before that we used Towergate who where underwritten by Navigators & General, who cover a large proportion of narrowboats and are part of Zurich.

 

In the past I've had a quote from Collidge and Towergate that where within 20p of each other. But the Towergate suddenly insisted on a full craft survey (as a condition of the underwriters) were Collidge only wanted a hull survey. Which is both what we had and what Towergate had asked for every time previously.

 

It's all a bit random. 

 

 

But shopping around and changing broker appears to work. 

[Slim]

Saga declined to re-insure my then 25 year old nb (no claims) 5 years ago . 

 

If you think insurers make you jump through hoops to insure a nb try insuring a 300 year old thatched cottage with wood burner. Apart from other things I'm now the proud owner of a chimney Battersea Power  Station would be jealous of.🤑🤑🤑

 

I finished off my boating years with Insure4boats (that's how they spelt it)

Edited April 19 by Slim
Added

[MtB]

17 minutes ago, Slim said:

Saga declined to re-insure my then 25 year old nb (no claims) 5 years ago . 

 

If you think insurers make you jump through hoops to insure a nb try insuring a 300 year old thatched cottage with wood burner. Apart from other things I'm now the proud owner of a chimney Battersea Power  Station would be jealous of.🤑🤑🤑

 

I finished off my boating years with Insure4boats (that's how they spelt it)

 

 

Seconded. The only insurer willing to issue cover on mine was NFU, in case you're still looking for cover.

 

ALL the other insurers advertising cover on thatched roof cottages actually declined to quote once I filled in their forms with my very routine (for 300 year old thatched cottages) details. 

 

And amazingly a few weeks after issuing cover, they actually sent a real life insurance assessor around to visit and check my forms were filled in correctly and honestly! 

[David Mack]

A friend of mine lived in a rented thatched cottage for a while. Managed to set light to the roof with the sparks from an angle grinder, while doing some work on his van. I wonder how the insurers address that risk.

[MtB]

27 minutes ago, David Mack said:

A friend of mine lived in a rented thatched cottage for a while. Managed to set light to the roof with the sparks from an angle grinder, while doing some work on his van. I wonder how the insurers address that risk.

 

Possibly ducked it, saying they hadn't been informed it was being rented! 

[Slim]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

 

Seconded. The only insurer willing to issue cover on mine was NFU, in case you're still looking for cover.

 

ALL the other insurers advertising cover on thatched roof cottages actually declined to quote once I filled in their forms with my very routine (for 300 year old thatched cottages) details. 

 

And amazingly a few weeks after issuing cover, they actually sent a real life insurance assessor around to visit and check my forms were filled in correctly and honestly! 

Weird,  Up to her death 3 months ago it was insured in my sister's name by NFU. It's a holiday home left by my parents in both our names. When I approached them they declined to transfer the cover to me.  They did say that if I transferred my main home insurance to them them they would CONSIDER an application but would not even accept a proposal prior too this happening.

 

The broker i'm currently going through (The Thatch Association???) has sent 2 A4 pages of  questions and conditions

Examples of questions       Thatch thickness, specific type of straw/reed. Max 30 day old full electrical report, Max 30 day old full survey of Thatch by "Master Thatcher. Survey of chimney and confirmation of full ss lining, chimney 1800mm above ridge no internal naked flames or candles, No  bonfires anywhere within garden, no barbecues within 10 metres of house. How far is the nearest fire station,is it full or p/t manned The list  goes on and on. No idea of the likely cost but an indicative figure of £1,500 has been mentioned.

.

[MtB]

18 minutes ago, Slim said:

The broker i'm currently going through (The Thatch Association???) has sent 2 A4 pages of  questions and conditions

Examples of questions       Thatch thickness, specific type of straw/reed. Max 30 day old full electrical report, Max 30 day old full survey of Thatch by "Master Thatcher. Survey of chimney and confirmation of full ss lining, chimney 1800mm above ridge no internal naked flames or candles, No  bonfires anywhere within garden, no barbecues within 10 metres of house. How far is the nearest fire station,is it full or p/t manned The list  goes on and on. No idea of the likely cost but an indicative figure of £1,500 has been mentioned.

 

I first got mine six years ago and I had about 8 pages of questions but not quite so demanding. Like the electrical inspection just needed to be in last five years. And no bonfires within 100m! Clearly unenforceable. My premium is however getting for £3k. £1,500 sounds like a bargain!